Pinned Undying Dynasties LAB Brainstorm

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  • nomrakram wrote:

    Here is evidence of justification:
    Homebrew fluff isn't what the project makes decisions off of, so it's not a justification.

    nomrakram wrote:

    now.. what is your argument, that the UD, a race of sleeping loyalist professional army people with a god king - which can only walk around while a wizard is present (a master of the pre courser arts to necromancy), is unable to take a freshly fallen professional soldier and bind it to the god king's will??
    This is an easy one. UD doesn't have or use necromancy. They never have. If you go read the UD full army book you will have a better grasp of their fluff, which (love it or hate it) is the only thing that matters in the design of the book. Every unit and mechanic is bound by the fluff and must adhere to it. but in short:

    Thousands of years ago when the great pharoah Phatep, who sat at the right hand of the gods and was their most beloved servant, was slain by Setesh and his cabal. His wife Nepheret fought to avenge him, and while she destroyed his armies and scattered his cabal she was mortally wounded. Setesh, as she lay dying, revealed he had used the power of her husbands heart to usurp the underworld and become it's god. Realizing she would be stuck forever under the power of Setesh, Nepheret cried out to the gods of Naptesh for deliverance. In response, the gods of Naptesh forever sealed the gates of the underworld (and Setesh with it). Any napteshi soul who died from that point on would not depart their body, but instead remain within it. The death cult then devoted their arts and magics to preserving the bodies of the Napteshi as best they could, since if you are going to be permanently trapped within the same corpse, you want it to be preserved as best as possible.

    So the UD have no way to enslave souls, nor do they have necromancy. That power is literally anathema to the UD because it is a magic derived from the murder of their greatest Pharpoah. Their power is to preserve bodies, and transfer souls into statues in some manner.

    Your concept fits VC, whose background is about necromancy, raising the dead, and bending souls (typically of animals) to their service.
    “You can never know everything, and part of what you know is always wrong. Perhaps even the most important part. A portion of wisdom lies in knowing that. A portion of courage lies in going on anyways.” -Lan Mandragoran, EotW


    Dovie’andi se tovya sagain.
  • Litoperez wrote:

    Where can we find all this fluff the army is based on? I find it very difficult to understand t9a fluff because i cannot find a place with all the history written (just notes in the scroll)
    I can understand when a player likes slaves, and then the fluff says no slaves and gets frustrated (specially with an Egyptian style army)
    A large portion of it is in our Full army book
    the-ninth-age.com/community/filebase/index.php?file/1104

    I haven't kept up to date on the scrolls so no clue if there is any information there.
    “You can never know everything, and part of what you know is always wrong. Perhaps even the most important part. A portion of wisdom lies in knowing that. A portion of courage lies in going on anyways.” -Lan Mandragoran, EotW


    Dovie’andi se tovya sagain.
  • nomrakram wrote:

    setepenmentou wrote:

    The loop starts again:
    you're joking right? I thought this was a thread about new ideas. a 'brainstorming'... perhaps if 'your' fluff doesn't include the stories of slaves being forced to fight, we can make some more fluff. I am certain that a fictional magically reborn ancient empire can justify enslaving souls.
    Maybe because we already discussed about this idea ? You quoted your own message, you may have seen the answers to the message you quoted.
    So openmind plus new units, I'm not against since we added some living people and Shabti Character in our HB book.
    Oathbound to my King in life
    Soulbound to my Pharaoh in death
  • To muddle things up further on the slave undead discussion - The followers of Setesh.

    Like the loyalists of Naptesh originated and spread the art of soulbinding the world over, the rebels of Setesh could have done the same with Necromancy.

    While I've not much idea on where the eventual LAB will be taken, this civil war is still a very important part of the background of the book itself, but whether or not should be represented in the main book or an auxiliary, I don't know. But I do think that something that important SHOULD find its way to mechanical representation, because we can assume that the armies fielded by the Loyalists and the rebels would have been VERY different in composition.
    Life is hard when you're a skeleton
  • The Setesh's cabal literally became the first vampires. There is an entire book dedicated to the rebels :P
    “You can never know everything, and part of what you know is always wrong. Perhaps even the most important part. A portion of wisdom lies in knowing that. A portion of courage lies in going on anyways.” -Lan Mandragoran, EotW


    Dovie’andi se tovya sagain.
  • Palmu wrote:

    To muddle things up further on the slave undead discussion - The followers of Setesh.

    Like the loyalists of Naptesh originated and spread the art of soulbinding the world over, the rebels of Setesh could have done the same with Necromancy.

    While I've not much idea on where the eventual LAB will be taken, this civil war is still a very important part of the background of the book itself, but whether or not should be represented in the main book or an auxiliary, I don't know. But I do think that something that important SHOULD find its way to mechanical representation, because we can assume that the armies fielded by the Loyalists and the rebels would have been VERY different in composition.

    One imagines that's where VC and Necromancers come in, assuming the fluff connection is carried over from Legacy (and why wouldn't it be; they've pretty much copied and pasted Nagash). But I stopped paying attention to the official T9A fluff a while back, so I could be wrong on that score.
  • Aleph Null wrote:

    Palmu wrote:

    To muddle things up further on the slave undead discussion - The followers of Setesh.

    Like the loyalists of Naptesh originated and spread the art of soulbinding the world over, the rebels of Setesh could have done the same with Necromancy.

    While I've not much idea on where the eventual LAB will be taken, this civil war is still a very important part of the background of the book itself, but whether or not should be represented in the main book or an auxiliary, I don't know. But I do think that something that important SHOULD find its way to mechanical representation, because we can assume that the armies fielded by the Loyalists and the rebels would have been VERY different in composition.
    One imagines that's where VC and Necromancers come in, assuming the fluff connection is carried over from Legacy (and why wouldn't it be; they've pretty much copied and pasted Nagash). But I stopped paying attention to the official T9A fluff a while back, so I could be wrong on that score.
    now now, they gave him an Egyptian name and merged it with Egyptian mythology XD
    “You can never know everything, and part of what you know is always wrong. Perhaps even the most important part. A portion of wisdom lies in knowing that. A portion of courage lies in going on anyways.” -Lan Mandragoran, EotW


    Dovie’andi se tovya sagain.
  • Palmu wrote:

    The followers of Setesh.
    ...
    we can assume that the armies fielded by the Loyalists and the rebels would have been VERY different in composition.
    This is a pretty big part of the BG that I had completely forgotten about!
    Should the loyalist and Rebel armies be both representable within the LAB?
    Or should the Rebels be supplementary?

    Based on the BG, I suspect that both armies are close enough in units that they should be viable within a single book, and each one represents a focus on certain elements of the book. Also, as the war raged on, some of the techniques and tactics of the opposing army were copied. So in The 9th age, both factions should be even more similar than at the start of the war (T2A).
  • Folomo wrote:

    So in The 9th age, both factions should be even more similar than at the start of the war (T2A).
    Why is this so?

    Are Setesh & company the origin of Necromancy? Are not VC the necromancy faction? After millennia, why would two differing fundamentals converge? Knowing nothing about this, it would seem to me that these two would spiral into wildly different forms as time passes.

    Is this as Palmu says, a 'soul-binding' vs necromancy divide?
  • Dopey wrote:

    Are Setesh & company the origin of Necromancy? Are not VC the necromancy faction?
    AFAIK, no, the followers of Setesh (The Rebels) are not necromancers nor VC.

    The Rebels know dark arts such as proto-necromancy, which is an extension of the soul-binding/mortuary practices already known by UD, but necromancy should not be their main or only tool.

    The Rebels were formed by UD (skeletal troops, dark priests, a few traitor kings, statues, non-UD undeads) and should mostly remain UD since they can keep circling their troops. Their current aim should be revoking the seal imposed after the death of Phatep.

    Thinking about it, necromancy would be a pretty weak ability for any faction based near Neptashi, since the sources of living animals and humanoids should be pretty small in that area. So it can't be their main source of troops.


    I am a bit fuzzier on the origins of VC.
    They somehow learned the teachings from the Rebels (probably deserted from the Rebels) and in some way their leaders turned into vampires (using a ritual? It was a curse? A blessing? All?), and focus much more on binding unwilling souls to bodies and forcing tortured souls to serve them.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Folomo ().

  • This is an excerpt about how the different factions use magic (Ninth Scroll #5)

    Undying Dynasties
    Lying beneath eternal sands, sealed in tombs for centuries, the Undying Dynasties know the workings oftime as no others. Dedicating themselves to the preservation and restoration of their golden civilisations.It is only magic which permits them to escape the decay of ages, and return their legions to unlife, timeand time again. As they continually stir from theirsarcophagi, the Pharaoh’s seek an age in which theirsociety will never fall again.

    Vampire Covenant
    Across the world, beneath the veneer of civilisation,vampires have worked under a cloak of shadow,turning death from an affliction to a weapon. Theirsis not a mere return to past life, instead they lingerunchanged while turning the corpses of their foesinto weapons of horrifying destruction. Their magicmay be an extension of their own undying curse, yetit binds the buried dead to this world, forcing them toanswer the vampire's call, or that of the necromancer; mortals who have turned their hand to reach fordeath and felt its icy grasp
  • This is the point I was trying to make, the UD are the origins of the VC and necromancy. Therefore there should be some abilities that both races have. I understand we don't want the two books to be too similar, but there shouldn't be outright refusal, to consider what abilities would be shared.

    I think also, if in fact nothing in T9A can be done without background, areas of unknown or vagueness can be used to justify new abilities or mechanics. And furthering our black arts knowledge with proto-necromancy should be fair game.
  • tharsak wrote:

    they could have a function similar to ID shackled slaves
    a unit that is worse than skeleton warriors? Sounds like zombies! :P
    “You can never know everything, and part of what you know is always wrong. Perhaps even the most important part. A portion of wisdom lies in knowing that. A portion of courage lies in going on anyways.” -Lan Mandragoran, EotW


    Dovie’andi se tovya sagain.
  • I have a couple requests for LAB: reduce the no marching outside of the bubble, however that's accomplished.. more autonomous, all royals confer marching, return of the old incantations, icon of rakaph etc. And/or increase ranged capability. And second give the characters some better stats and/or better protection or reduce the mechanics of reliance on them.

    Edit- erased non relevant content.
    "To be a champion, compete; to be a great champion compete against the best; but to be the greatest champion, compete with yourself" -Matshona Dhliwayo

    The post was edited 2 times, last by Stygian ().

  • These are my ideas:
    Characters:

    Tomb Architect

    • Same but a new option:
      • Master Architect (95p). Choose one:
        • Option A: Can use Master of Stone on TWO friendly units.
        • Option B: Unit that gained Master of Stone must reroll failed Fortitude (5+) rolls.
        • Option C: Unit that gained Master of Stone is immune against Multiple Wounds Rule.

    Special

    Priestesses of the Aspid

    - Att 1, off3, def3, Str3, HP1, Ap1, Res3 Arm 0, Ag3

    Poison Attacks, Paired Weapons, Snake Cult.
    • Snake Cult: At the beginning of every round of Combat, put a marker in every enemy unit in contact with Priestesses. Each marker, add -1 to their Agi. This last until the end of this combat. Death Cult Hierarchs ignore Front Rank universal rule if they join this unit.

    Necropolis Guard.

    Same stats and rules but lose Poison attacks and Paired Weapons option. They always are equipped with Halberd and shield. Gain Weapon Master. If pharaon joins this unit, gain Fight in extra rank.
  • Folomo wrote:

    Palmu wrote:

    The followers of Setesh.
    ...
    we can assume that the armies fielded by the Loyalists and the rebels would have been VERY different in composition.
    This is a pretty big part of the BG that I had completely forgotten about!Should the loyalist and Rebel armies be both representable within the LAB?
    Or should the Rebels be supplementary?

    Based on the BG, I suspect that both armies are close enough in units that they should be viable within a single book, and each one represents a focus on certain elements of the book. Also, as the war raged on, some of the techniques and tactics of the opposing army were copied. So in The 9th age, both factions should be even more similar than at the start of the war (T2A).
    We are talking about a civil war that cut across society so it should be expected to be an almost complete overlap between what the two sides fielded through the conflict.

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