Spanish community thoughts - 9th Age issues

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  • Spanish community thoughts - 9th Age issues

    Hi everyone,

    Im sharing a video of my channel (one of the biggest in Spain) with some interesting feedback and feeling os the spanish community about the status of the game at the moment and its main issues. For the video we have invited @gundizalbo , well known by many as former staff member and member of the external expert analitics.

    You have youtube english subtitles available (they might work fine. Maybe at first they are not available, but they will be as soon as the video is well processed by youtube) so please, I encourage the 9th Age team members interested to listen to what we have to say (thanks for the patience to read subs).

    Anything you like to comment please be free to do it. All this is for the good sake of this beloved game.

    Thanks!

    @fjugin

    Xhoka Lizards player - Spain

    Guardianes del Sur
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    The post was edited 1 time, last by Zamo ().

  • Subs already available!

    IMPORTANT: DUE TO FAST TALK IN THE VIDEO, SUBS SHOW PRETTY QUICK, SO I RECOMEND TO SET THE VIDEO IN A REPRODUCTION SPEED OF 0,75 TO SLOW DOWN A BIT THE SUBTITLES. THANKS AND SORRY FOR THE INCONVENIENCE.
    Xhoka Lizards player - Spain

    Guardianes del Sur
    Youtube --> Guardianes del Sur
    Facebook -->Guardianes del Sur
    Instagram --> Guardianes del Sur
  • PART of the Spanish Community. Plenty of players don't agree with the arguments declared in the video, totally or partially.


    EDIT. I agree internal balance improved more than external, but as said, a) it's early to know how much did it change, and b) it's going in the right direction. Changes in the Arcane Compendium were also really well addressed. I strongly disagree with the idea of the balance patch being disappointing and wanting to reduce time between balance updates. LOTS of players need stability. And better focusing resources into LABs than point changes. Expecting to get 5-6 LABs in a year and 2 balance patchs is completely foolish.
    Armies I play: :DH: :O&G: :OK: :SE_bw:
    My hobby's Blog

    The post was edited 2 times, last by Firthunands91 ().

  • Hi all!

    @Firthunands91, with the way you are expressing yourself seems like only a minority of players want a faster evolution of the game... That is not true. There are plenty of players that want that.

    It is true that people want stability on their armies, but unstability is not what it is promoted on the video... They are talking of a couple of rules changes on the books (if needed) on a first patch and points revision on a second patch. That is not foolish, it is a doable proposition, which give an improve stability to an army for an entire season...

    If you add that to a couple if book rework per year (like this year with ID and DE), the community will have a dinamic but stable game at the same time.

    I personally think that it is a great proposition!
  • great video, thanks for making this.

    i don't necessarily agree with all points (as a non-native speaker, i'm not even sure i understand them all!), but the topic is interesting and the discussion provides a lot of food for thought. for example, just to make one example, i was wondering whether "subjectivity" and "unhappiness" increase as the changes affect things closer to your meta or playstyle.

    in other words, it's interesting that more game-general changes (e.g. items/spells) are generally recognised as positive, while more player-specific changes (e.g. the power level of my army) are not.

    alright, back to watching.


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  • @dOuBLe_RC No, I don't think there's a mayority wanting changes or not. I don't know what the mayority is. There's always going to be 2 camps. And the one that doesn't get it his way is going to complain. It's how it works. And unless there's a gigantic mayority wanting something (that I don't think applies to this case) you can't satisfy both.

    The video clearly states 4-6 LABs per year, and more than 1 balance patch, aswell as changing particular entries in the books (that's another dilemma, where do you draw the line? They already made some rule changes regarding the worst offenders, just for things considered OP, but everyone is going to say their army is the one needing the changes the most, like Irondrakes in DH, Phoenix in HbE, Trolls in OnG, Abo in VS, etc etc... And when those are done, well go for the current 2nd more useless entry on each book).

    You are claiming "a couple of books a year", and that's what the proyect is currently doing. Video doesn't ask for that.

    Thing is, casual players, or not competitive ones, are not as active in the forum or making videos, so it's harder for them to get their voice heard.

    Anyways this has been discussed over and over, plus I'm noone to remind you, and I think most people here is smart enough to don't need someone like me coming to "lecture" them. So, see you!
    Armies I play: :DH: :O&G: :OK: :SE_bw:
    My hobby's Blog

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Firthunands91 ().

  • I think we watched different videos... I invite you to watch it again, as well as I will do.

    There are not saying to rework 6 armies per year... They do say however that it was the original intention, do a couple of books every 3 months... But that was descarted.

    "You are claiming "a couple of books a year", and that's what the proyect is currently doing. Video doesn't ask for that"

    That is exactly what the video is asking for in my opinion; they are not talking of a unrealistic amount of work but a different way to do things...

    And regarding the balance patch... I remind you this year is going to be two as well... the one already done, and one more by December that will be definitive for the rest of the year, with the inconvenient of making those changes mid season...

    They are talking about listening more to the community instead of following blinding the data; there are changes needed that only with points adjustment are not addressed... units overused not because of the power level but because of lack of alternatives... Those changes could be implemented early on the season (end of August/beginning of september) with a all seasons to be tested before the etc. And both casual and competitive players will appretiate the changes, especially if the alternative will be wait a couple of years to change the things that doesn't work in their books.

    Who decide what to change? Well... the community along with the team's formed to implement those changes... it is not hard or crazy...

    None of the both of us are nobody to lecture anybody... We are just expressing our opinions! But I really think you misinterpreted the intention of the video... It is not an unrealistic critic to the 9th age staff members and their amazing (and free) work, but ideas to take care of the community and it needs in order to find a faster but realistic growth!

    See you!
  • Where do you get that is only part of the Spanish community? the vast majority get tired of always playing the same thing,
    You really thought that going down and up 1p, new things were going to be seen, in the great tournament of Spain the same lists are still playing as before
    you have to start making some changes before the lab, goats for example can not be playing the same list for 4 more years
    small changes are needed as armies are removed
  • I support @gundizalbo words.

    One book per year is a very low rate of updates. Next WoDG book Will arrive on 2034! (16 armies, 16 years).

    We need a new book each 4 months. Yes, I know créate a book is very complex and have a lot of stages, specially FAB with pictures and lore.

    So if we cannot accomplish that (3-4 books per year) we should allow 3-4 redesigns per books each year. Improving unused units/ítems in order to shake the meta a bit. And if necessary nerfing another ones.

    With recent changes, my list only lose 1 Vampiric Spawn. (From 8 to 7), thats all for a entire year!. No new units being better or worse, just the same...

    Army Design Team

    Translation-Team ES

    Battlescribe-Mod ES

  • after having watched the whole video (and understood an X% of it), let me try another personal opinion:

    (1) the armybooks are updated very slowly
    (2) players who like stable armybooks (buy & paint miniatures) are happy
    (3) players who like the thrill of listbuilding in a balanced meta are bored

    given this situation, we should strive to make players in (3) happy, without annoying players in (2).
    so far, the idea has been to put out supplements for armies (e.g. Asklanders) and scenarios (e.g. lands).
    however, players in (3) only recognise as interesting the updates to the official armybooks.

    so what if we tried to encourage players in (3) to take advantage of the existing variety?
    without asking for more updates, which will be detrimental to the needs of players in (2)?
    what if big tournaments became more tactical, with more challenging scenarios/maps?
    wouldn't this take some pressure away from the need of providing strategic novelty (i.e. listbuilding)?

    all in all, while some forum users do contribute and volunteer for staff work (including in this thread and in the video above!), the project is still chronically understaffed. so asking for new stuff is nice and all, but i tend to be skeptical of people saying "we want this new thing, why don't you do it?"


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  • Firthunands91 wrote:

    Expecting to get 5-6 LABs in a year and 2 balance patchs is completely foolish.

    Expecting that and not volunteering in the Project, that is a real cheek imho! I only hear the "more changes" scream from people who aren't part of the T9A Teams. Well get your bums up if you want something to change otherwise you can give advice and ideas but the decisions and timeframes are on the people designing rules, adjusting prices and actually spending all that free work into the project. You cannot expect some other people to work faster for free in their spare time because you are bored... My 5 cents.
  • clorens wrote:

    well and where to sign up
    Here is a good spot to find that out.


    Another one is your Profile and there the tab User Groups.

    Advisary Board Member

    Workfields: Tournament Analysis, Army Community Support, Playtesting, Community Engagement, Translation/ United Nations Blog: Inside TA. Admin of the biggest german Tabletop Board: tabletopwelt.de We want you to join the project and apply to staff.
  • A detailed instruction in the usage of that tab will follow tonight.

    Advisary Board Member

    Workfields: Tournament Analysis, Army Community Support, Playtesting, Community Engagement, Translation/ United Nations Blog: Inside TA. Admin of the biggest german Tabletop Board: tabletopwelt.de We want you to join the project and apply to staff.
  • An important message of the video is, "The games is better than ever" and they repeat this a lot of times. Is just some issues about competitive games.

    But they're not talking about changing all books every year, just making little changes or just 1 little change just to modify the meta.

    I don't think that casual players will complaint about that, because they're not talking about changing a lot of things every 3 weeks. just some changes a year. There are a lot of good players (like gundizalbo) that can give good advices / councils about what things are "bad" or could be better...
    Kislev army thread, We need You!
    New Army book Hetmanate of Ukray
  • if you click on your username you should see the following (I circled the User group Tab. the user group management tab is only there if you are allready ina team or a team haed):


    When you click on user group you see the following:

    Now you can browse through te various teams. if you are interested in one, please hit Apply for membership.

    As far as I know the following teams are currently recruiting:

    - HR, HR, HR and HR.

    - ACS

    - TA (Be aware that TouS and DA were merged under that one and apllying for them gets no reply)

    - Layout

    - also many Translation Teams and UN Teams are recuiting

    - If you have a Podcast or a Youtube Channel than CE could be something for you, too.

    Advisary Board Member

    Workfields: Tournament Analysis, Army Community Support, Playtesting, Community Engagement, Translation/ United Nations Blog: Inside TA. Admin of the biggest german Tabletop Board: tabletopwelt.de We want you to join the project and apply to staff.
  • Hello.

    Well, I would like to explain some thing of the video because I understand that it´s not easy to understand with subtitles.

    First of all, we talk that we have the feeling that latest update had focused in Internal Balance of every book but not that much in external balance. We said that the game is now better as before and this update was a step in the good direction, we are sure about this.

    But we have the feeling that this update could have been much better. First, with more focus on external balance (with more iterations can be done, but with a deep understanding of competitive level can be done faster). But more important. Updates takes to many time and to little changes, and we have bad feelings here.

    We talk about how started the project. With the promise that every unit and rule could be chanbged in order to have a better game for community. At the beggining, there was many changes and many tries, to many. Wasn´t be best situation but thanx to that, now the game is probably the best. Was really obvious that the number of updates had to be controlled (1 update ever month was to much).

    Now we have 1 update per year and only points changes. So we go from the biggest left to the biggest right. Many books haven´t seen a real change in 2 years,

    Our biggest fear here, is that many books could wait to many time to have an update (even 6-8 years at this step). We understand that create a new book is not easy, takes a lot of work and need time. We apreciate the work from voluntears (I have been part of the project in balance team and design team and I know all the work is behind). But we just wanted to propose not to forget "old" books while new books are written.

    We suggest that there could be 2 updates per year. One in october/november that could incluse some design changes (just to fix unplayable units/items) and one in March focus only on design and points. We think is a really good solution to keep moving old books improving balance. This way that game could keep evolving with new books but balance and old books won´t be forgotten. The game still being really stable.

    We have talked with many (of course not all) members from spanish community and most of them would like to see minor changes in metagame at competitive level. In order to have this, we have proposed what we said (minor changes in old books when needed and focus on external balance, not only in statistic and data, and I said not only. Data is really importand, but understanding army situation is also important).

    Thank you very much and sorry for the big amount of spanish trashtalk in the video (I really love to engage with Zamo). We could have said the same in half time.
    Gonzalo
  • @gundizalbo: Thank you for the explanations.

    At TA we are at the moment working on ways to far easier and faster evaluate the influence of changes on the External balance and to meassure the internal one more precise.

    Also thank you for your work. I always liked to work with you. I had a bläst in our game at ETC. It was my favourite loss.

    Advisary Board Member

    Workfields: Tournament Analysis, Army Community Support, Playtesting, Community Engagement, Translation/ United Nations Blog: Inside TA. Admin of the biggest german Tabletop Board: tabletopwelt.de We want you to join the project and apply to staff.
  • PETREOPATROKLOS wrote:

    With recent changes, my list only lose 1 Vampiric Spawn. (From 8 to 7), thats all for a entire year!. No new units being better or worse, just the same...
    I think this a feature, not a bug. Your list, which probably strong is still playable and you don't have to substantively change it. However, now new list hopefully exist at the same power level. So you have the option to keep playing the same thing, but play a different list with out feeling knee capped for not playing your old list.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by The Changing Constant: grammar ().