What you will do ?

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  • What you will do ?

    I would like to know what our fellow cold blooded sisters and brothers would have done if they could change the next patch. There's a new/final patch in december as i understand and after few games maybe you have some thought about point changes.

    Maybe we can use this format as it is easier without big argumentation and just say what we believe this is the best for SA and the game balance in general. So if you can just argue few sentence when you can explain your increase or dropping point. It can be interesting and easy to read for everyone. Maybe it can lead to a common vision for SA.

    I just take some precaution as it should be points dropping or increasing and very rare rules changing. (i mean there are armies with new special rules so why not us). Well and have fun with the Thyroscustus lol !

    In blue what we think. Otherwise let it like that

    Special Items:
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    • Wildfire Burst 75 ↘70 60 (i think this is just a bad weapon in general lol)
    • Serrate Scales 65 ↘ 60
    • Sphere of Shielding 80 ↘ 75
    Ancient Plaque 80 ↗ 75
    Starfall Shard 75 ↘ 60 65
    Jade Staff 60 ↗ 70
    • Sun Tablet 40 ↗ 45 50 i believe this is a major magic item so even if it's increasing people will take it
    Obsidian Tesseract 35 ↘ 25 25 i actually like this artefact


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    Caiman Ancient, base cost 210 ↘ 200 with 150 magic item points OR +1 Offensive Skill in caiman unit
    Cuatl Lord: ==> 500pts yes it needs to be more expensive he is powerfull i rather increase point for him and decrease TG
    – Master of Reality 135 ↘ 130– Grasp of the Immortal 120 ↗ 130– Ancient Knowledge 95 ↘ 85– Breaker of Spells 70 ↘ 60– Protean Potentate 70 ↘ 65– Soulfire Weaver 150 ↘ 120 all discipline are ok like this i believe, maybe Soulfire Weaver can be drop but it doesn't change that much
    • Saurian Veteran:– Base cost 180 ↘ 175– Raptor 120 ↘ 110– Carnosaur 270 ↘ 245
    Saurian Warlord:– Carnosaur 260 ↘ 230– Alpha Carnosaur 490 ↗ 520 420 at least !
    Skink Captain:– Base cost 80 ↘ 75 – Alpha Rhamphodon 85 ↘ 80 – Taurosaur 435 ↘ 420
    Skink Priest drop to 100 well he is not powerfull wizard without palanquin or sun tablet:– Skink Palanquin 60↗ 80 80 i keep like this it doesn't surprise me this is powerfull and usefullTaurosaur 435 ↘ 410

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    Saurian Warriors:270 and 20ppm just a personnal thought, saurian are strong and having for 15ppm makes them one of the best core unit, and also stronger than the elite ! It's weird – Jaguar Totem 2 ↘ 1– Crocodile Totem 5 ↘ 4
    Skink Braves:– Base cost 140 ↘ 135– Additional models 8 ↘ 7 5 Make skinks great again add javelin +2 – Caiman 90 ↘ 80


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    Caimans:– Base cost 210 ↘ 205– Great Weapon 6 ↘ 5
    Raptor Riders:– Base cost 270 ↘ 260– Additional models 50 ↘ 45
    Snake Swarms:– Base cost 130 ↘ 125– Additional models 40 ↘ 30– Scout 12↘ 7
    Temple Guard:– Base cost 365 ↘ 355– Additional models 32 ↗ 33 28 or AP 2 Make Temple Guards great again !

    Jungle Guerillas:

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    Chameleons:– Base cost 130 ↗ 135– Additional models 20 ↘ 18
    Rhamphodon Riders:– Base cost 215 ↗ 220– Additional models 62 ↘ 60– Shield 8 ↗ 9
    Skink Hunters, additional models 14 ↘ 12
    Weapon Beasts– Base cost 135↗ 140– Additional models 130 ↘ 115
    Pteradon Sentries– Base cost 190 ↘ 185– Additional models 35 ↘ 25– Shield 8 ↘ 5– Fire Bola 1 ↘ free

    Thunder Lizards:

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    Stygiosaur:– Base cost 305 ↘ 295– Mystic Traveller 110 ↗ 120
    Taurosaur:– Base cost 450 ↗ 455– Great Bow (3+) 20 ↘ free– Engine of the Ancients 90 ↗ 100
    Thyroscutus:– Base cost 320 ↘ 280– Sun Engine free ↗ 15 Female Thyroscutus :love: +20 gain scoring. Sorry i just add fun oups !

    Your turn !
  • Would go also for very few small changes:

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    -1 to cast for boosted version

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    Serrate Scales -10 pts
    Taurosaur Vigor: wearer-->bearers model parts + not allowed for models with Gigantic
    Jadestaff -15 pts
    Starfallshard +20 pts and 2+ -->3+ vs Flamming
    Obsidian Tesseract -10 pts

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    Babycarnosaur +40 pts and Armour C+1
    Alpha Carnosaur -30 pts
    Soulfire -50 pts
    Ancient Knowlege -5 pts
    Skinkpriest -5 pts
    Palanquin -10 pts
    Plaque of Snake God -25 pts
    Giantbow +15 pts

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    Crocodile Totem -1 ppm and +1AS vs everything
    Poisoned Javelins no Jungle Guerilla category but 0-2 per army

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    TG -2 ppm
    Raptor Riders +1 Agi

    Jungle Guerillas
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    Slamander -15 ppm
    Skink Hunters/Chameleons/Pteradons Campion -10 pts

    Thunder Lizards
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    Thyroscutus +1 Dis and Snake Altar -15 pts
  • I will leave the scaly ones After Update, cause i Dont Feel some synergies. Max ld8 cause of coldblooded and extra payment for cold Blooded. Every Rat Laughs at us. T2 skinks in Core. Protean on cuatl is good but Not for ws 2/3 Units. And Temple Guard to expensive for what they are. There were very few entrys competitive before, but all got destroyed (Book sun Tablet) or are now much to expensive if i See what Others can bring to the table. Maybe the way how Point adjustments work is Not good. And Hope scalys will be Great again in Future
  • Nice Idea @Aeon.

    Me :"Free item for characters, halfed the price of every one and ... Oh ! Oh ! Oh ! I know ! A snake god in characters section for 1800pts with the rule "you automatically win this game"(but only me)! :drink: "
    9th age team : :redcard:
    Me : "okay... Okay... " :god:
    more seriously :
    As i said many many time, the army equilibrium is really good internally. And i thank the 9th age team for their hardwork. And i thank them to allow me playing DINOSAURS <3
    But i feel we lack external balance...

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    I'll still break the combo Sun tablet + Book of arcane = sun tablet \40pts
    Wildfire \ 50-60pts never see this item...
    Starfall / 70 pts, 3+ against fire, too strong actually

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    Cuatl :
    he's actually expensive for what he bring when we see the price of other master. Ok he has TL, 4++ is actually great but don't cost 100+ pts.
    - make him /500 pts and give one free discipline (cheap one or something that make the difference between him and other young race master) and-or stand behind rule (but need something to bring back TG...).
    - \450 pts and stay as it is ?

    Warlord :
    Alpha carno is The Big issue... That's a bit of an headache for me... He is very good when against Big monster or multi PV, but lack in mobility/easily chaff... And si don't often see fight against what he is good against.
    - \ 490pts
    - stay as it is and armor 5 ? :huh: an Idea which pop out in my head. Not really sure...

    CA : price is ok
    - Item alloyance +50 ?
    - interaction with some unités ? (Caïman)
    - option to automatically have raptor spirit and move this item from out artefacts ?

    Skink Priest :
    - palanquin \ 65-70 pts
    - snake tablet \ 20-25 pts

    Core :
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    Saurian warriors :
    Crocodile -1pts/ against Evert attack.
    Mat i Ask for -1pts ppm, but it's very prétentions because they are really good as they are.

    Skink :
    - res 3 or -2ppm. And /5pts ppm Caïman

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    Raptor riders : not good but not bad. maybe \ 10pts start and -2/-3 ppm ?
    Or agi 3.

    Temple Guard :
    X/ X/ X/ far too expensive if you want to protect tour cuatl. Need more interaction between them for the same price or decrease pts
    -Same cost but, Bodyguard (cuatl), parry (every side if with cuatl ?), (+1Ap? Still less than F6 AP 3)
    - \ 29-30 ppm

    Jungle guerilla :
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    Salamanders : \ 10-15 ppm
    Pteradon : champion \ 10 as they don't often see fight ?
    Other are good.

    Thunder go... Lizard :
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    Moaaaaar ! MOOOAAAAAAR DINOSOOOAAAAR ! <3 <3 <3

    Thyro :
    - /290-300pts and give him :
    Counter charge : the unit which charge him take 1hit per model in the first rank / 2d3 hits Agi 10 with strengh 5/6 AP 2/3 pm -> the ankylosaure defend themselves with their tail : make the thyro like a Real one :headbanging:
    - scoring for +20pts
    - \260pts naked - \275pts with snake altar - \290pts with Sun engine.

    Cheers !
    You have all my support Ô 9th age team ! :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
  • @raven if I don't agree with all your suggestions, I join your enthusiasm for dinosaurs :)

    Items: I don't think item combos should be discouraged. SA never had an overpowered item combo before. Anything that might have been too powerful was actually a design decision at the initial stage, like grasp + ancient. Than I guess people complained and they were removed. Bit by bit SA army lost all combos.
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    Tablet + Jade Staff : should be total 100pts to allow on priest. Would open up more options for alternative master (4 spells) on palanquin. IT IS 370p for a FAKE WIZARD MASTER! It is not gonna break game or anything, just don"t stop it.
    Serrated scales: 30-40pts. Consider: str5ap2 for saurus is not huge. Every saurus hero has it as base. So if they take items it is to increase strength or armor rather than increase attack nos. And for skinks: Nobodys gonna make a skink CC hero unless dragonfire gem+hero's heart+serrated scales on pteradon becomes a thing. Otherwise skink captains are chaff > cheap is better. So this item is not taken. To remedy it should cost much less than dusk forged; and allow possible combos with other items.
    Wildfire Burst: 65pts max. Item is good. On a long distance shooty army it could be too good. On this army where you can only shoot at enemy when you can see the white in their eyes, not so good. SO: allow combo to create a harassing skink hero; possible interaction with pteradon with basalt+wildfire.. BSB on Great Bow Tauro... 3+ without cover. He cannot take starfall shard but can take obsidian+aether icon. Such things should not be seen as blasphemy, but feasible combos that people should consider in their lists.. The limit is, they will not be able to afford all of these in a single list. The fact that you can only have one of each item is another factor.
    Starfall Shard: 70pts. Sooner or later, price drop on this item will cause a (further) price increase on other characted mount options. Better to balance it before. 70 pts, Again, allow me to take 2xaether icon on my skink BSB on tauro. Downside: I still cannot combo it with spirit of stampede.

    Glory of Dawn Age: +1 ap. It gives extra strength but it is still a spear. I think giving +1ap will not increase its powerlevel or its use ratio.
    Raptor Spirit: Max.65pts. Item designed for Caiman ancient, now only usable for Warlord. Good, but warlord has a lot of options with 200pts allowance. Meanwhile Caiman ancient is suffering.. 65pts can give some synergy, not just basalt bu also allow at least something like supernatural dexterity or potion of aglitiy.
    Poison Banner: 0-3 in army, 25pts. I think will see more use with cheaper skinks now, but no hatred or poison on caimans is a downside for big blocks. This item will not become a hit unless skinks are 5-6ppm OR res3 finally.. Unless.. You can make it cheap enough to use in MMU skink blocks..
    Totem of Sir Mix-a-lot: 65 or even 55pts. I know sounds silly. Currently Usable only with Templeguards or raptors. Has to be cheap for more synergy with non templeguard units. Caiman ancient, or veteran BSB. As it is it can either be templeguard, it is good when you get that turn5 multi charge on your face... You screwed up and maybe 1 more turn you can save enough templeguards to keep your coatl on back row. Otherwise this item cannot be used on anything. Raptor blocks will never become a thing, neither are skink blocks..

  • Agree with you, more or less. :D

    The combo book + tablet was really good.

    The main problem of our army is the absolute lack of synergy... That bring us to play strong units. But in the last update, points were adjusted, wich bring a good internal balance. But we loose in external balance at the end (the more i play, the more i think we are on the loosing side )
  • My vision for the Saurus Army
    A rough draft for a full army revision?

    New Special Rules

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    Crocodile Skin: +1 Armor on Close Combat

    Mystical Attunement: Character gains special ability based on Coatl's chosen magic path:
    Evocation: Generate a veil token if they deal wound (one per round of combat)? Or if win combat?
    Alchemy: Gains flaming attacks if they become target of alchemy spell (enemy or friendly)
    Divination: Counts towards wizard conclave.
    Pyromancy: Aegis against flaming attacks.
    Protean: ??

    Guardian of the Pinnacle: Upgrade for Veteran and warlord, only possible with Coatl general.
    Must be in same unit as Coatl.
    Gain stubborn.
    Has Mystic Attunement Rule
    Must accept challenge for Coatl.
    May be BSB.
    Becomes frenzy if Coatl dies.

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    Coatl: Should be cheaper. But if not:
    Symbiosis included in base telephaty, instead Symbiosis should give coatl ability to cast spells of other telephatic link wizards.
    No pts limit on disciplines, instead
    One main and one support dicipline; such as
    Grasp, master of reality, breaker of spells, protean potentate - main disciplines.
    Support disciplines: In addition to trained from birth,
    One discipline to choose for every path of magic. Means; two more disciplines for pyro and alchemy.
    Mount option: Thyroscutus, obviously. The thyro would benefit from Coatl's 4++, while coatl would be free from having to choose between 15 skink fodder or temple guard block.

    Warlord: Need cooler name. Warlord is better suited to barbarian army.
    Not many changes needed for this guy to be honest.
    Mount option: Mounts need to be cheaper, most especially the raptor.
    Alpha: Should increase allowance of Thunder Lizards.

    Not much change needed. Raptor option should be cheaper.

    Skink Priest: Improved Symbiosis will balance their points.
    Mounts: Palanquin should be cheaper.
    Pteradon mount option: Elves have eagle wizards, so why not skinks? Add also the fact they are only res 3, 3 wounds, and their leadership is very low. They will be easy to destroy for enemy, balancing their usefulness.

    Skink captains: They are in a good place now, though their role as only chaff is kind of sad.
    I think tauro BSB will get more love this season.

    Caiman Ancient: Crocodile skin: +1 armor against close combat attacks. Give this to caimans and also crocodile saurus.
    Also somebody in forum had suggested "Ancient Lurker" upgrade, An ambush character. May be limited to water, forest and ruin terrains for balance.
    I like this idea, as a kind of hunter that is left behind to guard old holy sites, and attack aything that comes to desecrate it.

    Avatar of the Feathered Serpent: You know it, it is the giant snake from Lost Kingdom Minis that only rich people have unfortunately :D
    T9A should capitalize on this model, if only to encourage other model makers to come up with new interesting models/minis.
    The rules, I think it should be a wizard master; could be druidism master. Fly, Ward save. Survivable in CC.
    Special attack or spell with thunder, lightning, rain... etc. Could be sweeping attack. May be place water terrain on table.
    Crucially; Cannot be general, but can be BSB.
    Count towards thunder lizards

    We need more variety and fun. I tried without introducing too many new models..
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    Allow mix-matching Saurus Totems. By the way I suggest "strain" over totem; gives better impression that saurus are bio-engineered, as opposed to superstitious totem bearers.
    10 unit saurus should make a comeback, if for nothing else, than as cheap-o bunker.
    Serpent: Remove fight in extra rank; only +1 agi.
    Croc: Make their ability universal, with crocodile skin upgrade.

    Res 3, and be done with it. Them being res 2 is not only a big balance issue; but also doesn't make any sense fluff wise. Are they made of cotton candy?
    Javelins: may be added with skirmish, 10 people units. Makes perfect sense.

    Saurus Cavalry:
    Of/Def 3, 2+ armor save, allow strains. This means we could choose: Cavalry with +1 move, +1 agi, fear or +1 armor at CC: all of these upgrades are great for our cavalry, adding something to remedy one of their drawbacks

    Every other army has some sort of core fast cav. SA should too. Pteradons in core, count towards jungle guerilla. To balance points, release rocks as additional upgrade.

    Raptor Herd:
    This unit could make sense based on fluff. If raptors are savage beasts of the jungle, we could have this unit. If they are yet another of Old Ones' bio engineering, or they bond with saurus warriors at birth, not so much.
    Light cav. As a drawback, these could be with low LD and frenzy, to note that they are savage beasts without a handler.
    Handler upgrade? Skink or Saurus?

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    Temple Guard:
    They are too expensive. Also, they are not super interesting. I'll try to make their role as personal bodyguard of slann bit more pronounced.
    Bodyguard: Coatl only. Because saurus general don't need no bodyguard; they are badass..
    Possible ideas: Unit champion gains "may accept duel in Coatl's place" and Arcane attunement(see special rules, above). This could stop Omen of Savar from one shot...
    Idea is that these are different breed of Saurus, without "strains" but with better skills. Overtime, continues exposure to Coatl's magical auras generate some special abilities on them.

    Snake swarms:
    They are not as useful as they seem at first.. Hoping enemy rolls 1's a lot while you roll 6s a lot is a good strategy only when you have already lost :)
    However their rule is fluffy and I would like it to stay, just may be cheaper.
    Could be moved to jungle guerilla to justify cheapness.

    They are not too bad actually. But.. They are missing something. It is probably a magical banner; but some sort of special rule also..
    Hence Crocodile Skin (+1 armor against CC).

    Should be in special, since they are not much like our usual hit ad run guerilla.. They are pretty much assault squad.
    Vanguard can be option.

    Jungle Guerilla:
    As I said, I think Rhampos should be in special, Snake swarms could be here, and Pteradons should be core but count towards JG

    Chamelons and Hunters: I don't have enough experience with them, but they seem to be fine and perform as expected.

    Weapons Beasts: Their role as chaff was nerfed, but still possible.

    Thunder Lizards:
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    Tauros: They are at limit of being too expensive.
    Engine: Likewise, it cannot keep going up in price. Also metal shifting attack: Anybody use it? May be allow it at CC.

    Stygiosaur: Could stay as is I think.

    Thyro: ... need to think... Would be incredible as a Coatl mount; since the monster would benefit from 4++ save of coatl, while freeing us from choice between 15 skink cannon fodder or templeguard block.
    As a monster on its own not useful in current way.

    Carnosaur Knights:
    I suggested in another thread. Just 3 large cavalry with of/def4 Saurus warriors with light armor and shield. 3+, res5 Large Cavalry with MW2 against large. keep carnosaur profile same. Allow character on carno to join. But not Alpha (add rule: Alpha cannot join units)
    Lost kingdom miniatures ezocamatl knights models look like they can be great.

    Brontosaur: We need this or something like this in our army list :)
    I envision something like a moving siege engine/ziggurat.
    Very tough, lots of HP. On giant base (100x100 or 150).
    Lots of skinks and 2 great bows. Double stomps, and/or may stomp large and mounted models special rule.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Eymuster ().

  • some small ideas from my side

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    Raptor Riders Core
    190pts + 30pts/extra model 5-12 models 0-2 Units/Army
    Adv Mar Dis Model Rules
    7" 14" 8 Cold-Blooded, Scoring, Franzy
    HP Def Res Arm
    1 3 4 3 Schild
    Att off Str Ap Agi
    2 3 4 1 2 Born Predator, Handweapon
    2 3 4 1 2 Harnest
    Lance +2pm

    Raptor Knights Spezial
    260 pts + 45 pts/extra model 5–12 models 0–2 Units/Army
    Adv Mar Dis Model Rules
    7" 14" 8 Cold-Blooded, Scoring,
    HP Def Res Arm
    1 4 4 4 Schild
    Att off Str Ap Agi
    2 4 4 1 2 Born Predator,Lance, Dev. Charge (+1agi)
    2 3 4 1 2 Harnest

    Temple Guard Spezial
    350 pts + 31 pts/extra model 15–30 models
    Adv Mar Dis
    4" 8" 8 Bodyguard (Quatl), Cold-Blooded, Fearless, Scoring
    HP Def Res Arm
    1 4 4 2 Light Armour, Shield
    Att off Str Ap Agi
    2 4 4 1 2 Born Predator, Cobalt Club
    Cobalt Club: Handweapon.
    Attacks made with this weapon gain +2 Strength and count as Handweapon.