Post ETC What points adjustments do you think would help the Army?

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  • But then every army wants more than 1 bsb option and justify it in some similar half-baked way.

    I really don't think it is needed or helpful in EoS, will cause more problems than it solves, and doesn't add to the feel of the army.

    Maybe this might be something for an auxiliary book once the LAB is done.
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  • That is fair Dan, but I am not sure what problems those options would create. Personally, I like the notion of an Inquisitor BSB.... it would help the choice see some more play, and would be a cool piece for modeling options. Or perhaps the Prelate on the altar of battle being able to be the BSB instead of just the General, really cool centre piece option for modelling there.

    I also think other armies already have some pretty broad options for BSB too. The HE BSB with wizard honour or queensguard honour (or others) and can ride a chariot, a flying chariot, eagle, horse or Griffon, the SE can put it on a Stubborn Monstrous infantry guy, or an elf mounted in a variety of ways... ID can go with a big Taurukh or a little dwarf who can be either an unbreakable fyre-slayer or ride a flying bull, OnG can choose to be on foot or a wyvern, boar or chariot mounted options, Goblins or Orcs, and the Great Green Idol, SA can have it be the Cuatl general, a Big Saurus, or even a skink riding a triceratops. To be fair KoE might like some more variety too, but they have a collection of issues I don't need to get into. ;)

    Those are just the choices I can think of in armies I own... EoS does get our BSB as a free upgrade on the marshall, which is cool. That marshall can be on foot or on a horse, or god help us, a pegasus. But that is it. No option to make it 18" (towering presence), no magic, no high resistance option, no Monstrous mount, no unbreakable fire dude. I am not suggesting a BSB on the Steam tank for instance. :)

    I think that offering a second or third Hero type option, but paying the 50pt tax every other army pays is a fairly solid and balanced point to start discussions from in anticipation of the LAB process.
  • I stand by my claims that it isn't background driven and is just wishlisting that isn't driven by coherent/holistic feel of the army.

    I also think it is a terrible choice of priority for the LAB.

    *Shrug* but it is nothing to do with me. Just my view.
    Ultimately I don't care as much as others as I have 6 armies: I can always play one of the others if I don't like the EoS LAB when it gets done :)
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  • I agree with both of you.

    A priest BSB, would be a really poor design. When we do LAB i want our army to have a nice backgroudn and fluff. Unit and rules, should be story not only game effect. BSB is lot more logicial for a marshal. As are order.

    But in same time i agree with Gaius, that we have an issue of flexibility with our army, and BSB is one part of the issue. I will come back on this in a long topic. But maybe can we solve this flexibility issue, By other way ?

    The only exception when i feel; BSB on priest would look good, is on the altar. I feel like its already a kind of BSB by itself. But if BSB on altar for background look cool. not sure, its good for balance.
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  • It is a bit of wish-listing for sure, but the LAB process is the only time when we get to express a little wish-listing. :)

    And I don't usually like to pick a fight, but isn't the LAB process the time to discuss what the theme and or holistic feel of the army is?

    We were talking points adjustments in this thread. And for me, I don't think adding BSB options makes any sense for the upcoming adjustment.

    However, for LAB down the road? Why not? Players of other armies already ask why we get a 'free' BSB upgrade... so the BSB and options around it are fair game for discussion at LAB time I would think.

    As it stands now for the record, the design process and LAB doesn't have anything to do with me directly either. :) As an ACS guy they will ask me to ask you, the players of the EoS faction, for your opinions and feedback. I will try to start and encourage those conversations when the time comes.

    For me personally, I am torn about the 'Coherent/holistic' feel of the army as it stands now. I have played Empire for 20+ years in 9th and in the game not to be named before it. Only in the last edition of that game did monstrous cavalry and wizard wagons appear. Most days I still can't believe I use the damn things, but as the army is currently composed in 9th age, they are powerful pieces in synergy / holistic combat approach of the army, and have displaced earlier elements in my lists and in many local Meta's. Gone are my halfling scouts, useful and powerful knights, useful artillery, and my long range first shot with black powder. Rules change, feel changes, meta's change. We can't stand still. So that is all good in the end.

    If wish-listing, I want BSB options, IG with weapon-master or at least a shield to help with shooting attacks on the Great weapons. I want a reason to take knights in groups other than minimum 5 or maximum 15 with half my heroes in the unit. I would like more reliable black powder war-machines. (I like the rocket battery mechanics but think ascribing that mechanic to a Rocket launcher is silly, and would make more sense for the volley gun, while volley gun mechanics make more sense almost for a battery of Rockets). I would like the supporting charge and counter charge mechanics cleaned up, or made useful... they are cool on paper and a pain in the butt to get value out of if your opponent has a clue. I would prefer the core troops get cheaper, and the buff items get more expensive, to stop 'taxing' our troops for abilities they can't always access, but still pay fair points for the buffs when they are there. I would like the steam tank to work more like the ID train (and now the hate mail starts!). I want more wacky magic items. Why not?

    Most of all, I would like to hear wacky, serious and all the other kinds of suggestions, for rules, magic items and new unit types that OTHER people have been thinking about for years too. I don't want us to limit ourselves with too much self censoring about whether or not the current background favours one feel or another, not before we have that discussion anyway.

    Cheers ~ Michael (Gaius Marius)
  • Gaius Marius wrote:

    I don't want us to limit ourselves with too much self censoring about whether or not the current background favours one feel or another
    Isn't this the key driver of LABs?
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  • Yes it is a limiter in the sense that background is supposed to help drive the LAB process, but they are also supposed to be mutually supporting (I thought).

    For example, Is an Inquisitor supposed to be a) just an assassin? Or is he b) supposed to be a slayer of the unclean or holy, or c) the leader of an officially sanctioned purge or crusade? Currently he plays like a). You can kit him out to target Magic users or deamon-ish things and make him fit under b). Option c) however may already be (or may become) a perfectly valid part of the background. In case of c), an option to be the general or the BSB would be really fluffy and really fit.

    Is suggesting this just wish-listing? Or is it a valid discussion for the LAB process, including background?
  • @Gaius Marius IIRC the inquisitor is mentioned in the EoS background that ACS have access to.
    I didn't make a record of it and can no longer view it so I can't check.
    Saddest part about no longer being staff is not getting to read all the cool background stuff :(
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  • The hero type is mentioned. Briefly :)
    To paraphrase:

    The Inquisitors are a continent-wide body of hunters administered from the Office of the Leading Prelate himself. They have arresting and prosecutorial powers through the church sanctioned courts.

    I hope that doesn't break any rules sharing that paraphrased version.

    I think there may be some design space there. :)
  • Gaius Marius wrote:

    The hero type is mentioned. Briefly :)
    To paraphrase:

    The Inquisitors are a continent-wide body of hunters administered from the Office of the Leading Prelate himself. They have arresting and prosecutorial powers through the church sanctioned courts.

    I hope that doesn't break any rules sharing that paraphrased version.

    I think there may be some design space there. :)
    Right :thumbup:

    Me personally, reading "The Inquisitors are a continent-wide body of hunters administered from the Office of the Leading Prelate himself. They have arresting and prosecutorial powers through the church sanctioned courts.", I would never think "this guy should have a bsb option".
    To me it suggests at least 10 different design directions first.

    But I doubt I will be a designer on the book, so.... *shrugs*
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