T9A: Grand Companies Playtesting/Feedback

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    • T9A: Grand Companies Playtesting/Feedback

      New thread for a new phase!

      As discussed in the last thread we are moving forward with @EdSteiners book as the basis for our Grand Companies project. The current draft can be found here:

      Grand Companies 2.0

      Many thanks to Ed for the work he's done so far, and for giving up his project for community modification.

      Some notes as we move forward:

      1) We need to reassemble the Mercenary Council, as totally public polling in phase 1 proved both unwieldy and unsuccessful. Ideally this will be a team of about 7 people to synthesize community feedback and vote on suggestions for the book. As there's no way to restrict access to votes, the votes and deliberations will be private but the results/reasoning will be made public.

      2) For at least the rest of 2019 the book will be locked (barring any existing point changes that EdSteiner already made for 2.1, which will be updated at the above link) while we tinker with lists and playtest so that any future changes can be based on your input.

      So I need a few more volunteers to round out the voting council. All are welcome unless we have more than 7 total, at which point we'll hold a general election as with before:

      1) @dan
      2) @EdSteiner
      3) @XaireTharisae
      4) @Emperor_Zoron
      5)
      6)
      7)
      8) @Calisson (Nonvoting project adviser)

      In the meantime, please test out the book and try to make and break lists with it, and post your thoughts and results here. We need feedback to vote on so that we're not making changes the community isn't interested in seeing.


      --------------------------------------------------------------

      Feedback items for council consideration (updated 11/7)


      Wording Changes

      • Keeper of Coin : « no further actions this turn » ––– What turn ? Player Turn or Game Turn ?

      • Pikes : « Pikes strike at Initiative Step 10 prior to Impact Hits being resolved, may only make 1 attack per round » –> who makes the attack ? the wielder or the Pike ?
      • Pikes : « and gain an additional +2 Armour Penetration if it is not Engaged either in their Flank or Rear Facing » –> who is not Engaged ? the subject of the sentence is « the Pikes » ! shouldn't instead the unit not be Engaged ? or the model

      • Cavalry, Beasts, and Constructs cannot use Pikes –> or simplier put, « Only Infantry can use Pikes »
      • Special Items : the formulation « Enchantment : Hand Weapon » is not consistent with the wording in the other books –> « Hand Weapon Enchantment »
      • Eastern Dragonsteel : « Attacks made with this weapon are at +1 Offensive Skill, and gain Lightning Reflexes, Magical Attacks, and Parry. » –> I'm not sure that an attack can be made at +1 Offensive skill: I'd rather increase the Off of the wearer. Also, an attack certainly cannot benefit from « Parry ».
      • Gilded Blade of Antinous : « This weapon has Impact Hits (D3) at +1 Strength when charged to the front. » –> sorry, what ? the weapon inflicts Impact Hits when charged ? So that can't be Impact Hits ! Also, who is charged ? The weapon, or the wearer ?
      • Jovian's Golden Protection : « The wearer is immune » –> this wording doesn't exist in the Ninth Age rules. Everywhere such rules are written as « Attacks with …… that are allocated to the wearer lose these Attack Attributes. »
      • Jovian's Golden Protection : « The bearer attacks with normal Close Combat Attacks at –2 Reaction » ––> –2 WHAT ?? Also, what the heck is a « normal » Close Combat Attack ??
      • Paychest of Severinus : « All units that use the model's Rally Around the Flag for their Break Tests are subject to Minimized Roll » –> who is subject to Minimized Roll ? the units ?? or the Break Test ?
      • Vercelli : « You must take one Character from the Non-Human Characters choices » –> what is the meaning of « take » ? does that mean I should include one such Character in my army list ? Why only one ? Are two OK ? Maybe better to formulate as « Your army must include at least on Non-Human Characters. Designate one of those Non-Human Characters: one unit… »
      • Vercelli : « One racial unit that aligns with the Non- Human Character » –> what is a « racial unit » ? what means to « align » ? –> « One unit with the same Race as the Non-Human Character »
      • Cales : « Any unit led by this Character » –> what is the meaning of « led » ? « joined » is the correct word
      • Cales : « any upgrades taken by (Pikemen or Sellswords) » –> what are the brackets for ??? also, by « a unit of » would sound better
      • Ostia : « [The] Character may reroll failed to hit rolls in the Close Combat phase » –> what to hit rolls ? the model's ? the wearer's ? for what attacks ? all of them ? Also, there is no such phase in our game. (it's called the Melee Phase)
      • Ostia : « led by this Character », again
      • Ostia : « ignore Fear and/or Terror » –> ignore the effects of these rules. Or, in line with the way other rules are formulated : « Always pass Fear and Terror Tests ». There is no point in the « and/or », it can just be « and »
      • Ostia : « the enemy causing it ». What enemy ? a model ? a unit ? what does it cause ? « Fear » and « Terror » are Model Rules, not effects.
      • Ostia : « is in their front arc » –> an enemy unit/model can either be inside the Front Arc, or be Located in the Front Arc.
      • Cyrno : « mounted on Standard Cavalry » –> instead of being mounted on a Standard Cavalry, the model itself could be Standard Cavalry.
      • Falerii : « reroll failed test to March, Reform, or Redirect Charges » –> there is a March Test, but not a « test to March ». Also, there is no such thing as a « Reform Test », as Reform is something you can do at any time during the Move Phase. However, a Discipline Test can be called to do a Combat Reform, but it is not called a « Combat Reform Test », just like there is no such thing in the rules as a « Redirect Charge Test », so probably both these tests need to be called « Discipline Tests to perform a Combat Reform or Redirecting Charges »

      • Dragonforged Armour : « cannot benefit from Fortitude » –> this has been reworded in the last update, the wearer instead « automatically fails all its Fortitude save tests. »
      • Elf Ranger : « the Elf Ranger allows one unit […] gains Ambush » –> « to gain Ambush ». It's weird though, because as it is worded, the Character needs to be deployed with them to « allow them to gain Ambush », meaning, they get Ambush after Deployment. So it's useless. Better worded would be : « Before Deployment, for each Elf Ranger on foot in the army, you can designate one unit of […]. That unit gains Ambush. Those units must be deployed together with an Ambushing Elf Ranger. »
      • Opportunist : there is a rule with exactly the same name and very similar effects in the Infernal Dwarf AB. But for some reason, the Mercenary States version says « +1 to hit » where the ID version says « reroll failed to hit rolls ». Also, the MS version only applies to the model part on foot (which doesn't make much sense as if it is on foot, then the whole model is one model part), whereas the ID version applies even if mounted. My advice : either copy the same rule as in the ID book, or change the name for this MS rule.
      • Norse Chieftain : there is no such thing in the Ninth Age universe. He should be Åsklander. Also, isn't he Human ??? His rules are interesting, but why not align them with those in the Åskland book ? Same remarks about the « Norse » Marauders.
      • Orc Marauder : same name as the « Norse Åskland Marauders » ? confusing. Make them Berserkers, and take the same unit entry from the Åskland book ?
      • Mercenary Orc Crossbowmen –> give us just normal « Mercenary Orcs », with an option for a Crossbow !
      • Pegasus : « This upgrade cost (i.e. X/pts) counts towards Legendary Curiosities & Armory » –> that is not the way it's usually worded in the other books. It could just be « This upgrade counts towards… », see for example the upgrade for ID Prophets.
      • Blunderbuss : it's just for the two guards around the Paycart, right ? So why do we need the whole page about how many ranks, and so on ?
      • Protect the Gold : Universal –> Universal Rule.
      • Protect the Gold : « can only benefit units that are not Characters or includes Characters in the unit. » –> « or do not include Characters » ?
      • Protect the Gold : « If the Paycart is Engaged in the Combat, friendly units when taking Break Tests, are subject to Minimized Roll. » –> what, all friendly units, everywhere on the table ? and, again « friendly units » cannot be subject to Minimized Roll, their Break Tests can, though.
      • Buckler : « The wearer gains a +1 Armour in Close Combat against non-Special Close Combat Attacks. » –> so it works against all Close Combat Attacks, no need to write « non-Special », as there is no such thing as a Special Close Combat Attack (although there are Special Melee Attacks)
      • Scrapling Lookout : « If a unit includes a Standard Bearer or a Battle Standard Bearer with » –> something missing after « with ».


      Structural Changes

      • Reduce complexity through:
        • Removing Veteran upgrade

      • Eastern Dragonsteel should be CC weapon upgrade, not HW upgrade
      • Base size/upgrade option for War Elephant (Great War Elephant?)
      • « Ancient Rivalry » : Can't have Greenhide and Dwarves together. –– Why ??
      • City State names - what are all those names ? Can't find those cities on the map. Doesn't sound immersive at all, sound completely random. Of course, we don't know much neither about the other cities on the map. Could be worth contacting the BG Team such as @Scottish Knight to see if we could associate every one of those traits to any already existing city.
      • Legendary Curiosities and Armoury name is too long. Also, what is the functional difference between that category and « Best money can buy » ?
      • Guido's Lucky Coin : what is the use of that item ?? And how can you call that « lucky » ?





      Point Changes

      • Mercenary Ogres/Veterans too expensive

      • Paycart mount to count torwards character allotment or not?
      • Paycart needs point increase or crew attack reduction
      • Scorpio Ballista extra models should be cheaper

      The post was edited 3 times, last by dan ().

    • First of Dan thank you again. I am finishing the update of the Grand Companies to beta 2.1 to ensure that the latest lecturing and points adjustments following the current meta and along with several from feedback already received, @XaireTharisae your many helpful points/comments duly noted. I plan on having it ready for a very brief internal review to make sure that I covered any of the glaring things and then a general release here after that brief period. But as Dan posted above the current work is still very relevant to the general project.
      EdSteiner

      Layout Team

      Tool Support - AB 3.x


      Si vis pacem, para bellum - if you want peace, prepare for war

      Download Army Builder 3.x 2.0 Dataset EN
    • EdSteiner wrote:




      4500 Pts - Mercenary States Army List

      Total Army List Cost: 4497

      Captain (1#, 285 pts)
      1 Captain, 120 pts = Lance + Shield
      1 Glittering Dragonscales, 35 pts
      1 Guido's Lucky Coin, 10 pts
      1 City-State of Vercelli, 65 pts
      1 Horse, 55 pts

      Non-Human Character (1#, 330 pts)
      1 Dwarf Goldseeker-Consigliere, 195 pts = Consigliere + Crossbow + Shield
      1 Basalt Infusion, 35 pts
      1 Dragon Staff, 30 pts
      1 Banner of Speed, 50 pts
      1 Legion Standard, 20 pts

      Guild Wizard (1#, 298 pts)
      1 Guild Wizard, 248 pts = Wizard Adept + Pistol + Light Armour
      1 Talisman of the Void, 50 pts

      Captain (1#, 180 pts)
      1 Captain-Engineer, 130 pts = Long Rifle + Shield
      1 City-State of Cyrno, 50 pts

      Pikemen (39#, 522 pts)
      38 Pikemen, 436 pts = Musician + Standard Bearer
      1 Champion, 36 pts = Pistol
      1 Banner of Leopold, 50 pts

      Mercenary Dwarfs (29#, 953 pts)
      28 Veteran Mercenary Dwarfs, 796 pts = Spear & Shield + Crossbow + Musician + Standard Bearer
      1 Veteran Champion, 82 pts
      1 Domingo's Arbalest, 45 pts
      1 Banner of Discipline, 30 pts

      Sellswords (25#, 405 pts)
      25 Sellswords, 405 pts = Spear & Shield + Light Armour+ Musician + Standard Bearer

      Freelancers (9#, 554 pts)
      8 Veteran Freelancers, 442 pts = Veteran Freelancer + Lance + Shield + Musician + Standard Bearer
      1 Veteran Champion, 102 pts = Veteran Freelancers + Lance + Pistol + Shield + Veteran Champion
      1 Aether Icon, 10 pts

      Hired Duelists (12#, 140 pts)
      12 Skirmished Hired Duelists, 140 pts = Irregulars + Throwing Weapons

      Torsion Artillery (3#, 100 pts)
      3 Scorpio-Ballista, 100 pts

      Torsion Artillery (1#, 90 pts)
      1 Ballista, 90 pts

      Torsion Artillery (1#, 195 pts)
      1 Dwarven Axe Thrower, 165 pts
      1 Seeker Engineer, 30 pts

      Black Powder Artillery (1#, 245 pts)
      1 Cannon, 245 pts

      Black Powder Artillery (1#, 200 pts)
      1 Ribault, 200 pts
      Before, I get into it, the rule is typically *additionally counts towards* rather than just *counts towards*. The just *counts towards* is fine with me, but I would imagine it would cause confusion, not sure there is anything like that.

      Now to your list: Nice Gun line ^^ I agree with your assessment: Zero chaff can be a weakness in such a shooting-focused list. I would consider dropping one of your 5(!) artillery choices for some Mounted Stradiots. In addition, with those Crossbow/Spear dwarves in core, that army is practically begging for those pikeman to have mixed formation ^^ that could be really cool imo.

      Quick point to note, non-human paymasters is a slippery-slope, and I am not sure why he has 130 points in special items... I fear the Vercelli city-state is too strong with this change, I would urge to keep it the way it is.
      The change in font size of this post is purely accidental: my phone is stupid, and I am too stupid to fix it.
    • jaith1 wrote:

      Before, I get into it, the rule is typically *additionally counts towards* rather than just *counts towards*. The just *counts towards* is fine with me, but I would imagine it would cause confusion, not sure there is anything like that.
      Now to your list: Nice Gun line ^^ I agree with your assessment: Zero chaff can be a weakness in such a shooting-focused list. I would consider dropping one of your 5(!) artillery choices for some Mounted Stradiots. In addition, with those Crossbow/Spear dwarves in core, that army is practically begging for those pikeman to have mixed formation ^^ that could be really cool imo.

      Quick point to note, non-human paymasters is a slippery-slope, and I am not sure why he has 130 points in special items... I fear the Vercelli city-state is too strong with this change, I would urge to keep it the way it is.
      You are correct, in current game mechanics its does not have any comparable. The why I did it this way was to force nuanced choices where getting a super cool but pricey upgrade on a Core units makes them costly, but I didn't want to allow that for fill out your Core force selection. This way you are still taking up total roster points, Your Freelancers unit counts for 611 total roster points. however when doing the Comp % its only 471 Core with 140 going to BMCB again chewing up that percentage. This was one of the way I found to limit the all exotic stuff in the roster while balancing the need for common mundane units in core that can be tooled up to operate well outside their punching weight not taking up the whole allocation. In many of the entries you will find it is all about cost optimization.

      11 Veteran Freelancers 611
      Lance, Shield, Full Command, Flaming Standard

      471 Core
      140 BMCB

      As a Dwarf Character he gets 150 of Special Item points due to his race.

      Since Vercelli was the only option I had to drop in a Non-Human BSB and it is further restricted by locking out all other Races except Humans and the BSB's race.
      EdSteiner

      Layout Team

      Tool Support - AB 3.x


      Si vis pacem, para bellum - if you want peace, prepare for war

      Download Army Builder 3.x 2.0 Dataset EN

      The post was edited 2 times, last by EdSteiner ().

    • List from before after fixing:

      'Two Poisons, One Mad Prince'

      Merchant Prince (General) 456
      Horse, Death Cheater, Shield, Lance, Kingslayer, Crown of the Wizard King, Guldo's Lucky Coin

      Quartermaster 196
      Great Weapon, Destiny's Call, Lucky Charm

      Guild Wizard 418
      Master Alchemy, Pistol, Sceptre of Power

      10 Hired Duelists 130
      Irregulars, Pistol

      10 Hired Duelists 130
      Irregulars, Pistol

      29 Pikemen 383
      Full Command, Flaming Standard

      11 Veteran Freelancers 667 (513+154)
      Full Command, Shield, Lance, Flaming Standard

      6 Veteran Ogres 810
      Musician, Brace of Ogre Pistols, Poison Attacks, Accurate

      10 Dread Elf Exiles 400
      Champion

      Mercenary Giant 330
      Light Armor, Shield

      Mercernary Giant 330
      Light Armor, Shield

      1 Cannon 250

      Total: 4500


      Second List I wrote up; only uses two veteran options, and gets nowhere close to filling BMCB (973/1125):

      'The Gunmage and the Dragon'

      Guild Wizard (General) 490
      Master Alchemy, Cyrno (Engineer 3+), Pistol, Repeater Pistol, Sceptre of Power, Guldo's Lucky Coin

      Quartermaster 196
      Great Weapon, Destiny's Call, Potion of Strength

      Disgraced Highborn Dragonlord 835
      Obisidian Rock, Lucky Charm

      15 Hired Duelists 185
      Irregulars, Pistol

      30 Veteran Pikemen 575 (395+180)
      Full Command, Heavy Armor, Flaming Standard

      12 Veteran Freelancers 719 (551+168)
      Full Command, Shield, Lance, Flaming Standard

      34 Paymasters Bodyguard 696
      Full Command, Plate Armor, Halberd, Standard of Honorius

      5 Mounted Stradiots 150
      Light Crossbow

      5 Mounted Stradiots 150
      Light Crossbow

      1 Cannon 250
      1 Cannon 250

      Total: 4496
      The change in font size of this post is purely accidental: my phone is stupid, and I am too stupid to fix it.
    • Had a chance to grab a game vs a regular whom had a free night as his wife had the kids trick or treating it. So I got a chance to take on his O&G.

      4500 Pts - Mercenary States Army List

      Total Army List Cost: 4491

      Commander (1#, 270 pts)
      1 Commander, 165 pts = Shield 10
      1 Glittering Dragonscales, 35 pts
      1 Guido's Lucky Coin, 10 pts
      1 Lucky Charm, 10 pts
      1 City-State of Asti, 50 pts

      Guild Wizard (1#, 485 pts)
      1 Guild Wizard, 375 pts = Wizard Master 225 + Light Armour 5
      1 Alchemist's Alloy, 15 pts
      1 Crystal Ball, 35 pts
      1 Talisman of the Void, 50 pts
      1 Horse, 10 pts

      Quartermaster (1#, 265 pts)
      1 Quartermaster, 130 pts = Halberd 5 + Plate Armour 15
      1 Talisman of Shielding, 50 pts
      1 Paychest & Bodyguard, 85 pts

      Captain (1#, 290 pts)
      1 Captain, 120 pts = Lance 5 + Shield 5
      1 Dragon Staff, 30 pts
      1 Dragonfire Gem, 20 pts
      1 Pegasus, 120 pts = May increase Armour to (C+2) 50

      Pikemen (39#, 482 pts)
      38 Pikemen, 436 pts = Musician 20 + Standard Bearer 20
      1 Champion, 36 pts = Pistol (3+) 4
      1 Aether Icon, 10 pts

      Sellswords (25#, 455 pts)
      25 Sellswords, 455 pts = Spear & Shield 3 + Javelin (4+) 2 + Light Armour 2 + Musician 20 + Standard Bearer 20

      Crossbowmen (12#, 198 pts)
      12 Crossbowmen, 198 pts = Musician 20

      Hired Duelists (12#, 152 pts)
      12 Skirmished Hired Duelists, Irregulars 1 + Pistol (4+) 4

      Freelancers (9#, 544 pts)
      8 Veteran Freelancers, 442 pts Veteran Freelancers 12 + Lance 2 + Shield 5 + Musician 20 + Standard Bearer 20
      1 Veteran Champion, 102 pts = Veteran Freelancers 12 + Lance 2 + Pistol (3+) 8 + Shield 5 + Veteran Champion 25

      Paymaster's Bodyguard (31#, 501 pts)
      30 Paymaster's Bodyguard, 440 pts = Heavy Armour + Halberd + Musician 20 + Standard Bearer 20
      1 Champion, 36 pts
      1 Supernatural Dexterity, 25 pts

      Halflings (15#, 235 pts)
      15 Halflings, 235 pts =Bow (3+) 5 + Musician 20 + Scout 20 + Skirmisher 20

      Stradiots (6#, 234 pts)
      6 Mounted Stradiots, 234 pts = Light Lance 2 + Light Crossbow (4+) 2 + Light Armour 2 + Shield 2 + Musician 20

      Torsion Artillery (1#, 90 pts)
      1 Ballista, 90 pts

      Torsion Artillery (1#, 90 pts)
      1 Ballista, 90 pts

      Black Powder Artillery (1#, 200 pts)
      1 Ribault, 200 pts

      Validation Report:
      Game: 9th Age (2nd Ed.); Competition Level: Non-Tournament/Homebrew; Core Rules Version: 2.0; Data File Version: 2.48; Roster Output Format: Verbose
      Army List satisfies all enforced validation rules

      Composition Report:
      Points of Characters: 1260 (0 - 1575)
      Points of Core: 1723 (1125 - Unlimited)
      Points of Special: 970 (0 - 0)
      Points of Best Money Can Buy (C1): 108 (0 - 1125)
      Points of Legendary Curiosities & Armoury (C2): 430 (0 - 1125)

      He had

      4500 Pts - Orcs & Goblins Army List

      Total Army List Cost: 4475

      Orc Warlord (1#, 675 pts)
      1 Iron Orc Warlord, 310 pts = Iron 295 + Paired Weapons 10 + Shield 5
      1 Touch of Greatness, 50 pts
      1 Talisman of Shielding, 50 pts
      1 Crown of Autocracy, 65 pts
      1 Bigwing Wyvern, 200 pts = Bigwing 10

      Goblin Witch Doctor (1#, 845 pts)
      1 Forest Goblin Witch Doctor, 365 pts = Wizard Master 245 + Forest 120
      1 Gargantula, 480 pts

      Goblin Chief (1#, 195 pts)
      1 Forest Goblin Chief, 140 pts = Battle Standard Bearer 50 + Forest 85 + Bow (2+) 5
      1 Maza's Zappin Bow, 55 pts

      Common Goblins (37#, 407 pts)
      34 Common Goblins, 332 pts = Bow (4+) 2 + Champion 20 + Musician 20 + Standard Bearer 20
      3 Shady Gits, 45 pts = 3 * 15
      1 Banner of Discipline, 30 pts

      Common Goblins (20#, 180 pts)
      20 Common Goblins, 180 pts = Bow (4+) 2 + Musician 20

      Feral Orc ‘Eadbashers (28#, 757 pts)
      28 Feral Orc ‘Eadbashers, 712 pts = Feral 5 + Paired Weapons 2 + Champion 20 + Musician 20 + Standard Bearer 20 + Mammoth Stabber 20
      1 Green Tide, 45 pts

      Gnasher Herd (32#, 416 pts)
      32 Gnasher Herd, 416 pts

      Common Goblin Raiders (5#, 125 pts)
      5 Common Goblin Raiders, 125 pts = Common 2

      Common Goblin Raiders (5#, 130 pts)
      5 Common Goblin Raiders, 130 pts = Common 2 + Shield 1

      Goblin Wolf Chariot (3#, 315 pts)
      3 Goblin Wolf Chariot, 315 pts

      Greenhide Catapults (1#, 215 pts)
      1 Git Launcher, 195 pts = Git Launcher (4+) 195
      1 Orc Overseer, 20 pts

      Greenhide Catapults (1#, 215 pts)
      1 Git Launcher, 195 pts = Git Launcher (4+)
      1 Orc Overseer, 20 pts

      He won deployment and went first. I was able to use my Hobbits to counter his Chariots as they held a forest in the far table corner and he did not want to charge into it and chance DT's. He used the rest of his turn to advance on my line. Magic was a wash. In my turn I was able to get a charge with my Peg Cpt at his Raiders which of course fled, however I was then able to redirect into his second Raider unit which also fled. Except they had an angle and rolled to flee the board instead. Shooting I took aim at his big spider with both my Ballista and recorded two hits. but only 5 total wounds not bad. Magic as was a wash as he dispelled my major spell and I punted on the rest. However his turn two the pain came as I had to flee my Peg Cpt from his Wyvern and again bad angle and I fled the board. The 'Eadbashers arrived on my line and were held nicely by the Pikes. His got lucky with counter battery fire and destroyed my Ribualt. His Magic ended up boosting his orcs. Move to end game I lost 12-8. But much fun was had. My Veteran Champion in Freelancers held his own in a challenge due to his 2 HP.
      EdSteiner

      Layout Team

      Tool Support - AB 3.x


      Si vis pacem, para bellum - if you want peace, prepare for war

      Download Army Builder 3.x 2.0 Dataset EN
    • Here's some ideas

      Commander (565pts)
      Mountain Rock, Vercelli
      Great Weapon, Eastern Dragonsteel,Talisman of Shield, Basalt Infusion, Shield

      Elf Ranger (250pts)
      BSB, Light Armour, Shield, Destiny Call

      Priestess of the Old World (295pts)
      Obisidian Rock

      Oracle of Light (285pts)
      Binding Scroll


      15 Hired Duelist (175pts)
      Musician, Throwing Weapon, Ambush

      10 Freelancer (630pts)
      Veteran, Horned Raptor, Full Command
      Halberd, Banner of Leopod

      34 Pikemen (428pts)
      Full Command, Legion Standard

      10 Hired Duelist (90pts)
      Irregular


      5 Wolf Rider (130pts)

      5 Wolf Rider (130pts)

      6 Mercenary Ogres (739pts)
      Veteran, Iron Fist, Full Command
      Swiftride, Plate Armour


      2 Scorpio Balista (60pts)


      1 Mercenary Giant (360pts)
      Light Armour, Shield, Big Brother

      1 Mercenary Giant (360pts)
      Light Armour, Shield, Big Brother


      Total 4497pts
    • Commander (565pts)
      Mountain Rock, Vercelli
      Great Weapon, Eastern Dragonsteel,Talisman of Shield, Basalt Infusion, Shield

      Guild Wizard (450pts)
      Master, Binding Scroll, Obsidian Rock

      Elf Ranger (250pts)
      BSB, Light Armour, Shield, Destiny Call


      15 Hired Duelist (175pts)
      Musician, Throwing Weapon, Ambush

      34 Pikemen (428pts)
      Full Command, Legion Standard

      10 Dread Elf Exiles (400pts)
      Musician

      5 Freelancer (205pts)
      Musician, shield, light lance


      3 Mercenary Ogres (410pts)
      Veteran, Brace of Ogres Pistols
      Musician, Accurate, Swiftride, Champion

      5 Wolf Rider (130pts)

      5 Wolf Rider (130pts)


      10 Dread Elf Exiles (400pts)
      Musician


      1 Halfing Catapult (115pts)

      2 Scorpio Balista (60pts)

      2 Scorpio Balista (60pts)


      +1 Mercenary Giant (360pts)
      Light Armour, Shield, Big Brother

      1 Mercenary Giant (360pts)
      Light Armour, Shield, Big Brother


      Total 4498pts
    • Now For Hyre
      Rufus the Magnificent, famed wizard and animal trainer, seeks PROFITABLE EMPLOY.
      Rufus is available for:
      - Epic Battles
      - Local skirmishes
      - Domestic disturbances
      Reasonable rates, block booking discount, Prestidigitation extra

      Welcome again Mercenary Commanders to the formal introduction of the Grand Companies of the Mercenary States. I know that’s seems like a mouthful, but I am very pleased to present Grand Companies of the Mercenary States beta 2.1 for your review and battlefield reporting. It has been many years since we set off on this epic journey together along the way we have lost some bodies and gained a few more. As the collective group here we hope that you will help us move this project forward by using the Armybook to test out builds, play games and give feedback on what works, what doesn’t, what your opponent feels is broken, overpowered, under-costed, insert random adjective here.

      As a long time community member I want to take a few additional seconds to go over some of the concepts of this Army

      Goal: To provide rules for models from a former game system that at current does not have an Armybook.

      Army Strengths & Army Weaknesses
      AS: Options, options, options and yes even more options(When gold is your primary concern, that allows you to buy allot of options,choices) - This a marked departure from the current state of the 9th Age where unit options have been reduced, removed and so forth. Diversity in army builds through what options you have taken with your characters that can alter the structure of the army allowing for some very unique builds.
      AW: No Hereditary spell, Loss of the model with"Keeper of Coin" can disrupt a major portions of the army. Hard limits on what units can be fielded. Veteran status unit are limited by Choice counts, and many of the more powerful units are Veteran or need to be upgraded to Veteran for them to gain access their special rules.

      Key Concepts: This army must have a model with"Keeper of Coin", which acts as the army BSB, this model is normally an under-powered character with below average stats when compared to the more powerful combat choices. An alternative choice is available but at the expense of the ability to modify the Army Organization percentages. Again it's all about choices. Add to that several alternate racial character choices which are basic mirrors of that races normal model, with a few minor exceptions. A wide range of Core unit choices with various option load-outs, several Special choices again with options that can alter their functions. Two army unique categories, where many of the unique units choices reside. Add to that many of the Unit upgrades account a portion of the points value toward some of these 2 categories reducing the available percentages. Example, the Veteran Upgrade on Pikemen counts toward the Best Money Can Buy, if you further add to them an armour upgrade those points count toward the Legendary Curiosities & Armoury section. Limits again are taken into account by restriction on how many of these unique units, options and the like are coded a well to prevent spamming. Only a select portion of the Characters can access this army's special rules section (City-States) and are further limited by being unable to join a unit when a model as a different City-State. This is likewise how the Non-Human characters are treated exact they are further restricted into being unable to provide leadership when in units not of the same Race as their own.

      Designers Notes: I have been a player of that former games system since the late 90's and have both been an owner of a FLGS as well as providing extensive work with a follow-up independent project that produced an series of works when that former game company ceased its support of that army in its 7th and 8th Editions settings. I have been the lead coder for the Army Builder software datafile for the 9th Age as well as that former game system. I have used my understanding of points & rule interactions to draft this Armybook, attempting to create the entries included within this book. I have taken great length of mathing out the interactions while taking things from other factions to encompass the vast range of unit choices this army can field. While at the same time to make sure that things do not overtake in the terms of power/game changing design mechanics and so forth.

      Summary: I hope that as you take the time to review this work you will find that I have attempted to take all consideration into account for points/rules/options. I thank you for your time and look forward to your feedback. Also if you use the Armybuilder 3.x software I can show you how to access this Armybook from within its datafile.

      So with that being said, get out your sack of gold sovereigns and hire your army and win battles.

      In closing I would like to add the following to whom getting the project this far could not have been accomplished
      @dan
      @XaireTharisae
      and many others to whom I did not mention.
      EdSteiner

      Layout Team

      Tool Support - AB 3.x


      Si vis pacem, para bellum - if you want peace, prepare for war

      Download Army Builder 3.x 2.0 Dataset EN

      The post was edited 2 times, last by EdSteiner ().

    • Taking this list to my local league gaming night to play against some tuff as nails WoDG list

      4500 Pts - Mercenary States Army List

      Captain (1#, 230 pts)
      1 Captain, 230 pts (General; Great Weapon; Plate Armour; Commanding Presence)
      1 Essence of Mithril
      1 City-State of Vercelli

      Non-Human Character (1#, 325 pts)
      1 Dwarf Goldseeker-Consigliere, 325 pts (Consigliere; Great Weapon; Plate Armour; Distrust; Keeper of Coin; Rally Around the Flag; Sturdy; Aegis (5+))
      1 Talisman of Shielding
      1 Legion Standard
      1 Standard of Honorius

      Non-Human Character (1#, 265 pts)
      1 Dwarf Goldseeker, 265 pts (Allied Character; Great Weapon; Plate Armour; Distrust; Sturdy)
      1 Jovian's Golden Protection
      1 Obsidian Rock
      1 Rod of Battle

      Guild Wizard (1#, 443 pts)
      1 Guild Wizard, 443 pts (Wizard Master; Pistol (4+); Light Armour; Channel (1))
      1 Alchemist's Alloy
      1 Lightning Vambraces
      1 Path of Thaumaturgy
      1 Horse (Cannot be Stomped; Harnessed; Swiftstride; Tall)

      Mercenary Dwarfs (23#, 624 pts)
      22 Veteran Mercenary Dwarfs, 624 pts (Musician; Standard Bearer; Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Bodyguard (Dwarf Goldseeker); Scoring; Sturdy)
      1 Veteran Champion (Veteran Champion; Great Weapon; Brace of Pistols (3+); Heavy Armour; Sturdy)

      Sellswords (25#, 385 pts)
      25 Sellswords, 385 pts (Standard Bearer; Spear & Shield; Light Armour; Scoring)

      Hired Duelists (10#, 130 pts)
      10 Skirmished Hired Duelists, 130 pts (Irregulars; Pistol (4+); Hard Target (1); Light Troops; Skirmisher)

      Freelancers (10#, 440 pts)
      9 Freelancers, 440 pts (Musician; Standard Bearer; Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield; Scoring)
      1 Champion (Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield)
      10 Horse (Cannot be Stomped; Harnessed; Swiftstride; Tall)

      Mercenary Dwarfs (22#, 466 pts)
      21 Mercenary Dwarfs, 466 pts (Musician; Standard Bearer; Spear & Shield; Heavy Armour; Bodyguard (Dwarf Goldseeker); Scoring; Shield Wall; Sturdy)
      1 Champion (Spear & Shield; Brace of Pistols (3+); Heavy Armour; Shield Wall; Sturdy)

      Stradiots (10#, 170 pts)
      10 Dismounted Stradiots, 170 pts (Bow (4+); Hard Target (1); Light Troops; Scout; Skirmisher)

      Stradiots (9#, 336 pts)
      9 Mounted Stradiots, 336 pts (Musician; Light Lance; Bow (4+); Light Armour; Shield; Feigned Flight; Light Troops; Vanguard)
      9 Horse (Cannot be Stomped; Harnessed; Swiftstride; Tall)

      Torsion Artillery (4#, 140 pts)
      4 Scorpio-Ballista, 140 pts (Scorpio-Ballista (4+); Pavise; Independent Unit)

      Black Powder Artillery (1#, 245 pts)
      1 Cannon, 245 pts (Cannon (4+); Chariot; War Machine)
      1 Crew (Move or Fire)

      Torsion Artillery (1#, 90 pts)
      1 Ballista, 90 pts (Ballista (4+); Chariot; War Machine)
      1 Crew (Move or Fire)

      Torsion Artillery (1#, 195 pts)
      1 Dwarven Axe Thrower, 195 pts (Dwarven Axe Thrower (4+); Chariot; Veteran; War Machine)
      1 Seeker Crew (Weapon Master; Great Weapon; Paired Weapons; Move or Fire; Sturdy; The bigger they are...; Unbreakable; Yer comin' with me...!; Aegis (6+))
      1 Seeker Engineer (Weapon Master; Great Weapon; Paired Weapons; Move or Fire; Sturdy; The bigger they are...; Unbreakable; Yer comin' with me...!; Aegis (6+))

      Composition Report:
      Points of Characters: 1263 (0 - 1575)
      Points of Core: 1579 (1125 - Unlimited)
      Points of Special: 506 (0 - 0)
      Points of Best Money Can Buy (C1): 1120 (0 - 1125)
      Points of Legendary Curiosities & Armoury (C2): 640 (0 - 1125)

      Total Army List Cost: 4484
      EdSteiner

      Layout Team

      Tool Support - AB 3.x


      Si vis pacem, para bellum - if you want peace, prepare for war

      Download Army Builder 3.x 2.0 Dataset EN
    • Today I did an initiation game to a new member, and was able to play a 2500pts army against Orcs & Gob

      My list:


      Commander (455pts)
      Mountain Roc, Great Weapon, Eastern Dragonstel (LightningReflexes, Magical Attack, Parry) Talisman of Shield, General

      Guild Wizard (220pts)
      Adept (Divination)

      Merchant Prince (200pts)
      Coin Keeper, Shield, Glittering Dragonstel (Distracting)


      30 Pikemen (380pts)
      Full Command, Legion Standard

      10 Crossbowmen (180pts)
      Veteran (Aim 3+)

      10 Hired Duelists (150pts)
      Irregular (Skirmisher), Pistols (4+), Musician


      3 Mercenary Ogres (357pts)
      Veteran, Iron Fist, Musician, Swfitride, Plate Armour

      2 Scorpio Ballista (60pts)


      1 Mercenary Giant
      Light Armour, Shield

      1 Paycart (170pts)

      2502pts


      Game result:

      Big win for Grand Companies

      Good:
      - Paycart
      - Commander on Mountain Rock

      Bad:
      - Commander on Mountain Rock
      - Mercenary Veteran Ogres

      Game was quick since he was a new player.
      He had a strong shooting/magic missile so I had to hide my giant and charge turn 2 to his forest goblin block with my general.
      I was happy about my general charging... but he got killed in 2 turns by 30 gobs poison ;(
      Mercenary Veteran Ogres got some heavy shooting by holding objective, barely made it.

      I did like Scorpio-Balista, they are interesting unit and even if he died Commander on Rock is a really strong leader (18" Dis 9)



      Feedback for Grand Companies

      @EdSteiner
      - Just to make sure Paycart do NOT count under character? Just "Best your money..."
      It's already difficult with Character limit, we do need a strong discipline general + Coin Keeper + mage...

      Paycart is OP for me, I think for 4 crew with 2att each (8Att) it should cost 190pts OR keep it at 170pts but only 3 crew 2att each (6att total)

      - Mercenary Ogres & Veteran Ogres are to expensive, we can not be competitive and have same unit as an other army for 50/70pts more.... maybe like +5pts/model

      - Scorpio Balista, maybe +30pts for extra model
    • XaireTharisae wrote:

      Feedback for Grand Companies


      @EdSteiner
      - Just to make sure Paycart do NOT count under character? Just "Best your money..."
      It's already difficult with Character limit, we do need a strong discipline general + Coin Keeper + mage...

      Paycart is OP for me, I think for 4 crew with 2att each (8Att) it should cost 190pts OR keep it at 170pts but only 3 crew 2att each (6att total)

      - Mercenary Ogres & Veteran Ogres are to expensive, we can not be competitive and have same unit as an other army for 50/70pts more.... maybe like +5pts/model

      - Scorpio Balista, maybe +30pts for extra model
      Paycart
      I forgot to update that option price when the extra Guards were added it should be 200. This option is does not count toward Characters at all. I will be added some extra text to the unit entry in the next update to clarify that further. Also the unit does count towards Minimum Army Size requirements.

      Merc Ogre Vets
      While I don't disagree with you, costing that unit has been one of my hardest issues as I don't want them to be this yup another Army with some Ogres in it.

      Scorpio Balista
      Noted for further review.

      XaireTharisae wrote:

      Commander (455pts)
      Mountain Roc, Great Weapon, Eastern Dragonstel (LightningReflexes, Magical Attack, Parry) Talisman of Shield, General
      Why the Great Weapon on the Commander when Eastern Dragonsteel is Handweapon only? Only thing is too much spent on BMCB 737 and only can be 625 (Mountain Roc/180 + Paycart/170 + XBow (Aim 3+)/30 + Vet Ogres/357)

      Here is how I tweaked it to have it fall in ratio

      2500 Pts - Mercenary States Army List

      Commander (1#, 395 pts)
      1 Commander, 395 pts (General; Plate Armour; Shield; Veteran Commander; Aegis (5+))
      1 Eastern Dragonsteel
      1 Talisman of Shielding
      1 City-State of Asti

      1 Pegasus

      Guild Wizard (1#, 233 pts)
      1 Guild Wizard, 233 pts (Wizard Adept; Pistol (4+); Light Armour)
      1 Path of Divination

      Merchant Prince (1#, 200 pts)
      1 Merchant Financier, 200 pts (Keeper of Coin; Plate Armour; Shield)
      1 Glittering Dragonscales

      Paycart (1#, 170 pts)
      4 Crew
      2 Horse

      Crossbowmen (10#, 180 pts)
      10 Veteran Crossbowmen, 180 pts (Crossbow (3+))

      Hired Duelists (10#, 150 pts)
      10 Skirmished Hired Duelists, 150 pts (Musician; Irregulars; Pistol (4+))

      Pikemen (30#, 380 pts)
      29 Pikemen, 380 pts (Musician; Standard Bearer)
      1 Champion
      1 Legion Standard

      Mercenary Ogres (3#, 357 pts)
      3 Mercenary Veteran Ogres, 357 pts (Musician; Iron Fist)
      1 Battle-Scarred (Plate Armour; Swiftstride)

      Torsion Artillery (3#, 100 pts)
      3 Scorpio-Ballista, 100 pts

      Mercenary Giant (1#, 330 pts)
      1 Mercenary Giant, 330 pts (Light Armour; Shield)

      Composition Report:
      Points of Characters: 778 (0 - 875)
      Points of Core: 680 (625 - Unlimited)
      Points of Special: 357 (0 - 0)
      Points of Best Money Can Buy (C1): 557 (0 - 625)
      Points of Legendary Curiosities & Armoury (C2): 480 (0 - 625)

      Total Army List Cost: 2495
      EdSteiner

      Layout Team

      Tool Support - AB 3.x


      Si vis pacem, para bellum - if you want peace, prepare for war

      Download Army Builder 3.x 2.0 Dataset EN

      The post was edited 4 times, last by EdSteiner ().

    • dan wrote:

      I overlooked that restriction, as well, as I thought the upgrade was basically tailor-made to be put on a Great Weapon. Not sure it'll see use at any point cost if it's restricted to S4 hand weapons.
      We how about we add that to our notes as maybe it should be Close Combat Weapon vs Handweapon.
      EdSteiner

      Layout Team

      Tool Support - AB 3.x


      Si vis pacem, para bellum - if you want peace, prepare for war

      Download Army Builder 3.x 2.0 Dataset EN
    • EdSteiner wrote:

      dan wrote:

      I overlooked that restriction, as well, as I thought the upgrade was basically tailor-made to be put on a Great Weapon. Not sure it'll see use at any point cost if it's restricted to S4 hand weapons.
      We how about we add that to our notes as maybe it should be Close Combat Weapon vs Handweapon.
      Yeah for me it was for sure a "close combat" enchantment. 65pts to get +1 to hit on 4att str 4... no thanks :D
      65pts to use with great weapon is a great combo :)

      Thanks for Paycart info, make sense at 200pts, still a really nice model.
      One more thing on Paycart rule "If the paycart is engaged in combat, friendly units when taking break test are subject to minimized roll", You mean friendly units within the 6" bubble bsb effect?

      For Mercenary Ogres & Veterans I understand people who don't want same price as KO, but it's only one unit within a lot, it's not gonna be the main topic of our army.
      If you want to play a lots of Ogres in Grand Companies, you need a Humain character with 70pts upgrade + a character ogres and only after you can have ONE regular Ogre unit as core, it's already a lots of restriction. If you want to play a lot ogres you better play KO :whistling:
      Personally I'm more interested on Mercenary Veteran Ogres, and I'm sorry but even in KO book they are called "Mercenary" :D , let's just add an extra +5pts compare to KO book (+ character upgrade option to "unlock").

      Yeah I have to check more "categories" %... :P Just want to try units 1st to see how they work.


      Why the Great Weapon on the Commander when Eastern Dragonsteel is Handweapon only? Only thing is too much spent on BMCB 737 and only can be 625 (Mountain Roc/180 + Paycart/170 + XBow (Aim 3+)/30 + Vet Ogres/357)
      Hum... just read again your post... that's will become a huge problem on categories restriction if we add veteran upgrade into BMCB, no?
      In BMCB you have units + a lots of upgrade/option for most? of the army?

      Let me run more lists and see if I end up having this issue again :)



      I did like Scorpio-Balista, they are interesting unit
      Oh I forgot... base for Scorpio Balista is 20x25... don't think it's correct ;)
      I would have them 25x50mm

      The post was edited 1 time, last by XaireTharisae ().

    • XaireTharisae wrote:


      I did like Scorpio-Balista, they are interesting unit
      Oh I forgot... base for Scorpio Balista is 20x25... don't think it's correct ;)I would have them 25x50mm
      Typo sb 25x50. I will fixed that one tonight.
      EdSteiner

      Layout Team

      Tool Support - AB 3.x


      Si vis pacem, para bellum - if you want peace, prepare for war

      Download Army Builder 3.x 2.0 Dataset EN