Community Brainstorm - Goblin Design Principles for LAB

This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our Cookie Policy.

The latest issue of the 9th Scroll is here! You can read all about it in the news.

Our beta phase is finally over. Download The Ninth Age: Fantasy Battles, 2nd Edition now!

  • Hello there !


    I think that some of you should have had problems with goblins in their life... 8|

    Before ninth age I used to play full goblins armies.And it was very pleasant for me because I had to struggle vs my army much more than vs my opponent's one.

    But since Ninth age, playing a full goblins army become less and less fun and interesting.

    "Goblins rules are too complex" it seems.

    I think that you're kidding me ?

    Have you seen the new demons' rules ???

    Last week I had a tourny with my dwarves and I fight vs a demonic army where every unit had a special rule on it's own. It was really awful to play this game...

    So I really don't want that my beloved Goblins become less strong than a small rat, a gnoblar or a skink. No never...
  • xaby86 wrote:

    I'm going to put together everything I've suggested for the goblins to see it all together.

    Goblins:
    Adv4 March8 Dis5
    PV1 Df2 Res 3 SA0
    At1 Of2 S2 PA1 Ag3(or 4)

    Special rules:
    - scoring
    - strong in weakness: The unit wins +1Dis and may repeat to hit rolls while fighting on the flank or rear of an enemy unit. (Perhaps this could also be used for shooting, this would serve to not place TW in a horrible place for S2 but then bow S3 becomes much better...). Well, see if not later the pirate tribes)
    - simulated flight (I love this rule in goblins, imagine them running and then getting together while laughing)

    (Feel free to make more categories to balance)

    You can equip it with:
    - bow
    - spear
    - PW
    - TW
    - shield
    - light armor

    Choose one of the following:
    - Nets: Same as now but in addition unit A) must repeat Dis when reorganizing after combat or B) -X to its Dis when reorganizing after combat (X is equal to the RC of the affected unit's ranks) let's remember that it can affect our unit. Perhaps -1S could be substituted for Distracting.
    - Shady fit. (let's suppose it's the same)
    - Mad git (also)

    You can choose one:
    - poisoned attacks
    - vanguard
    - simulated flight (if this is too strong from base, it's okay to have it as an option)
    - light troops (Max 20 models)

    Chief and King
    Attributes the same as now.

    Special rules:
    Tribal Guide: The chiefs and kings are the smartest of the tribe and have learned tactics to perform in the environments where they live and order their warriors through loud shrieks.A model with this rule must declare what type of tribe it belongs to, this gives it some rules that it shares with its unit as long as it remains within it.
    - Cave Tribe: Strider (ruins) wins the Ambush rule if he is to enter with a minimum unit of goblins. He can't ride a wolf.
    - Forest Tribe: Strider (forests) hard target if they are inside a forest.
    - Tribe of steppes: devastating charge (+1S and BF, unit can't carry poisoned attacks) This represents that the goblins don't have as many resources in the huge steppe to make poison, but they are more warlike, I thought a little bit about making wolf units with S4 goblins)
    - Desert Tribe: (I'm short of ideas for them) Only on foot.
    - Swamp Tribe: Strider (water) within the water elements unit has Distracting
    - Pirate tribes: +1S when shooting with TW. O

    Ok, I'm done, I think I've lost my head hahaha.



    I think those are some good ideas. But some comments:

    a) Simulated flight requires high discipline. I don't think it fits Goblins.

    b) I think combining some specialties should be avoided: no Poison+ShadyGits, no Vanguard+MadGits. Those would provide too much synergy with each other, increasing price and making one of them alone unattractive.

    c) I think such detailed rules for terrain type striders is too much text for far too few influence on the table. Maybe something for an auxiliary book "Goblin Nations"(or whatever name)?

    I very much like the idea of Nets providing a small but flavourful additional benefit if in flank or rear. If a army wide rule for Goblins in flanks is not such a good idea, maybe the specialties could be slightly better in flanks. Maybe even spread this to others? ShadyGits getting better if in flank?

    The post was edited 1 time, last by arwaker ().

  • arwaker wrote:

    b) I think combining some specialties should be avoided: no Poison+ShadyGits, no Vanguard+MadGits. Those would provide too much synergy with each other, increasing price and making one of them alone unattractive.
    Why no vanguard + mad gits? We have that now...
    Whats to OP with shady gits and Poison? Your poison hits cant be lethal so there's nothing "crazy good" about it. 1 or 2 Str 3 AP0 wounds is not going to do much.

    the only 2 things i would make "take only one choice" is the gits. mad or shady but not both. I don't think that would be to strong ether

    My ideal Goblin set up: the-ninth-age.com/community/in…ostID=1265934#post1265934
  • About getting a bonus when charging in the flank/rear, I guess it’s fluffy, but it’s not even going to happen, and if it does, it’s bc the opponent is letting you do it. With M4 you are not charging anyone in the flank/rear.

    I think the best option is to unify goblins into an unique profile, with Strength and Toughness 3.And then give them a lot of options of equipment (bows 1ppm, spear and shield or just shield)and special stuff like shady gits, Mad gits, Nets, poison, etc.

    Right now it’s extremely confusing, specially the Forest goblins, because they always have poison except when they ride a big spider. It doesn’t make any sense. Or they have poison or they don’t, but the fact that depending on the mount they gain/lose rules is wrong.

    PD: I just thought about giving Forest goblins a 6+ ward save because of the war Paints? They go to battle naked like Ferals, it would fit them and it would be really cool. Or maybe it’s just because I have my Forest goblins painted that way...
  • Rubert wrote:

    About getting a bonus when charging in the flank/rear, I guess it’s fluffy, but it’s not even going to happen, and if it does, it’s bc the opponent is letting you do it. With M4 you are not charging anyone in the flank/rear.
    Not on their own at any rate.

    Rubert wrote:

    I think the best option is to unify goblins into an unique profile, with Strength *edit* 2 and Toughness 3.And then give them a lot of options of equipment (bows 1ppm, spear and shield or just shield)and special stuff like shady gits, Mad gits, Nets, poison, etc.
    I agree, St2 to make the unique and just give them all the available options and let players pick which ones they want.

    Rubert wrote:

    Right now it’s extremely confusing, specially the Forest goblins, because they always have poison except when they ride a big spider. It doesn’t make any sense. Or they have poison or they don’t, but the fact that depending on the mount they gain/lose rules is wrong.
    Forest Goblin Raiders do have Poisoned Attacks, it's just not listed on the Offensive profile as it isn't listed on regular forest goblins either.
  • theunwantedbeing wrote:

    I agree, St2 to make the unique and just give them all the available options and let players pick which ones they want.
    I don't think we'd ever not see poison attacks.
    Off 2 Str 2 vs Def 2-5 Res 3 goes from a 0.166 probability of wounding (ignoring Arm/AP) to 0.277 probability: a 5/3x damage multiplier.
    Off 2 Str 2 vs Def 2-5 Res 6 goes from 0.083 probability of wounding (ignoring Arm/AP) to 0.25 probability: an 8/3x damage multiplier.
    And against Chosen, it goes up by 3.5x ...
  • theunwantedbeing wrote:

    Rubert wrote:

    About getting a bonus when charging in the flank/rear, I guess it’s fluffy, but it’s not even going to happen, and if it does, it’s bc the opponent is letting you do it. With M4 you are not charging anyone in the flank/rear.
    Not on their own at any rate.

    Rubert wrote:

    I think the best option is to unify goblins into an unique profile, with Strength *edit* 2 and Toughness 3.And then give them a lot of options of equipment (bows 1ppm, spear and shield or just shield)and special stuff like shady gits, Mad gits, Nets, poison, etc.
    I agree, St2 to make the unique and just give them all the available options and let players pick which ones they want.

    Rubert wrote:

    Right now it’s extremely confusing, specially the Forest goblins, because they always have poison except when they ride a big spider. It doesn’t make any sense. Or they have poison or they don’t, but the fact that depending on the mount they gain/lose rules is wrong.
    Forest Goblin Raiders do have Poisoned Attacks, it's just not listed on the Offensive profile as it isn't listed on regular forest goblins either.
    Forest goblin raiders have poison attack, yes, but not the crew of the Gargantula, what creates a mess. So a Forest goblin on foot gets poison, a goblin riding a “small” spider gets poison, but when riding a bigger spider lose it? That’s confusing and unnecessary.
  • So... after whining, which is not the most constructive way to participate, I have to admit it. (Even if I think it could help anyway in showing the limit not to be exceeded). I think that many defects in the goblin design came back to the "good ol'days". In fact I think that many rules used for Vermin Swarm should be devoted to goblins. And I really think that if the results of all those discussions don't pleased me, I will play my goblins as a Vermin swarm army...

    This said, here is what I'm thinking goblins should be TADAAAAM !

    Cunning, treacherous, vicious opponents (at least).

    Why not giving them a special rule (or an artifact) forcing their opponents to deploy let's say +1D3 more units (once) at any moment during the deployment phase to represent their efficiency in scouting ?

    Why not giving them off 2 (what they already have) def 3 (because a coward knows how to hide among his peers) and lightning reflexes because of their cunningness, so they naturally know how and where to strike to hurt a foe ?

    About Discipline... discipline of 5/6 is a legacy of the past. I think that either we keep this absurdly low discipline level but we have to add a rule like the one the Vermin swarm have (about ranks) either we increase base discipline of all goblins to 6 or better 7 (this way we could make good use of our light troops for example). Commanders will always be useful with their discipline level of 8 (and perhaps strictly limited to 8 ?)

    Merging all the races could be a good thing if it's well done, that is without taking away the few options that we have. But I much more prefer to have an army book dedicated entirely and solely for the goblin army.

    To have more benefits than others in charging the flanks or rear of an enemy unit could be a good thing too, even if with move 4" it doesn't happen very often... but fortunately, we have wolves... :love:

    And don't say me that in implementing those very few rules it would add something to the complexity level of the army... have you ever seen the daemonic rulebook ?
  • xaby86 wrote:

    I'm going to put together everything I've suggested for the goblins to see it all together.

    Goblins:
    Adv4 March8 Dis5
    PV1 Df2 Res 3 SA0
    At1 Of2 S2 PA1 Ag3(or 4)


    STR2, AP1 or STR3 AP0. It will work out as a buff to Forest Goblins due to poison, but otherwise won't matter much, so I wonder if there's a reason to make people remember a new profile?

    Special rules:
    - scoring
    - strong in weakness: The unit wins +1Dis and may repeat to hit rolls while fighting on the flank or rear of an enemy unit. (Perhaps this could also be used for shooting, this would serve to not place TW in a horrible place for S2 but then bow S3 becomes much better...). Well, see if not later the pirate tribes)


    It will come into play so rarely that the rule is basically just clutter. Sorry


    - simulated flight (I love this rule in goblins, imagine them running and then getting together while laughing)
    We already have that as a special item and on raiders. That's enough rly




    Chief and King
    Attributes the same as now.

    Special rules:
    Tribal Guide: The chiefs and kings are the smartest of the tribe and have learned tactics to perform in the environments where they live and order their warriors through loud shrieks.A model with this rule must declare what type of tribe it belongs to, this gives it some rules that it shares with its unit as long as it remains within it.
    - Cave Tribe: Strider (ruins) wins the Ambush rule if he is to enter with a minimum unit of goblins. He can't ride a wolf.
    - Forest Tribe: Strider (forests) hard target if they are inside a forest.
    - Tribe of steppes: devastating charge (+1S and BF, unit can't carry poisoned attacks) This represents that the goblins don't have as many resources in the huge steppe to make poison, but they are more warlike, I thought a little bit about making wolf units with S4 goblins)
    - Desert Tribe: (I'm short of ideas for them) Only on foot.
    - Swamp Tribe: Strider (water) within the water elements unit has Distracting
    - Pirate tribes: +1S when shooting with TW. O

    Ok, I'm done, I think I've lost my head hahaha.

    Too much complexity. Save it for an all-goblin auxilliary

  • A small thought. Many seem to like the idea to give goblins some sort of bonus when fighting in the rear or flank, but others feel that this is wasted since getting a flank charge with a big unit of goblins is so rare.

    Maybe a solution could be to apply this bonus (whatever it is), to all goblins in a combat as long as long as at least one of your units is engaged in the flank or rear. So if you charge your raiders into the flank and your bus into the front, both get the bonus. The reasoning being that the goblins feel in control as long as they know they have the enemy surrounded or at a disadvantage.

    Could result in some neat synergy I think.

    Rules Clarification

    Lord of the Hobby


    Empire of Sonnstahl Blog, including links to my other blogs
    The 9th Wiki, a community wiki for the official 9th Age background
    T9A: Skirmish Campaigns
  • Mad 'At wrote:

    A small thought. Many seem to like the idea to give goblins some sort of bonus when fighting in the rear or flank, but others feel that this is wasted since getting a flank charge with a big unit of goblins is so rare.

    Maybe a solution could be to apply this bonus (whatever it is), to all goblins in a combat as long as long as at least one of your units is engaged in the flank or rear. So if you charge your raiders into the flank and your bus into the front, both get the bonus. The reasoning being that the goblins feel in control as long as they know they have the enemy surrounded or at a disadvantage.

    Could result in some neat synergy I think.
    Maybe

    Still sounds more VS than goblins to me. Wouldn't want to be charged points for the ability personally
  • Maybe a functional idea, but doesn't feel right. The Gobs in the front are still fu**ed and they will feel like that. Such a rule would imply a high level of teamwork and cooperation in their minds. The dudes in the front sacrifice themselves to give the flanking dudes chances to stay flanking dudes. It just doesn't feel like being Goblin mindset.
  • I really don't like the idea of a flank / rear bonus; This will make them even more niche and less played.

    For a fast Demon this might be a tiny bit cool (not a much played DL choice if I am not mistaken). But for an infantry block it's not interesting at all.

    Let's think about other aspects that sneaky-ness could have...!
    Booooooaaaaaarsssss .... Chaaaaaaaaaaaaaarge !!!
  • Rubert wrote:

    theunwantedbeing wrote:

    Rubert wrote:

    Right now it’s extremely confusing, specially the Forest goblins, because they always have poison except when they ride a big spider. It doesn’t make any sense. Or they have poison or they don’t, but the fact that depending on the mount they gain/lose rules is wrong.
    Forest Goblin Raiders do have Poisoned Attacks, it's just not listed on the Offensive profile as it isn't listed on regular forest goblins either.
    Forest goblin raiders have poison attack, yes, but not the crew of the Gargantula, what creates a mess. So a Forest goblin on foot gets poison, a goblin riding a “small” spider gets poison, but when riding a bigger spider lose it? That’s confusing and unnecessary.
    ...the Gargantula crew are forest goblins, so get poisoned attacked.
    As before, it's not listed in the special rules in their offensive profile just like all the other racial rules aren't for any orcs or goblins in the army.

    Pellegrim wrote:

    I really don't like the idea of a flank / rear bonus; This will make them even more niche and less played.
    I don't think it would, it'll just mean players try a bit harder to flank with them as opposed to right now where we all apparently just never try due to it allegedly being obviously impossible.

    The only bonus I think makes any sense is a discipline buff though.

    As for other "sneakiness" effects.
    A banner or upgrade that lets the unit scout or be deployed inside/ambush from a terrain feature/board edge would fit the sneakiness bill.
  • theunwantedbeing wrote:

    ...the Gargantula crew are forest goblins, so get poisoned attacked.As before, it's not listed in the special rules in their offensive profile just like all the other racial rules aren't for any orcs or goblins in the army.
    I've not yet played T9A full rules yet, but using rules-as-written there's no way the Gargantula crew get poisoned attacks at the moment. I am sure that's been ruled a bunch of times on this forum too.

    Forest Goblin race does not grant Poison attacks, it's only as an upgrade on the "Goblins" unit entry and "Goblin Raiders" unit entry (& some characters).

    Forest Goblin Witchdoctor doesn't get Poison attacks either btw.
    My gaming website: agoners.wordpress.com
    My gaming twitter: Agoners Gaming
    I currently can play for T9A: Orcs & Goblins, Empire of Sonnstahl (QS only)
  • Remy77077 wrote:

    theunwantedbeing wrote:

    ...the Gargantula crew are forest goblins, so get poisoned attacked.As before, it's not listed in the special rules in their offensive profile just like all the other racial rules aren't for any orcs or goblins in the army.
    I've not yet played T9A full rules yet, but using rules-as-written there's no way the Gargantula crew get poisoned attacks at the moment. I am sure that's been ruled a bunch of times on this forum too.
    Forest Goblin race does not grant Poison attacks, it's only as an upgrade on the "Goblins" unit entry and "Goblin Raiders" unit entry (& some characters).

    Forest Goblin Witchdoctor doesn't get Poison attacks either btw.
    ....okay, I've clearly banged my head on something. I was reading that it gave them poison.

    All Forest Goblins definitely should be given Poisoned attacks as a racial trait.