square bases for AoS + solid basis for T9A

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  • But generic fluff is still fluff. There are a thousand settings out there that don't have rat people. Or orcs, elves and dwarfs, for that matter. Adn then there's all the settings where dwarves don't have high tech, orcs don't have an association with goblins, or aren't huge and muscly and elves aren't associated with dragons.
    I have whirl’d with the earth at the dawningWhen the sky was a vaporous flameI have seen the dark universe yawning,
    Where the black planets roll without aim;
    Where they roll in their horror unheeded, without knowledge or lustre or name.
  • Eldan wrote:

    But generic fluff is still fluff. There are a thousand settings out there that don't have rat people. Or orcs, elves and dwarfs, for that matter. Adn then there's all the settings where dwarves don't have high tech, orcs don't have an association with goblins, or aren't huge and muscly and elves aren't associated with dragons.
    The point would be to create a system without need to create extensive background, just generic one, limited to race names and some as generic as possible weapon names. Not to create 'Generic Universal Wargaming System' a'la Gurps RPG. 2 pages of fluff not 200, no art. A very sad product IMO.
  • Kristian wrote:

    Kodos der Henker wrote:

    dan wrote:

    Kodos der Henker wrote:

    Why people think that they will add anything from AoS to the new game? If you don't know what Horus Heresy is and how it works next to 40k, you should inform yourself about it before you make thinks up.
    At this point we have a name and a logo. All of this discussion is speculation and, by extension, entirely made up, including your implication that the game will run alongside AoS in the way Horus Heresy runs alongside 40K.
    No, that it will run alongside AoS in the same way as HH runs alongside 40k is an official statement regarding the new game from GW.It is not only the name and logo but we know also that it will be like HH is for 40k, including that development will be done by ForgeWorld
    I think you need to read the article again mate.

    And you should watch the Teaser Video were the Community guy talks with the ForgeWorld guy
  • JimMorr wrote:

    Eldan wrote:

    What does "no fluff, just stats" even mean? Would you like to play Army 7/16?
    Background-agnostic rule system. I can really imagine such game. I can even imagine T9A evolving into one. Wouldn't like to play it though.
    Generic Races like Ratman would have to stay. Units you call using some generic names. Use 1-3 keywords like Light, Line, Heavy, Guard, Auxiliary, Garrison, Siege, Assault, Volunteer, Engineering, Airborne and unit type Infantry, Cavalry, Beasts, Artillery, Construct.

    Ratman army:
    Slaves - Auxiliary Infantry
    Foodpads - Light Infantry
    Rat-at-arms - Line Infantry
    Verminguard - Guard Infantry
    Plague Monks - Volunteer Infantry
    Giant Rats - Auxiliary Beasts
    Plague Disciples - Assault Light Infantry
    Vermin Hulks - Assault Heavy Infantry (Siege Heavy Infantry for thunderhulks)
    Rat Swarms - Light Beasts
    Meatgrinder - Assault Engineering Infantry
    Gutterblades - Light Guard Infantry
    Weaponteam - Siege Engineering Infantry
    Jezzail - Garrison Heavy Infantry
    Grenadiers - Siege Light Infantry
    Cannon - Garrison Artillery
    Catapult - Siege Artillery
    Dreadmill - Assault Construct
    Abomination - Heavy Beast

    And here you go :)
    this the way Dragon Rampant Does it.
  • It does create competition for t9a (and others) and that has the potential to split the community
    .

    I think the two major areas:

    If some perceive gw as having a better community (and they have been making strides in this area) ppl will go there.

    And when comp starts. When ppl start comping gw balance, if ppl are happy with that they will go here.

    We already know t9a community is a fickle beast (too much change, not enough. Game is balanced, too much op etc).

    Be interesting to see what comes out of it

    9th does have a few things going for it, comparatively balanced, genuine rank and flank, free etc.
  • SenecaJr wrote:

    Why are so many people cool with having no fluff?

    I get that everyone here loves tournament play but there’s a big segment of players who love reading fluff and the hobby aspect of modeling, concerting and painting.

    Fluff and lore give identity. Then people get into the hobby. I’m in on ninth age because the Dark Gods book is inspiring and badass. It makes me want to join the backstory team. It made me try to get 3 other players in on it.

    Especially if it’s just “better rules, better balance” - look at what companies who already have that pitch are doing, like Mantic. They’re desperately trying to write better fluff. Churn out cooler things to do with the armies, and to enjoy the hobby.
    This one is fairly easy to answer. The majority of 9th Age players are WHFB vets who have multiple army books of their factions collecting dust on shelves. In those old magical tomes the background of their forces is described in detail which is repeated in later tomes for the next editions over and over again.
    These people joined 9th Age to have rules first and maybe fluff second as their conflicts still take place in the Old World but without the capitalistic rules enforcement of the sheriffs of Nottingham.
  • If the ninth Age can live alongside The Old World will come down to resources GW will invest into the rules.

    If GW handles the competetive scene like 40k they could head into a interesting game.

    40k this editon is split into 3 categories

    Casual / narrative / matched play

    Two weeks after each Codex release there is a FAQ cleaning up the obvious mistakes

    Then bi yearly they release a big FAQ handling pionts and rules adjustments for each race (mostly after big tournaments in the US)

    Also bi yearly they release a book called Chapter approved, where they takle on bugs in the game (for example the rule of three (where you can't play a unit except core more the three times))

    Forgeworld gets the same handling. After the first Chapter approved they increased the points of FW units often by the double or triple amount then before.



    If GW sees a competitive community rising they showed that they can adjust.
    On the other side, they have to because they still release facepalming rules left and right.

    I have to admit that I am pretty hyped about that news.
    And if GW makes its game close to the sixt or seventh edition I might wonder off.
    (Unfortunately ninth age haven't catched me yet)
  • Kodos der Henker wrote:

    Kristian wrote:

    Kodos der Henker wrote:

    dan wrote:

    Kodos der Henker wrote:

    Why people think that they will add anything from AoS to the new game? If you don't know what Horus Heresy is and how it works next to 40k, you should inform yourself about it before you make thinks up.
    At this point we have a name and a logo. All of this discussion is speculation and, by extension, entirely made up, including your implication that the game will run alongside AoS in the way Horus Heresy runs alongside 40K.
    No, that it will run alongside AoS in the same way as HH runs alongside 40k is an official statement regarding the new game from GW.It is not only the name and logo but we know also that it will be like HH is for 40k, including that development will be done by ForgeWorld
    I think you need to read the article again mate.
    And you should watch the Teaser Video were the Community guy talks with the ForgeWorld guy

    You are right, but the statement from the video is only that TOW is to AoS like HH is to 40k as a setting. It's the FW guy everyone keeps pointing at.
    If you really want to spin it like that, just based on product: 1 plastic box, then FW support. It still says nothing about scale, range, or anything else. But if it is a FW game the best you can hope for is Warmaster. Whatever it is, a FW game is DOA because they can't support all armies. Many people will be very unhappy.

    If they can, GW will add Stormcasts to the old world. Some interpret "return" literally. The old world exists in AoS, it's just a compressed something. Techno mages might gain access and there you go.

    All of this is speculation, the only things we know 100% are a declaration of intention of something with a return to square and set in the old world. They spend a lot of time and effort on a logo to show they really really mean it.
    In corporate speech, that's as good as saying the sun will rise tomorrow. It is true but means nothing.
  • Haunted Forest wrote:

    These people joined 9th Age to have rules first and maybe fluff second as their conflicts still take place in the Old World but without the capitalistic rules enforcement of the sheriffs of Nottingham.
    Except T9A are and will be developing their own fluff and designing the FAB around that. T9A's fluff will be different to the GW's fluff by necessity, so the more T9A change the more people may be prepared to return to GW.

    It depends if T9A can capture the same army feel without encroaching on IP and that's a very hard thing to do.

    Little Joe wrote:

    If they can, GW will add Stormcasts to the old world. Some interpret "return" literally. The old world exists in AoS, it's just a compressed something. Techno mages might gain access and there you go.
    I don't see them doing this as the main reason they're rebooting this is because people love the old world. Adding stormcasts would ruin the feel of it and actually, they're already there. Stormcasts are linked into Sigmar, so the Empire would be the precursors to Stormcast Eternals.
    Never argue with Idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
  • Sir_Sully wrote:



    It depends if T9A can capture the same army feel without encroaching on IP and that's a very hard thing to do.
    I don't see them doing this as the main reason they're rebooting this is because people love the old world. Adding stormcasts would ruin the feel of it and actually, they're already there. Stormcasts are linked into Sigmar, so the Empire would be the precursors to Stormcast Eternals.

    I strongly believe that, at this point, the only way T9A can take is to be bold and different from the legacy.

    "Being similar" is a lose-lose.

    Being bold, both with fluff and rules is the only way giving a chance to us.

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    Armies of Fluff: because narration is important - a blog about fluffing your army.
    Armies of Fluff: repository of my unofficial short stories and excerpts

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  • VisconteDimezzato wrote:

    I strongly believe that, at this point, the only way T9A can take is to be bold and different from the legacy.

    "Being similar" is a lose-lose.

    Being bold, both with fluff and rules is the only way giving a chance to us.
    That may be true. I guess we'll find out in a few years
    Never argue with Idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
  • Little Joe wrote:

    Kodos der Henker wrote:

    Kristian wrote:

    Kodos der Henker wrote:

    dan wrote:

    Kodos der Henker wrote:

    Why people think that they will add anything from AoS to the new game? If you don't know what Horus Heresy is and how it works next to 40k, you should inform yourself about it before you make thinks up.
    At this point we have a name and a logo. All of this discussion is speculation and, by extension, entirely made up, including your implication that the game will run alongside AoS in the way Horus Heresy runs alongside 40K.
    No, that it will run alongside AoS in the same way as HH runs alongside 40k is an official statement regarding the new game from GW.It is not only the name and logo but we know also that it will be like HH is for 40k, including that development will be done by ForgeWorld
    I think you need to read the article again mate.
    And you should watch the Teaser Video were the Community guy talks with the ForgeWorld guy
    You are right, but the statement from the video is only that TOW is to AoS like HH is to 40k as a setting. It's the FW guy everyone keeps pointing at.
    If you really want to spin it like that, just based on product: 1 plastic box, then FW support. It still says nothing about scale, range, or anything else. But if it is a FW game the best you can hope for is Warmaster. Whatever it is, a FW game is DOA because they can't support all armies. Many people will be very unhappy.
    Many people will be unhappy anyway, depending if they take on 5th, 6th, 8th or Warmaster in 28mm as base for their rules

    Same as many will be disappointed if we see just expensive rules first, and factions added slowly after with 2 per year, similar to HH.

    And the Horus Heresy will end in about the same timeframe given for the new game to be released.
    So FW has the capacity to support by that time.

    and in the end GW does not care how many people are unhappy as there will be enough to buy the 1 large and expensive plastic box to be worth it
  • Kodos der Henker wrote:

    Many people will be unhappy anyway, depending if they take on 5th, 6th, 8th or Warmaster in 28mm as base for their rules
    Same as many will be disappointed if we see just expensive rules first, and factions added slowly after with 2 per year, similar to HH.

    And the Horus Heresy will end in about the same timeframe given for the new game to be released.
    So FW has the capacity to support by that time.

    and in the end GW does not care how many people are unhappy as there will be enough to buy the 1 large and expensive plastic box to be worth it
    All true but for the capacity FW has. They hardly manage small unit boxes for small games. In HH it's what? Robot arms and upgrade bits with the regular vehicle. They tried it with Warhammer before and we have seen where that ends. And there is no way FW will stop making space marines.

    The open end will spark dreams, many will be unhappy, time to open the gates and show them dreamland.
  • 40K matched play is a mess. You can't invent balanced tournament rules if you want to sell models at the same time.

    What I've followed 40k scene there was a time when titans ruled the field for example. This was seen as a major problem by all but the issue was addressed by GW only recently. Gotta sell them new titan kits.

    Balance we have in 9th age is anathema to that. Rules and armybooks won't encourage people to buy certain models. That should be appealing to more fluff oriented players too. They can create an army which tells the strory they are after and still win games as all options in the book should have their use.

    I'm more fluff oriented player by the way. I'm not expecting a 1000 page long background information but like to create my own stuff which is somewhat tied to the world. Less I know from the faction the better as this gives me more room to invent stories. With this said I have also enjoyed attending local tournaments during past year. It's nice to develop own gaming skills and meet new people.
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  • can't agree more, LJ.

    i know that people are attached to the past. i understand that. it's a very human thing. but i like to think that the T9A community cares more about the future than the past.

    you want special characters? you want fluff? you want balance? you want custom sculpts? you want videogames? you want it all, in multiple languages, and for free?

    you got it.

    Display Spoiler

    piteglio wrote:

    as the portal was opened, the city of Avras was shaken to the ground. walls cracked and buildings collapsed. thousands of citizens and soldiers witnessed the devastation brought by the Breach of the Veil. the cataclysm also affected the hilly region to the north and east of the city, but this event was only witnessed by few busy outriders and worried scouts. the ground cracked open, and from the belly of the earth emerged eerie pillars, with an otherwordly look. as if the Legion was trying to prove us that they even hold power on the very guts of our world.

    one of these stone formations consisted of a vast circular clearing, surrounded by pillars. a sort of natural arena. on the ninth day after the cataclysm, at dawn, the wind through the pillars became an otherwordly voice. a voice that sent its message across the military camps around the besieged city, across the forests and the hills, and into the skies themselves.






    on that morning, the song of the Arena hummed lightly into the ears of many sleeping warriors. it seemed to resound slightly louder into the ears of wizards. but it only found its perfect strength when it sang into the halls and the courtyards of the barracks of the Fourth District in Avras. there, the song of the Arena woke up a massive giant. a huge beast, one that would be called large even by its own kind. Pitelius was sleeping in the training yard of the barracks. in an instant, he was fully awake. he was already answering the call of the Arena. he performed a few of his everyday gestures (grabbing his weapons, checking that no one had stolen his beloved bracelet...) in a mindless fashion. then he blinked. he started walking north and east. he walked for hours, through unsees places that still felt, somehow, familiar. and when the sun was at its peak, Pitelius stepped under the largest arch of the Arena.






    the place was silent. his bracelet started emitting a buzzing sound. he squinted his eyes, and in the shadow of one of the pillars to the opposite side of the Arena, he saw a small figure. no kind words were exchanged: that very moment, Pitelius knew that the Arena wanted to see their blood. he looked again at the creature, a small ugly thing with broken wings, a meaningless collection of spikey limbs, putrescent tongues (yes, plural), and the strangest skin - something like molten metal, shifting, shiny, and unpredictable. his bracelet stopped buzzing. he looked again at his opponent, and he only saw a floating hooded robe filled with shadow.







    so yeah, @Chack had the patience to give me another chance after the failed demo of last week (were Steam just decided to mess with my cloud files), so tonight we played a first match in the Arena. here you see a match between a Kuulima's Deceiver (miniature by Hitech Miniatures - more on this below) and Pitelius the Undefeated - a gladiator giant brought to you by the relentless pen of good ol' @Mercenary Armies. since we for this Sidequest there was the option of a wizard duel, we chose to use two unusual builds: an Apprentice with Protean Magic and a giant with the Crown of the Wizard King. because FUN.

    slightly more succinctly: i roll Divination for my spells (Know Thine Enemy), Chack chooses Evocation (Spectral Blades). i position myself at the entrance, defiantly, completely ignoring any tactical consideration - i am the Undefeated, after all. he deploys 24" away and decides that i will have first turn. i take the chance to step onto a small hill, allowing a 12" charge. i activate my bracelet (yes, your crown is my bracelet, you deal with that) and get a nice +2 to Offense, Defense and Agility. Off won't be that useful (the Deceiver has Parry from Living Shield), but the other two are nice.






    Chack sees a good chance to make me eat my hat and charges me. he only rolls an 8 and so moves 4" forward. no big harm done - i have higher Advance anyway, and he can't really use to his advantage the field, nor the impassable terrain. so why not risk it.






    he casts Spectral Blades, and i fail to dispel. in the following turn i get in easily (well, i needed a 6, and i rolled a 6). i also manage to cast my spell, and here we go. time for combat.






    in the first round, i deal no wound but i receive one. maybe because we forgot to apply a few special rules for the Deceiver, maybe because i chose poorly my gladiator weapon (i went with a halberd, but should have probably gone for the great weapon, dunno, let me know your thoughts), or maybe because of the everpresent cruelty of the dice gods - this is one of the moments when you tell yourself "luckily i only needed 4+":





    in the second round i deal one wound, and the little daemon deals three back, so we're 4/8 for me vs 3/4 for Chack. between Pitelius' Rage and the Deceiver's special rule, we now open onto a third turn of combat where the Kuulima's dude will have TEN attacks. this is what you get, when you ask for a wizard duel! : D

    at this point, the match feels close to an end. i go with 5 dice on my spell, cos hey, worst case scenario, i suffer some wounds and get some extra attacks! but that's not needed - i do 2 wounds, the Deceiver strikes back and draws some more blood, but then i raise my mighty feet and stomp it to pulp. the end.






    hope you enjoyed the read - we surely enjoyed the battle! and thanks to @AlexCat for the Deceiver's build (it's a lot of fun!) and to @Mercenary Armies for the embarrassing idea of calling a gladiator "Pitelius". if you want to see the unit cards (with rules and art) i made for the two warriors, let me know and we can try to organise a private match next week or later.

    as always, thanks to Little Joe for having sculpted and donated all the terrain pieces you see in the screenshots. ah, on the topic of donations: the Deceiver miniature was kindly made available by our friends at Hitech Miniatures. if you want to see more reports of this kind, consider buying one of his Soulfly models - it's only a few bucks, but if small miniature companies see that collaborating with T9A brings them new sales, they might be willing to send me more models. and this will help me fill the Arena with plenty of beautiful new minis. alright, end of the unpaid endorsement. but hey, if we want T9A to thrive and not be thunderstomped by oher games, we've gotta do something, right?

    cheers,
    f

    more infos about the digital Arena here:
    [Veil of the Ages] Kickstarter



    let's work together on this. the Old World will always have a special place in my memories. but i have new worlds to conquer. new doors to open.

    thanks GW, for helping us know where we stand.


    The post was edited 3 times, last by piteglio ().

  • Little Joe wrote:

    All true but for the capacity FW has. They hardly manage small unit boxes for small games. In HH it's what? Robot arms and upgrade bits with the regular vehicle.
    They have faction upgrades for dedicated HH plastic models and some upgrades 2 regular 40k vehicle
    Everything else are full models, as also the Robots to put the arms on are dedicated to the HH line same as the tanks

    And Middle Earth, Necromunda, Titanicus and Blood Bowl

    since GW increased their in house production capacity, FW is more of a design studio, handling all the Specialist Games, then the former garage type resin only product
  • for anyone wants to use Pitelius.
    Is a gladiator giant very very angry. Who wants to prove himself to be the best.
    He has Of and Def 4. He is a Big Brother. He is a character with no leader and 50pt of magic (only one item). Equipped with Gladiator Weapons (DE book) and heavy Armour. When he fight in a duel he is stubborn. I think the cost is 400+item. Is it too cheap?
  • jirga wrote:


    I'm more fluff oriented player by the way. I'm not expecting a 1000 page long background information but like to create my own stuff which is somewhat tied to the world. Less I know from the faction the better as this gives me more room to invent stories. With this said I have also enjoyed attending local tournaments during past year. It's nice to develop own gaming skills and meet new people.
    I mean, I like to write my own stuff too, but surely you need at least something to work from. A general base, of what your faction is before you can write your own part in it. Like, currently, we have no idea what the vermin are. Where they live, who rules them, what they are called, what language they speak. A few hooks to hang your own stuff on.


    Imagine generic race 16. All we know is they have high toughness and armour. Can you write fluff for that? And will people you tell about your fluff recognize that it is generic race 16?


    Now instead call that race dwarves and confirm that yes, in that world, dwarves live underground in fortresses, they have kings of fortresses and a high king above that, they use heavily armoured infantry in phalanxes and they have sophisticated warmachines. They are mostly male and like their beards. They write in runes which are also magical. Their names are germanic/nordic-inspired.


    Bam. Now you can write your own dwarf hold, name your king, say something about your army structure, name your heroes.

    The WdG LAB does exactly that and a bit more to make it fun to read. It gives us a fairly detailed description of one major warrior culture, the warriors of the wasteland, and then a lot of half-page to two-page snapshots of other warrior cultures around the world (desert nomads, steppe warriors, norse raiders, tropical pirates, the bloodthirsty Virentian natives) that you can use as a hook to build your own fluff.
    I have whirl’d with the earth at the dawningWhen the sky was a vaporous flameI have seen the dark universe yawning,
    Where the black planets roll without aim;
    Where they roll in their horror unheeded, without knowledge or lustre or name.
  • Jim wrote:

    If the ninth Age can live alongside The Old World will come down to resources GW will invest into the rules.

    If GW handles the competetive scene like 40k they could head into a interesting game.

    ...


    Two weeks after each Codex release there is a FAQ cleaning up the obvious mistakes

    Then bi yearly they release a big FAQ handling pionts and rules adjustments for each race (mostly after big tournaments in the US)

    Also bi yearly they release a book called Chapter approved, where they takle on bugs in the game (for example the rule of three (where you can't play a unit except core more the three times))

    Forgeworld gets the same handling. After the first Chapter approved they increased the points of FW units often by the double or triple amount then before.

    If GW sees a competitive community rising they showed that they can adjust.
    On the other side, they have to because they still release facepalming rules left and right.
    and people claim we change our rules too much?!

    Yikes.

    Id like to highlight that GW charges money for a bunch of this stuff during this process.

    Sorry. Im never going back to paying for a book that is obsolete / needing an FAQ within the year.

    Thats just inexcusable.

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