Rune of Resolve

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  • Rune of Resolve

    Hello Beer Drinkers / Beards!

    It was somehow officialy stated (on Facebook) by @Lakson that if we grumble loudly enough there can be some change(s) made based on our voice.

    Then grab your favorite hammer, axe (or even spear) and scream at lound with me:

    We want in 2.1 following sentence in Rune of Resolve:

    And gains March and Shoot until end of owners turn.

    Rationale behind this:
    • This is worst spell we have
    • This is worst spell compared to Magical Lore counterpart (1 from Witchcraft)
    • Project owes it to us after nerfing (aka 'streamlining') Rune of Revocation
    Why this is worst spell:
    • It is most situational spell we have, so it is not worth picking on an Anvil. And at the same time units that can most benefit from it are hardly ever in range of Runic Smith
    • In current form it was OK when it could trigger additional bombing (removed afaik with 2.0)
    • Our spells should be equally strong so we don't have to bring 4x the best one.
    Why it matters:
    • It will immediately improve Forge Wardens a bit
    • It will justify TW on Greybeards for crazy 5ppm (some armies pay 6 for crossbows!)
    • It will create completely new strategies for many units (even Xbows and GCHG)
    • It will improve overall of our magic phase ;)
    What else can be changed to Rune of Resolve to make it funnier:
    * +2 Agi (and Lasts one Turn) instead of March and Shoot
    * ignore Move or Fire on War Machines (insanely strong)
    * Light Troops instead of March and Shoot (stronger version)
    * other boost to Shooting - eg. remove Unwieldy until end of a turn, etc.
  • Haha... nope :P

    I’ve said that feedback from community will be consider by RT in final version of this points update. POINTS UPDATE ;)

    And you can ask better dwarven players (yes @MeuhMeuh I’m looking at you at the moment) if they also think that is the weakest rune.

    Any design changes will be possible when time for our LAB will come.

    And about rune of revocation wording change I’ve posted info in other thread (and I’m sure you have seen it).
    ...Bloody forest... damn tree-huggers and daisy-eaters... burn 'em all...

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Lakson ().

  • WarX wrote:

    youngseward wrote:

    WarX wrote:


    • Project owes it to us after nerfing (aka 'streamlining') Rune of Revocation

    I’ll be honest, I stopped paying any attention as soon as I read this.The project has not, does not, and never will owe any of us anything.
    And this is biggest issue about T9A - game is nice, but project do not care about community ;)
    Because project does not implement every stupid idea from people who have no idea about it, it doesn't mean they don’t care…
    ...Bloody forest... damn tree-huggers and daisy-eaters... burn 'em all...
  • WarX wrote:

    youngseward wrote:

    WarX wrote:


    • Project owes it to us after nerfing (aka 'streamlining') Rune of Revocation

    I’ll be honest, I stopped paying any attention as soon as I read this.The project has not, does not, and never will owe any of us anything.
    And this is biggest issue about T9A - game is nice, but project do not care about community ;)
    I typed a long response that outlined how I feel about your attitude. But it would not be constructive.

    If you want more from the project be that more. Volunteer your time and your effort.

    Alternatively, if you just want to contribute to a toxic culture of entitlement you could do that too I guess.

    Your call.
    Probably the Least Useless Player in the World - International Herminard Poll 2018
  • WarX wrote:

    MeuhMeuh wrote:

    Vanguard + Relentless company + Rune of Resolve = 33" turn one KA-POW
    Have you ever picked or even considered taking 3xRune of Resolve to play this?
    No, but I play x2 very often.
    Also, rune of resolve isn't great just for rushes, it also helps getting your warmachine out of LoS from a charge sometimes, make a bomber bomb a second time, allow TW to get in range.. And it's not only a 6" move, it also allow for a swift reform. The spell is pretty strong as it is, as for any other magical move
  • youngseward wrote:

    WarX wrote:

    youngseward wrote:

    WarX wrote:


    • Project owes it to us after nerfing (aka 'streamlining') Rune of Revocation

    I’ll be honest, I stopped paying any attention as soon as I read this.The project has not, does not, and never will owe any of us anything.
    And this is biggest issue about T9A - game is nice, but project do not care about community ;)
    I typed a long response that outlined how I feel about your attitude. But it would not be constructive.
    If you want more from the project be that more. Volunteer your time and your effort.

    Alternatively, if you just want to contribute to a toxic culture of entitlement you could do that too I guess.

    Your call.
    Already waiting more then half a year for accepting to Tools Support team to kick BS fata files. What more I can do then this?
  • MeuhMeuh wrote:

    WarX wrote:

    MeuhMeuh wrote:

    Vanguard + Relentless company + Rune of Resolve = 33" turn one KA-POW
    Have you ever picked or even considered taking 3xRune of Resolve to play this?
    No, but I play x2 very often.Also, rune of resolve isn't great just for rushes, it also helps getting your warmachine out of LoS from a charge sometimes, make a bomber bomb a second time, allow TW to get in range.. And it's not only a 6" move, it also allow for a swift reform. The spell is pretty strong as it is, as for any other magical move
    And what pushing WM changes except that it will get same charge one turn later?

    Bombing second time is forbidden in 2.0
  • This topic is really something, worth to be discussed. But I think it should be everyone's consensus to clean it from the (as I saw it) polemic modus of a protest. To be honest I don't think @WarX was ever aiming to 'demand' something, by making enough people push a topic - the way he proclaimed this line, was written in a fun way - and so I think, self aware. So maybe we can agree that this is an open discussion about the use of the rune and if it is worth taking at all, considering the other runes and synergies with specific army builds. (With the additional wish, that the people in charge actually listen - which is, the semantic content of the polemic call)

    So, thanks WarX for bringing this discussion into the spotlight - because this rune is, in my opinion, in a very strange spot.

    My experience with it may be pretty distorted - as I love to use raven's wings with my goblin army - which are in contrast just insanely good - but it's the following:
    * When choosing the runes, (while building the army), without any specific purpose for any of them, besides the goal to be busy in all magic phases, [which means, I do not want to have phases, when I can only cast 1 rune, which would have to be dispelled of course] this rune appears as very attractive for me. There will always be a dwarf unit in range, that CAN be moved. This makes it a nice choice, for being at least something I can cast at all, with a direct impact. Not every rune can hold up to this, and so using them shrinks the choice of other runes, as you should at least be able to cast 3 runes in a phase, to get at least one through.
    * Is this possible impact always (or mostly) a real impact in the game or just something our enemy would gladly let through, to reserve some dice for other spells? A real, comparable impact, not that often, I'd say. Just because it has a lot of potential targets, it does not mean they all are that useful. Most of the time, I get my units with normal moves into a position, I am at least okay with. So, if it is not something, that has to be feared most of the time, it should at least have a real impact when it does.
    * The conditional functionality, this brings us to, is (of course) not nearly as good as Chicken Wings - but can it make a real difference? I am not completely sold on this. Why? Because a rune is nothing I would count on when building an army to fulfill a specific role. But let's do it and take the vanguard example: I get first round - I use a nice banner and the upgrade options to push my block 27" forward. So either I bring them, with this "normal" movement already in a position, that applies pressure on a specific unit - or the enemy's flank - that means, I have to wheel them already at the end of my movement in the movement phase, using the range of this expensively paid trick (So the rune will not be of huge use anymore) OR I push as far as it gets, without wheeling the unit to face the enemy's units and therefore rely on getting it through. The problem is: Every halfway good player will ban those casting attempts- we are easy to snooker, when it comes to our magic. And even if I dared to count on getting it through and it worked - I will have risked it for just 18% of the total movement range it has crossed this round. But was it only 18% of the effort, risk and points put into it. Of course not. In fact it was "only" worth a wheel or reform at the end of the movement. Can this mean a high reward in at least one round of the game? Absolutely! Does this make the rune a good choice already? - I think the pack of conditions speaks for itself. (One additional condition, not mentioned yet: The unit has to be in range for the casting attempt, but it has moved 27 inch when casted - so how do you even get this done? Do you bring a runesmith inside the unit? This means, only one instance of the rune can be tried, or am I missing something? That's a real question - please explain as I want to try this trick out myself in my next games)

    Something else: All positives, anybody can bring to the table when it comes to the rune, can also be applied to raven's wings. Even all synergies. And I doubt that the use of the rune on a Warmachine is better than the Wings. I used RW a lot of times on vanguarding units or fast moving stronger units in my roster. But they are just so much better. This is not a marginal difference: It's 2x the range! And some nice bonuses as well, as you know: Fly, light troops and sweeping attacks.

    It does not mean that the rune is good, just because very good and experienced players (as Lakson or MeuhMeuh) can produce situations, in which the rune can shine, because even them have to put a lot of effort and risk into it. Maybe you thought, "how can I be creative and make use of it?" and you were successfull, to a certain degree. But think about other high risk - high reward builds of the game - they are much stronger. So it either should not be as conditional (as WarX suggests by making it better for forgewardens) or giving it some unique bonus (like fly in case of RW) to make it shine even more in the risky-field.

    (Just my two cents, sorry for the long post.)
  • @Loghaire Thank you for your elaborative description ;)

    What I pointed out (in different thread though) that Rune of Resolve is to weak to pick it multiple times compared to other spells.
    This is the biggest problem!

    All other spells are much more game changers then Resolve and worth picking multiple times.
    BUT if Resolve allow pushing opponent different way then non-relevant 6" or super-risky stuff described by @Loghaire it can be picked multiple times to use it.
  • To me anything that impacts the movement phase has value, and that can be from very different things (magical move, creating unit -chaff-, strong ranged power / strong units creating deadzones, and so on).
    It's true that you don't want resolve twice in your army in everygame, but there's a lot of them where you actually do in my opinion, whatever type of DH army you're playing.
    As I said for me, in an all vanguard rush list the value is immense : getting those 6" more inches is very valuable when you know you're lacking mobility to catch stuff after the first turn. The spell puts a lot of pressure in this way, and if dispelled it allows for the defensive ones to go through and protect your valuable models from ranged attacks. And even when you don't have good targets, you should be left with 4 valuable to cast which should be plenty enough to fill your magic phase.

    It's true that as @Loghaire stated you don't play your movement phase planning out for Resolve to go off, and as such it often limits the viable possiblity the rune offers on your key units. It's overall very match up dependant in this case.

    Also the rune is hella strong for capture scenarios, especially if you have the second (and so, last) turn. It allows for some backdoor scoring possibility, or to keep safe your endangered scorings in capture the flag/spoils of war.

    My statement is just that a magical move in itself have multiple uses and is by nature very strong, especially in a "slow" army. 6" may not seem much and maybe the rune looks lackluster, my own opinion is that it's just fine as it is. And if things must be reworked in our book it should be the real unused stuff (RoMining, Forge Wardens, RoStorms, and that's pretty much it).
  • MeuhMeuh wrote:

    To me anything that impacts the movement phase has value, and that can be from very different things (magical move, creating unit -chaff-, strong ranged power / strong units creating deadzones, and so on).
    It's true that you don't want resolve twice in your army in everygame, but there's a lot of them where you actually do in my opinion, whatever type of DH army you're playing.
    As I said for me, in an all vanguard rush list the value is immense : getting those 6" more inches is very valuable when you know you're lacking mobility to catch stuff after the first turn. The spell puts a lot of pressure in this way, and if dispelled it allows for the defensive ones to go through and protect your valuable models from ranged attacks. And even when you don't have good targets, you should be left with 4 valuable to cast which should be plenty enough to fill your magic phase.

    It's true that as @Loghaire stated you don't play your movement phase planning out for Resolve to go off, and as such it often limits the viable possiblity the rune offers on your key units. It's overall very match up dependant in this case.

    Also the rune is hella strong for capture scenarios, especially if you have the second (and so, last) turn. It allows for some backdoor scoring possibility, or to keep safe your endangered scorings in capture the flag/spoils of war.

    My statement is just that a magical move in itself have multiple uses and is by nature very strong, especially in a "slow" army. 6" may not seem much and maybe the rune looks lackluster, my own opinion is that it's just fine as it is. And if things must be reworked in our book it should be the real unused stuff (RoMining, Forge Wardens, RoStorms, and that's pretty much it).
    Yeah, you may be right. These are quite a lot of situations you have described already and I would have never thought about the objective "backdoor". I will try it out in my next few games and maybe I'll come back to this thread to tell a tale of success. Thanks for the tips.

    Just one thing: The vanguard-trick: How do you build the unit, trying to push the 33"? What kind of support does this unit get? Is is a slayer unit or a deathstar-kind of build? Thanks!
  • @MeuhMeuh Rune of Mining is actually brilliant. The only problem is that possible obstacles on the battlefield are too big for it to be viable. ;)

    I guess your opinion is based on the fact that all Impassable Terrain are too big for our blocks with 9" to pass-through. I play it in most cases to leave open pass for Vengeance Seekers (this is only unit except lone characters that can benefit from it) or for Copters to have safe harbour. Also there are some maps with Water Terrain exactly in a way to March it in Round 1.