Spanish community thoughts - 9th Age issues

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  • Try to flip through the 4 LABs, Circling the Abyss, etc. and mellow out.



    These books are awe-inspiring, especially compared to the resources available. If you focus only on the rules you'll miss all the rest and that's a real pity. If you only focus on the rules you won't see all that has been achieved and can be enjoyed in a non competitive-centric view.

    If you still don't care about Art and Background after watching Lucas Svedberg's, Alberto Bontempi's, Marcos Barragan's, Ollie Cuthbo's, Grégoire Veauléger's, Thomas Carlson's, Johan Aronson's, Krys Rackham's, Ukkuimini's, The Galapalo's, Pawel Jakub Górecki's, John Lewenhagen's, Davide Castelluccio's, Adalidsilvano's, Casp's, Mikhail Shubin's, Michele and Enrico Bertilorenzi's works or reading the Background Team's stories, you can still provide some help joining one or more of T9A's teams, as suggested.



    I like to think T9A's project as a special friend's dinner:
    • If you complain for the food's (game) quality, you do it in a respectful way - as you did
    • You usually don't show up without a bottle of wine or without giving some kind of help, like doing the washing up (giving feedback)
    • Finally, if you don't like a dish (some part of the project), you can come in the kitchen (project), or suggest someone you know to do it*


      *Artist, Artist, Artist, Artist, Artist, Artist, Artist, Artist, Artist, Artist, Artist, Artist, Artist, Artist, Artist, Artist, Artist, Artist

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Grahf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6rP-YP4c5I ().

  • I could see that dinner as a dinner in which we are all sitting around the table, nice chilling, fun,... but the order starts to delay... a bunch of people... and food comes first for some... they finish and then it comes to others... and half of us havent still eaten anything... couple hours later atmosphere is bad, discussions and people is tired of waiting his dinner despite the restaurant is good and food looked amazing... they just get tired, stand up and go... maybe to somewhere else they didnt want to go at first, or less good looking... but where they can eat and not wait hours for their food...

    What I dont want is this special dinner for friends... following your example... So we, spanish community, that in great numbers think this hasnt happened yet... but there are chances to see it happening if some things remain like they are now, are offering our perspective and possible solution... BECAUSE WE DONT WANT ANYBODY TO LEAVE 9TH AGE DINNER TABLE BORED OF WAITING THEIR "FOOD".
    Xhoka Lizards player - Spain

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  • What it was its target porpouse?


    About the inspiration and the bg. I don't know what's going on but it's a slow ride. The think that I regret the most is that basically the heroes of the setting of a wargame are explorators, scientists, secret agents, poets and death people who left messages in bottles.... I would like to know about warriors and soldiers.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Mercenary Armies ().

  • Marcos24 wrote:

    I feel like a “new/redesigned” armybook, with such significant changes at the same levels of the current LAB, without art and background stories would ruin the potential excitement and enthusiasm towards that book.

    New rules and names that would not be explained would just confuse people and cause a flood of questions by players on the forum for the background team.

    Then by the time the art and writing catches up to each book, the excitement would still be at far less potential than if the art/background was released along with the new rules and units and names etc etc. at the same time.

    It’s literally impossible for art and background to keep up with more than 3 armybooks per year. Even 2 is not happening with the few artists that we have. Me and one other that I know of.



    A second point. Change for the sake of change would annoy me as a player to be honest, I would want to take a break from having to relearn stuff and just try another game, then come back to this later. Which I think is ok, but just saying

    Zamo, please read again Marcos24's post it. It is all there.




    Zamo wrote:

    I could see that dinner as a dinner in which we are all sitting around the table, nice chilling, fun,... but the order starts to delay... a bunch of people... and food comes first for some... they finish and then it comes to others... and half of us havent still eaten anything... couple hours later atmosphere is bad, discussions and people is tired of waiting his dinner despite the restaurant is good and food looked amazing... they just get tired, stand up and go... maybe to somewhere else they didnt want to go at first, or less good looking... but where they can eat and not wait hours for their food...

    What I dont want is this special dinner for friends... following your example... So we, spanish community, that in great numbers think this hasnt happened yet... but there are chances to see it happening if some things remain like they are now, are offering our perspective and possible solution... BECAUSE WE DONT WANT ANYBODY TO LEAVE 9TH AGE DINNER TABLE BORED OF WAITING THEIR "FOOD".

    There is no restaurant here, you don't pay for your meal. So example number 1 is off.

    You don't yell (CAPS in your post) to your friend Juan (T9A) if the montaditos (game's direction) he prepared are not to your taste.


    Yet changes will arrive. As far as I know, it has been decided to freeze the rules and shake up the solved meta only through new LABs - guess what? Because we lack of manpower.

    I think this is a decision you can't withdraw in a week, because involves a lot of people, like Translation Teams of just one person (Chinese IIRC) or two, like the Italian one, and other things I can't explain because I am not in PR Team.

    As far as I know, T9A's only currency is manpower: the more the people contribute, the more they decide. If Spanish community is that large, then it can access to a lot of decision-making power, as long the Spanish community joins the ranks and carries this "heavy weight"
    :P




    Pellegrim wrote:

    Grahf wrote:

    ....

    These books are awe-inspiring, especially compared to the resources available. ..
    Bold statement. Imo CtA totally missed it's target purpose, and thus was a pretty staggering waste of effort.
    T9A could do alot more on "focus" of effort
    Can you elaborate, please? Thanks.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Grahf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHwVBirqD2s ().

  • Grahf wrote:

    Can you elaborate, please? Thanks.
    First let me start: huge biggies for all who volunteer and produce 9th Age material. Second: let's also not forget they hold a monopoly over how the game evolves; the ones ultimately responsible are not choses or selected by the players. Thus carefull wieghing of options is of great importance.

    On the CtA. This was the first stand-alone piece of fluff (longer then a paragraph). Antipation was huge. The fans are on terribly hard rations regarding background. This only works due to the excisting WFB legacy. But the first stand alone piece of background. And a fair part of the fanbase can't even read it without having a dictionary next to the screen; and it's still hard to understand what it's about. Not exactly your "Welcome to our world" piece one might have expected.

    But again, all volunteers and all, so we should basically be glad with any piece of fluff. Carefull planning would be helpfull though.
    Booooooaaaaaarsssss .... Chaaaaaaaaaaaaaarge !!!
  • Pellegrim wrote:

    Grahf wrote:

    ....

    These books are awe-inspiring, especially compared to the resources available. ..
    Bold statement. Imo CtA totally missed it's target purpose, and thus was a pretty staggering waste of effort.
    T9A could do alot more on "focus" of effort

    Grahf wrote:

    Try to flip through the 4 LABs, Circling the Abyss, etc. and mellow out.



    These books are awe-inspiring, especially compared to the resources available. If you focus only on the rules you'll miss all the rest and that's a real pity. If you only focus on the rules you won't see all that has been achieved and can be enjoyed in a non competitive-centric view.

    If you still don't care about Art and Background after watching Lucas Svedberg's, Alberto Bontempi's, Marcos Barragan's, Ollie Cuthbo's, Grégoire Veauléger's, Thomas Carlson's, Johan Aronson's, Krys Rackham's, Ukkuimini's, The Galapalo's, Pawel Jakub Górecki's, John Lewenhagen's, Davide Castelluccio's, Adalidsilvano's, Casp's, Mikhail Shubin's, Michele and Enrico Bertilorenzi's works or reading the Background Team's stories, you can still provide some help joining one or more of T9A's teams, as suggested.



    I like to think T9A's project as a special friend's dinner:
    • If you complain for the food's (game) quality, you do it in a respectful way - as you did
    • You usually don't show up without a bottle of wine or without giving some kind of help, like doing the washing up (giving [constructive] feedback)
    • Finally, if you don't like a dish (some part of the project), you can come in the kitchen (project), or suggest someone you know to do it*


      *Artist, Artist, Artist, Artist, Artist, Artist, Artist, Artist, Artist, Artist, Artist, Artist, Artist, Artist, Artist, Artist, Artist, Artist

    I thought marking and adding a bit might be helpful as well.

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  • Pellegrim wrote:

    Grahf wrote:

    Can you elaborate, please? Thanks.
    First let me start: huge biggies for all who volunteer and produce 9th Age material. Second: let's also not forget they hold a monopoly over how the game evolves; the ones ultimately responsible are not choses or selected by the players. Thus carefull wieghing of options is of great importance.
    On the CtA. This was the first stand-alone piece of fluff (longer then a paragraph). Antipation was huge. The fans are on terribly hard rations regarding background. This only works due to the excisting WFB legacy. But the first stand alone piece of background. And a fair part of the fanbase can't even read it without having a dictionary next to the screen; and it's still hard to understand what it's about. Not exactly your "Welcome to our world" piece one might have expected.

    But again, all volunteers and all, so we should basically be glad with any piece of fluff. Carefull planning would be helpfull though.
    Thanks again for the feedback.

    "Second: let's also not forget they hold a monopoly over how the game evolves; the ones ultimately responsible are not choses or selected by the players." Yet community decides in a passive form.


    Not taking a decision is still a decision - if you don't join the ranks and share the weight, you won't take high-level decision.


    Like all short assertions, this one is not able to flesh out the whole picture, still it serves as an exemplification of a very complex reality. If you follow this project from the early days Sir joker was a simple user of the ETC forum, now he is part of RT IIRC.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Grahf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip56iVhkQP8 ().

  • Grahf wrote:

    Zamo, please read again Marcos24's post it. It is all there.
    What do you want to survive?... background or the game? answer yourselves that or just go back some year and ask GW what made it possible for you to start this actual game... Because mistakes from the past should and were intended to be avoided in this game... and many of us fear we might fall in the same mistakes...


    Grahf wrote:

    There is no restaurant here, you don't pay for your meal. So example number 1 is off.
    So your own example is off then. There isnt any friends dinner here. There is a game that, i guess, we all want to see it surviving through years... If you dont want examples just dont make up your own and then reject any kind of comparaison avoiding too the essence of the example and message.


    Grahf wrote:

    You don't yell (CAPS in your post) to your friend Juan (T9A) if the montaditos (game's direction) he prepared are not to your taste.
    I should have used bold. Its not a yell, its emphasizing... againg you're just looking at the dressing and not the message... I thought it was clear I was emphasizing...

    Grahf wrote:

    Yet changes will arrive. As far as I know, it has been decided to freeze the rules and shake up the solved meta only through new LABs - guess what? Because we lack of manpower.
    I keep reading "we lack of manpower" again and again and again... And it makes me think... How was it possible for the staff that began this game some years ago to make 10 times more changes than you, that much work, when they were much less people than you are right now?

    Did they work more or harder or are staff now working less? I just think right now T9A is wasting so much manpower in the project and not the game, which should be the most important thing because without the game you/we have nothing. Back in the past there were some few teams, and much less burocracy than now... Now tons of teams have been created and is has to be desperating... something goes from art team, to background team, that to ABD teams, then to point balance team, then all to legal team, then to marketing, from marketing to ACS, from there to RT, RT say "i dont like that" and lets do it all again... its absurd...

    My two cents is that there is people enough but many are doing irrelevant things that doenst really go for the good sake of the game and improving it, but making some kind of enterprise organization chart cool.

    You should start thinking why so much people has left the staff, why so little people that started this project still remains... (you might find out a harsh truth, maybe they arent happy with how things have changed and the way this game and some of the staff do things...)
    Xhoka Lizards player - Spain

    Guardianes del Sur
    Youtube --> Guardianes del Sur
    Facebook -->Guardianes del Sur
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  • Game = crunch + fluff.


    Without fluff you get a soulless clone of another game, and that is why in the linked video T9A's faction are called with another name: because T9A's identity is not completely fleshed out.

    Without fluff and art I wouldn't be here. I have 0 interest in a "Swedish comp - part 2", if you know what I mean. I have interest in keeping this game at its current level or higher, if possible - I'm talking about books' design, art, and fluff.

    I want T9A to be Scribus' biggest project, I want @Eru's intuition about LaTeX document's design to succeed. I want T9A to be a game, not a rules' set. All other option are not palatable, not for me. T9A porting to Scribus is a unique feature, LaTeX current application is a unique feature, plagiarism is not.
  • Zamo wrote:

    What do you want to survive?... background or the game?
    I think you’re missing a key point. There are different groups of players that are interested in the success for this game but for different reasons. Or maybe not missing it but perhaps your opinions simply differs on what is most important based on the type of players you belong to. That is my guess.

    for me? Background, art, looks (models/table), fluff, is absolutely priority now. At no point in T9A have I been disappointed in the overall game as a set of rules, and yes I have been here since the very start (though maybe only 85-90% of the time as a art staff member). The only issue I have with specific rules are ones I feel are “easy mode”, and ones that break immersion

    However, I’m no GW fan boy and have even gotten to the point where seeing someone referencing the past fluff, or calling the current factions by their predecessors’ names annoys me BIG time. I want this new world as I now think the old one is super cheesy and impractical

    As for change for the sake of changing or to “shake things up”, I understand your guys’ point, but for me reading anything that is not background or fluffy rules is not fun, it’s a necessary chore I must accomplish to play a game. And you want that to be necessary frequently just for the sake of change? No thank you, I wouldn’t get bored of the game, but I’d get fed up with it for sure. There must be a better way, be it scenarios, or objectives, or supplementary books etc etc
  • So. Maybe those who left and are not happy how the game is currently evolving, should create their own game instead of telling others, ey, I want this, and I want it my way. Current T9A team decided to take a course of action, and so far are respecting it. If results are going slower is because lack of manpower, they are crearly stating it over and over. So probably the ones that should start thinking things should be others.

    You say there are many people doing irrelevant things (first of all, can you demonstrate that their work is irrelevant or that the guys working currently are doing less than the ones from before? Or is it just a gut feeling? For me it's just a disrespectful remark for the guys that are currently doing more than me and you; second point, nothing from the past comes close in the level of design and professionalism that the new DL book, for free, has, so I guess you only care about rules, and not all the other things related to an Army Book), and that focusing on the game goes before focusing on the proyect. For me that's just a short-sighted vision, and I applaud they are trying to grow in other ways.
    Different people has different opinions.
    Armies I play: :DH: :O&G: :OK: :SE_bw:
    My hobby's Blog

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Firthunands91 ().

  • You know why I don’t play AoS? Because that universe to me is not interesting. It’s super cheesy in my opinion. Are the rules good? Maybe, that’s subjective. It’s popular so I would say yes it’s probably a fun game . I don’t care, it could be the best set of rules but the background and the factions all suck for my taste, never going to play it.

    It’s also the same reason I’ve tried to get into 40k multiples times with 3 different armies but gave up and sold each of them after each attempt, despite all my club members having an army. And I only ever played one game that I admit was fun
  • I am gratefull for the work of those which Walked in my shoes before me and in every shoe they walked in.

    But please remember, that the decisions they took and the way they worked leaded to the designs we have now on all non LABs.
    They did a terific job, but the old Method had its own Problems.

    Of course I agree that if we could have the pros from both ways of work, that than I would take that in a hearbeat.

    If we cant, than I prefer point changes and 2-3 books a year to minor design changes and 1 book every 1 or 2 years.

    But let us see the positive with the recruitments coming from applications create by this thread I should soon be able to shift some working hours from TA to other also important things.
  • i think that rule change should be' done outside LAB only to gamebreaking problems, as patch.
    Other things can be solved with price changes like now, 2 times per year.

    LABs need time and work outside rules, and that is something that can not be changed.

    What I fear is that some national communities (and I place Italian too) want to play WH 2.0 and not t9a (see the name used in the video) and that is wrong, because like that we will never go on but clings to a past that will never come back.

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