square bases for AoS + solid basis for T9A

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  • @Eldan I believe you underestimate how difficult is to acquire an artist who will agree to provide project with a piece of his art using Project License. The person actually gives away his ready work for free. Unlike most other teams who collaborate to create a Work, members of Art give complete pieces of Work they could sell. And 'work for exposure' is considered a bad-taste joke in artistic circles. I am afraid project can hardly demand anything from supporting artists. That is why art in our books is not fully official... AFAIK there is somewhere even a disclaimer that our pieces of art are only artistic visions not exact representations...
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  • @Ghiznuk what you would like to see I could deliver but then I would need a workplace and a team of writers and artists in the same building payed to work from 8-16. ||


    The BGT - RT - AT - LABDT interaction goes as follows

    BGT creates background
    RT creates design guidelines
    LABDT creates concepts made to fit the both above
    LABDT work goes for evaluation to the Stakeholders
    Once a concept is approved and penciled in the LAB BGT and AT go to work.
    AT asks visual guidelines to make the artwork of the approved concept and assigns it to a willing artists. How much correlation there is depends on future interaction between LAB lead story writer and the artists as well as artists willingness to cooperate in such a way.
    Story writing and art creation happens at the same time and insufficient communication (one of project's achillie's heels) can lead to discrepancies between the text and the art. But it should be mentioned that sometimes these discrepancies are intentional.

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  • You know, this project has a lot of money and doesn't do anything with it apart from paying for the website's hosting.

    At least that's what I understood from talks with @Grimbold Blackhammer about the (lack of a) financial report, fulfillment of our yearly financial objectives and the relevance of me making a call to contribute to the French community (I did such a call last year and it was very successful, but I did not do any call this year).

    Conclusion : I'm sure we can pay for art if doing this we can get a more fully fleshed-out universe, coherent with the vision laid out by the BGT, and pictures that correspond to the writing.

    EDIT : Sorry @Giladis this was not a reply to your message above, as I was writing it before you posted ;)
    It was just a mere general statement.

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  • If we had a lot of money we would not be stuck on this server with periodic down times.


    You really didn't think that idea through. What do you think how many volunteers would we keep if we started paying members of one team.

    Furthermore I am not sure if you are aware of the price of comissions for enough artwork to fill a single LAB.

    ||

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  • OK, sorry, maybe not then :D

    Still, a financial report would be good, and then the French community would contribute as much as last year, when we filled out 20% of the yearly objective in two days after my call.
    (hint hint)

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  • Not in my hands but I'll poke in the right places to see if such a report can be produced in the near future.

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  • JimMorr wrote:

    @Eldan I believe you underestimate how difficult is to acquire an artist who will agree to provide project with a piece of his art using Project License. The person actually gives away his ready work for free. Unlike most other teams who collaborate to create a Work, members of Art give complete pieces of Work they could sell. And 'work for exposure' is considered a bad-taste joke in artistic circles. I am afraid project can hardly demand anything from supporting artists. That is why art in our books is not fully official... AFAIK there is somewhere even a disclaimer that our pieces of art are only artistic visions not exact representations...
    And that's absolutely fine. I'm not saying we need artwork of every weird littel thing from the project. I'm saying the opposite: we can't limit our background to scenes we can get artwork of. If we don't get artwork of native American chaos warriors fighting dark elves, that's fine. But we should still be able to write stories about that.
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  • @Grahf Equitan Tapestry is the 9 Ages Poem in the Rulebook.

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  • Actually I believe what I said was we have enough money to cover operating expenses for about "X" number of months. But our operating costs are low so that should NOT be taken in any way to mean we have "lots" of money. We don't have a budget to set up booths at the big conventions (people have set them up themselves using their personal funds which is amazing), the few contests we've run, prizes and been donated and the shipping covered but individual users (which is again pretty amazing), and so on. Back in my WHFB days, I would buy three or four army books per year and not really think about it. If even a tiny percent of our player base donated one army book of $$$ to us per year, we'd be able to do those things :|

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  • Casp wrote:

    @Giladis

    To solve this in my opinion, i always think we should we do reverse engine.
    BGT, give big picture
    ART team free to create
    Then BGT start the real work based on art team work.

    Would be a really easier process i think. To get something coherent

    Giladis wrote:

    Maybe, not sure if that order is possible considering both need to wait on design teams to decide what will be in the book. Work happens side by side otherwise it would further prolong the production cycles.

    Point here is we don't (and at now we can't) have dedicated artists enough to follow a faction as actually the BGT does.

    We would need one artist (at least) for FAB that start (in advance) with the conresponding bgt member to flesh out the "aesthetics" of a faction with enough "studies" (such as study on the armous, study on the weapons, study on the civilian dresses, etc.) to strenghten the faction identity.

    To do that, we need very dedicated volounteers, and they are not that easy to find. More than this, such a process would require an infinite amount of hours for the artist.

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  • Based on GW experience such a process lasts about 6 months, involves multiple stages and meetings in full working hours environment. So if we would translate that into T9A terms the conceptual stage of artwork development would take about 2 years.

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  • Grimbold Blackhammer wrote:

    Actually I believe what I said was we have enough money to cover operating expenses for about "X" number of months. But our operating costs are low so that should NOT be taken in any way to mean we have "lots" of money. We don't have a budget to set up booths at the big conventions (people have set them up themselves using their personal funds which is amazing), the few contests we've run, prizes and been donated and the shipping covered but individual users (which is again pretty amazing), and so on. Back in my WHFB days, I would buy three or four army books per year and not really think about it. If even a tiny percent of our player base donated one army book of $$$ to us per year, we'd be able to do those things :|
    So, as I was saying, for Christmas 2018 people gave a lot and without asking any question after I made a call to the community, but then they started asking questions, as far as January-February 2019 the French members who contributed asked for a financial report and, since a year later, that report never came, for Christmas 2019 no call was made.

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  • We have restarted the cogs to get something shown as soon as possible. More on this in March.

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  • Giladis wrote:

    Based on GW experience such a process lasts about 6 months, involves multiple stages and meetings in full working hours environment. So if we would translate that into T9A terms the conceptual stage of artwork development would take about 2 years.

    I'm just brainstorming, maybe a little to hard, so have some fun...

    What about this approach to create a spiralling up of interest and manpower? Is someone interested other than me?


    Some of us could create threads open to anyone where they explain parts of the creative process in order to get:
    • interest -> which could lead to participation
    • feedback -> which can improve the explained creative process
    • manpower -> maybe some folk get excited and, with a bit of luck, in the long term we will replace our human resources


    For example, on the top of my head, we could start following this path:

    Imagine this thread tree:
    • full layout thread>
      • image-editing and visual landmarks sub-thread



    In the "image-editing and visual landmarks sub-thread":

    "Here we give our take on the visual landmarks theme, in this case two pieces donated by one artist are used to evoke the icons of the "Units Belonging to more than 
one Army Category" in order to immediately catch the attention of the reader ... all is done with a free program that works with blend modes, masks ... and an produces TIFFs that fits with the professional level asked by T9A project."








    Display Spoiler

    Obtained from these two images from the same artist.














    Or another quick example for those who don't want to reveal all the art and the background before the right time.

    1. We present an artwork on the ninth scroll.
    2. The artist write on this forum about the guidelines/art briefs for that piece
    3. The artist talks about some technical aspects, just bits like the example above to create interest without losing too much time:
      "notice how I placed different parts of the image on different layers (digital art) in order to accelerate the workflow.
      In this case the arm of the soldier is on a different layer, so I can easily resize/move the arm and change its colour/whatever with alpha inheritance/clipping masks"
  • Grimbold Blackhammer wrote:

    Actually I believe what I said was we have enough money to cover operating expenses for about "X" number of months. But our operating costs are low so that should NOT be taken in any way to mean we have "lots" of money. We don't have a budget to set up booths at the big conventions (people have set them up themselves using their personal funds which is amazing), the few contests we've run, prizes and been donated and the shipping covered but individual users (which is again pretty amazing), and so on. Back in my WHFB days, I would buy three or four army books per year and not really think about it. If even a tiny percent of our player base donated one army book of $$$ to us per year, we'd be able to do those things :|
    Grim, donations and purchasing physical products are two completely different things psychologically.

    With donations you are asking for an act of faith and trust that this will actually do something. (This requires significant levels of trust in the organization, people and outcomes, not just the process) Alot of people in the community lack that level of trust due to not knowing what's going on. Think of kickstarter, the really successful ones tend to be those that are super open and communicative, not those that withhold info.

    Purchasing is instant gratification, you have the outcome to enjoy right away and usually you can see the complete quality first yourself before purchasing. The power lies with you, which feels good and encourages further purchases. If T9A sold army books (even as a subscription model) most of the community would have bought into it without a second thought.

    Comparing the two behaviors is apples vs oranges. Unfortunately the USP of T9A is also what is causing it to be delayed as much as it is, ( we are looking to deliver a huge scope, at high quality, but without budget) and this affects the psychology of the people who would invest in it.

    TLDR - we dont communicate enough to be trusted enough to have access to people's money without showing the goods that they want.
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