Point adjustments in the patch - sepculation

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  • Point adjustments in the patch - sepculation

    I've seen some threads like this in the other sub forums so I thought I would start a similiar one for us.

    The patch is coming in early december and we know it'll bring some point adjustments. We're currently a high tier army, so we can expect larger point increaser than decreases.

    I though we could just do some speculation for fun. Show me where I'm wrong:

    Hunter
    Will definitively go up. They're powerful and an auto-include. Common mvp probably.

    Great Khan
    Maybe a point drop, but most people will still skip him. I don't know how much the team is aware of the issues with him and the fact that he'll still be left out even if he's cheaper.

    Khan and Shaman
    Autoincludes of course, but aren't mages and BSBs always? No change in points.

    Core
    Have no idea. See no reason for points changes here.

    Tusker cavalry
    Points drop. No one uses'em. Maybe people would if they were cheaper.

    Mercenary veterans
    Probably points drop, I hope. I love mercs.

    Rock Aurochs
    Another extremely common unit, and powerful to boot. Point increase.

    Mammoth
    Points drop again. But I don't know if it'll help, since bruisers are the more popular core choice. Maybe a simultaneous points drop for mercs and tusker cav will increase the popularity of the mammoth?
  • Jadeeyes wrote:

    Too many things have to be CHANGED and revisited, rathen that point changed. Think of DL and WOTDG. They are NEW codexex, completely revisited and now they are OP. We just to have to wait until the rules guys will SEE that some things have to be implemented and changed for OK and other armies.
    Well, the LAB will come sooner or later if course. But that's then and it's not the point of this thread.

    I don't think either of those are op. I've heard people complain about ud mainly. I play dl regularly and never felt that they were op. I've absolutely crushed wodg. Would hardly be possible if they were op.
  • thia is my list:
    • Trolleater +10
    • Headhunter -10
    • Firebrand -5
    • RottenJaw -5
    • Khagada's Legacy -10
    • Pennant of the Great Grass Sky +10
    • Lygur’s Tongue +5
    • Auroch Charm -10
    • Rampagers chains -10
    • Wrestler belt*
    redesign because this item couse to much problems
    • Great Khan -10
    i think we cannot except more drops here because he will be to cheap, rather than I would like to see more freedom in building
    • Mammoth Hunter base +10
    • Mammoth Hunter mounts -10 or more
    • Mammoth Hunter Iron fist +10
    • Leader of the pack +10
    • Mammoth Hunter Hunting Spear +10 (crossbow no change)
    I guess most common build will be 30-40pts expensive and other Hunter builds no change
    • Merc and Tuskers - point drop
    • Extra Tribesmens -4
    • Auroch +20
    • Scratapult -5
    • Extra Yetis -5
    • Giant Iron fist -5
    • Giant GW +10
    • Frost Mammoth -5
    OK ACS, PT :OK:
    Animosity Poland Team :butchery:
  • I don't think the Rock Auroch needs a cost increase, just the mammoth & tusker cav getting a points decrease.

    Auroch is actually not as effective as ppl make out unless ppl let it happen. Super effective for zoning, but in a fight he has one incredible round of combat then is hittable.

    Hard to hide from all the shooting in tournaments and I regularly lose them in games. Frenzy is a huge disadvantage, but only good players use it in my experience.
  • Jadeeyes wrote:

    Too many things have to be CHANGED and revisited, rathen that point changed. Think of DL and WOTDG. They are NEW codexex, completely revisited and now they are OP. We just to have to wait until the rules guys will SEE that some things have to be implemented and changed for OK and other armies.
    Arent OK in the same tier as those OP armies?
  • Wwwhmm I would say no they are not. OK is an old codex compared to these new ones, filled with new rules, tricks, new spells and COMPLETELY re-worked, whilst OK and many others are still the same units, same magic paths, same ol same ol like in the second edition of the 9th age. Nothing changes, no new units, no new strategies etc. Lately OK players have used all the same strategies and almost the same lists. Means something has to be changed to add variety.

    One shaman general( you cannot field two too expensive)
    ONe Khan bsb ( NO great khans whatsoever, too expensive)
    ONe or two mammoth hunter on foot (very strong and cheap piece)
    Bruisers or tribesmen
    rock aurochs
    almost no warmachines, maybe a cannon or two
    tusker cavalry or frozen mammooth
    Bombardiers
    one or two tigers

    Variety= zero
    Gnoblars not used
    Predictable gameplay, either stay back and shoot or go further and charge. End of the story.
    Ac 3= hope that I will hit with more than 50% of the hits. REst is history (Str 6 or plus).

    We need to be revamped, maybe a magic path that actually helps in close combat and NOT with Str, but with hitting or shooting.
    Maybe a gnoblar shaman or something so we can field more than one wizard.
    Bombardiers in core troops.
    Maybe one or two new units to add variety, maybe some shock troops OR ambushing ones.
    just check other codexes and we can find ideas.
    Over and out.
  • Jadeeyes wrote:

    Ac 3= hope that I will hit with more than 50% of the hits. REst is history (Str 6 or plus).

    We need to be revamped, maybe a magic path that actually helps in close combat and NOT with Str, but with hitting or shooting.
    Maybe a gnoblar shaman or something so we can field more than one wizard.
    ^THIS
    Not hitting is indeed a huge drawback for a CC army. I'm okay with Ogres being hit easily (AW), so something that raise just OS.
  • Here we go again :) I honestly can't stand the whining @Jadeeyes

    We are in high tier according to official sources. And besides, changes other than point adjustments does not happen until the fab. I've told you this before.

    I also am getting tired of the arguments that we need to hit better. Not being great at hitting stuff is our official weakness as I understand it. It's not going to change. Also, we have impact hits and stomps that hit automatically and you can take the rod of battle if you want to.

    Ogres are in a good place performance wise. If you're always losing with them, it's probably you and not the army.

    I think there's way too much negativity on the forum when it comes to this stuff.
    This game is amazingly balanced and we really do not have anything to complain about. I see way too much whining.
  • RobertR wrote:

    I also am getting tired of the arguments that we need to hit better. Not being great at hitting stuff is our official weakness as I understand it. It's not going to change. Also, we have impact hits and stomps that hit automatically and you can take the rod of battle if you want to.
    Not really. Our AW is not being able to dodge as defence (and I'd say it's true). About not being good at hitting it wasn't in the ASAW survey, our AS should be grinding (a bit difficult with Re4 and nearly no AS in most troops, also with less ranks than most troops in the game breaking is very easy) and first turn damage (impact hits really do help, but being able to actually hit on the charge or first turn of combat would be useful).

    RobertR wrote:

    Ogres are in a good place performance wise
    Agreed =)
  • Merc Vets are too expensive, way too much. Very overpriced. And their pistols too... 24pts x model is insane. The only problem with Hunters is the Trolleater build imo as it should cost way more, the second hunter is fine however.
    "Having been on both the giving and receiving end of this lore: if a game of warhammer is in some ways like a game of chess, then a successful death spell feels like the equivalent of throwing a brick at the chess board."
  • New

    RobertR wrote:

    Here we go again :) I honestly can't stand the whining @Jadeeyes

    We are in high tier according to official sources. And besides, changes other than point adjustments does not happen until the fab. I've told you this before.

    I also am getting tired of the arguments that we need to hit better. Not being great at hitting stuff is our official weakness as I understand it. It's not going to change. Also, we have impact hits and stomps that hit automatically and you can take the rod of battle if you want to.

    Ogres are in a good place performance wise. If you're always losing with them, it's probably you and not the army.

    I think there's way too much negativity on the forum when it comes to this stuff.
    This game is amazingly balanced and we really do not have anything to complain about. I see way too much whining.
    Agree with this. Ogres are in a good place in my view too. As I understand it hitting enemies and dodging hits are supposed to be weaknesses, hence all the automatic hits from stomps and impact hits. Also the reason why we are supposed to have high res, high hp. This is also the reason we don't get magic that rerolls hits, buffs offensive skill/defensive skill, it would really break the army to get OS5 bruisers reliably. I've lately been playing crown of the wizard king and hoping to roll divination or cosmology ;) Last two games I've played with my ogres I've won due to opponent conceding on turn 3-4. I can't remember having a big loss with ogres in a long time.

    Orion wrote:

    Merc Vets are too expensive, way too much. Very overpriced. And their pistols too... 24pts x model is insane. The only problem with Hunters is the Trolleater build imo as it should cost way more, the second hunter is fine however.
    My understanding is that currently Merc vets are more popular than tusker riders. Probably because tuskers are not very good after the mega nerf from Hellfist times (minimum 2 -> 3, more expensive, slower, no parry). Pistols might be too expensive as melee builds with plate armor and ironfists seem better. Agree on hunter, mostly the problem is 2+, 4++ parry build.
    It's okay, it has frenzy.

    Just Flank It © KoE - Tactics 101
  • New

    Orion wrote:

    Merc Vets are too expensive, way too much. Very overpriced. And their pistols too... 24pts x model is insane. The only problem with Hunters is the Trolleater build imo as it should cost way more, the second hunter is fine however.
    Yeah, I'm hoping for a point drop on the mercs this patch. I love mercs, but they eat up points fast. I never do pistols anymore though. The shooting isn't good enough for them to be worth it. I go close combat, so always plate armour and then either iron fists or halberds. Swiftstride or lethal strike for the second battle scarred ability usually.


    Jomppexx wrote:

    Agree with this. Ogres are in a good place in my view too. As I understand it hitting enemies and dodging hits are supposed to be weaknesses, hence all the automatic hits from stomps and impact hits. Also the reason why we are supposed to have high res, high hp. This is also the reason we don't get magic that rerolls hits, buffs offensive skill/defensive skill, it would really break the army to get OS5 bruisers reliably. I've lately been playing crown of the wizard king and hoping to roll divination or cosmology ;) Last two games I've played with my ogres I've won due to opponent conceding on turn 3-4. I can't remember having a big loss with ogres in a long time.
    I think the easiest way to hit better is taking the rod of battle. Make the other guy burn his dispel dice on wrath of god, then make your bruisers hit on 3+ :)

    I don't always take it though it's not always such a huge deal if you consistently get the charge.
  • New

    Orion wrote:

    Merc Vets are too expensive, way too much. Very overpriced. And their pistols too... 24pts x model is insane. The only problem with Hunters is the Trolleater build imo as it should cost way more, the second hunter is fine however.
    Totally agree with this. Imo the only build that is OP is the Trolleater+wrestler. 2nd standard build (death Cheater+spinesplitter) is not autoinclude in my opinion.

    Concerning Rock Auroch, they have serious drawbacks (they have to charge+ Frenzy), so I don't see why they should be nerfed.