square bases for AoS + solid basis for T9A

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  • JimMorr wrote:

    I doubt we will see miniatures in 'official materials' - that would break the policy of project being 'miniature-agnostic'.
    I would prefer to see "artwork" of each unit. That gives the player a good idea of what they "should" look like. Maybe a section in each book explaining the 'miniature-agnostic' approach with directions to the website gallery for ideas.
    Never argue with Idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
  • Thanks for the explanation @JimMorr im aware of your army showcase and i think its amazing and one of my favourite initiatives, im just a sucker for seeing pics of other folks' armies displayed in all their glory!

    Its a shame for me that the project doesnt want to publish pictures of models for fear of "playing favourites" or whatever but it is what it is. I still love the game and im grateful for all the good decisions they make that far outweigh the few dubious ones
    Take a look at my painted army so far. Feel free to share a pic of yours!

    Pics of my ever expanding warriors army

    WastelandWarrior Painting League 2019

    WastelandWarrior Painting League 2020
  • JimMorr wrote:

    I believe you mistake miniatures for products. IMO miniatures are not products, they are only co-sales to the main product which is a game. Without Warhammer, GoT, Hail Ceasar, AD&D and 100 others there would be no miniature market.
    You'd have to bend the definition of product quite a bit to say that miniatures are not products... but I get your point. Thing is though, the lion share of profit comes from selling miniatures, not rulebooks. So even though people purchase models to play the game, the miniatures are what drives the profit. GW is the best example of this where the old WHFB was subject to OP new models. In other words, rules were made to sell the model and they weren't always the best. You'll also find many old GW rulesets that just weren't the best and could've easily been better but their focus was not on creating an excellent game - the game exists to sell models - the opposite of T9A. Even in AoS, the base rules are free. Because GW realised that a pricey rulebook - required to play - is too steep of an entry into the game and that it's more profitable for them to get people into the hobby as easily as possible because one customer's total army expenses will give them a lot more money than if that person hadn't been playing and 10 others would've purchased a rule book.

    Then, take into account the amount of people who purchase models as collectibles. Gundam is a prime example. Now, this applies less to wargaming ranges but there are still people who don't buy models for the game, just as collectibles.

    So my point is that at the end of the day, the game is not the primary product, the models are. Whether we use the models to play or just to collect makes no real difference to the model manufacturers.


    while small companies can design stunning miniatures they cannot hope to design and promote a game. Even Games Workshop cannot promote a game through online channels: they need all their shops to create the need for their products not to sell them directly. I personally purchase in GW Online Store and only pick-up in their shop.
    Entirely wrong. It's easier than ever to promote and sell games thanks to the Internet. Video games are the best examples as video game stores are shutting down all over and will soon be a thing of the past. The only reason this hasn't been felt as much in the tabletop market is due to the games being physical products as a feature. But even those industries will change. Take books as an example. There'd be a time where people would argue that you can't write and release books on the internet and make money off it. You need to get libraries and book stores to promote the book!

    If you want proof of small organisations designing and promoting their own games exclusively - and successfully - through the internet, look no further than the website you're on.

    To clarify - I'm not saying that hobby stores are useless or that having a presence there doesn't matter. What I am saying though is that the Internet and 3D printing is already changing manufacturing as a whole (an entire business sector that's been more or less the same since the industrial revolution) and miniatures are at the forefront of that change. The best way to succeed is to embrace this change and be pioneers in the coming era of private manufacturing.

    jirga wrote:

    I bought a printer few years ago. Once it ran out of its starter inkset it has gathered dust. It would cost 60€ to get full inkset for it. I've been spending my money on miniatures instead. :)

    3D printing surely is changing the industry but I don't see myself printing my own armies in the future. Some models yes but not in mass quantities. 10 years from now I probably have 3D printer gathering dust somewhere. :D
    The difference between the two are quite significant though. You don't want to spend 60€ on ink because what the ink will produce isn't that valuable to you and the situations in which you'd need to transfer your information to paper are running fewer and fewer. Also, take into account that ink is one of the most expensive substances in the world... I don't feel much need to spend 60€ on ink either. And yes, I am out and have been for like 3 months.

    3D printing is different. Not only can you print things that you value, you can do it for cheaper than what you currently pay. With a normal FDM printer you pay roughly 20€ for a kilo of plastic. Now, FDM printing isn't well suited for small minis but you can print enough terrain that would set you back well over 100€ if you were to buy from store. Depending on what you plan on printing with a resin printer and comparing to GW or FW prices, I'd imagine similar numbers in terms of what you save.

    So what if money's not an issue? Well, let's take into account that digital 3D models never run out of stock. They can never be broken during transport or lost by the Spanish post. 3D models never go out of production and are never limited to whatever ranges your local store chooses to carry. You also have the ability to edit the models to your own liking before printing. Change heads, weapons, limb thickness, height, pose... Your imagination really is the limit.

    So why would a machine that produces valuable goods that you're willing to pay money for - cheaper than you'll otherwise get them and with a tonne of features that can never be available at a hobby store - be gathering dust?
    My wife and I just released our first video game title!
  • Sir_Sully wrote:

    JimMorr wrote:

    I doubt we will see miniatures in 'official materials' - that would break the policy of project being 'miniature-agnostic'.
    I would prefer to see "artwork" of each unit. That gives the player a good idea of what they "should" look like. Maybe a section in each book explaining the 'miniature-agnostic' approach with directions to the website gallery for ideas.
    Seconded. I’ve been looking forward to the release of full army books partially for that reason.
  • Hombre de Mundo wrote:



    If you want proof of small organisations designing and promoting their own games exclusively - and successfully - through the internet, look no further than the website you're on.
    Well I believe our game was promoted thanks to existing ETC community, not thanks to this website. And despite having such boost in the beginning it failed to reach most players not connected to tournament scene... roughly 90% of old community.
    StormRider Games
    StormRider Facebook
    _____________Current goals:
    • Launch crowdfunding campaign to publish The IXth Age Legendary rulebook in Hardcover
    • Convert and paint army of Ogres for my son
  • JimMorr wrote:

    If I'll be able to print the book I will make profit on this operation. Profit will be used to cover running cost of stormrider. To promote game in cooperation with other parties like @piteglio. Also to print more books than needed for Kickstarter. Why? To deliver them to shops and be able offer delayed payment for shops. That way we have a chance of plugging into the great promotion channel which are shops. This is the real goal of stormrider. Is it to make money for living? No, I have other sources of incomes. Is it non-profit? No, but the profit will be invested to promote the game and to keep the business legal.
    Perhaps I will not meet the opinion of the great majority here. But I think it would be great if people would make profit while providing great stuff for our game. The rationale behind is that of an eco system, if someone makes some profit he can act more freely like JimMorr described and - more important - have a higher motivation to extend their business. Extending the business of selling T9A stuff means more reach of the game, therefore a greater community and more people to play with.
    And there is always a limitation to prevent too much greed - if the margin gets too good someone else will step in and do the same for a bit lower margin. This will ensure that things do not extend on a fair price ...

    piteglio wrote:

    keep in mind that the T9A license states that publishers are allowed to print T9A material without modifying it.
    Which by the letter of license mean you cannot print it. Normally you must change minor things to adjust for printing, and if it is just the removal of a transparent layer (which nobody sees). But it is a modification. But to do our ExB justice the are very cooperative and help you to get past that. In the end this grants them some form of veto, which is fine.
    If you do not like 9th Age - fine, it is your right to do so. But do not spoil our fun - go and find your game, be it AoS, 5th Edition, Magic or Dublo
  • Sir_Sully wrote:

    JimMorr wrote:

    I doubt we will see miniatures in 'official materials' - that would break the policy of project being 'miniature-agnostic'.
    I would prefer to see "artwork" of each unit. That gives the player a good idea of what they "should" look like. Maybe a section in each book explaining the 'miniature-agnostic' approach with directions to the website gallery for ideas.

    piteglio wrote:

    Grahf wrote:

    Please, expand. [...]
    Am I wrong? Did i miss something?
    i think the case is for miniature pictures in the armybook section,
    rather than the artwork in the background section you talk about.
    see above, he is talking about art
  • Grahf wrote:

    @Sir_Sully


    Please, expand

    I remember just a few instances of missing artworks. Nearly all LABs' units have their artwork, except some mounts (Wasteland Behemot, the two DL's Thrones, Burning wheel, Dark Pulpit).

    If that is the case, we'll try to improve the situation in the future.

    Am I wrong? Did i miss something?
    On many of them, the artwork does not match the text at all, in how they are described. Even on some of the demons where it's mentioned that all demons serving some same god share a certain feature.
    A summary of all proposed ideas from the VS LAB brainstorm thread

    Collection of all offcially posted Vermin background

    'All the gifts your parents gave you, all the love and patience of your friends, you drowned in a neurotoxin. You let misery win. And it will keep on winning till you die — or overcome it.'
  • Eldan wrote:

    Grahf wrote:

    @Sir_Sully


    Please, expand

    I remember just a few instances of missing artworks. Nearly all LABs' units have their artwork, except some mounts (Wasteland Behemot, the two DL's Thrones, Burning wheel, Dark Pulpit).

    If that is the case, we'll try to improve the situation in the future.

    Am I wrong? Did i miss something?
    On many of them, the artwork does not match the text at all, in how they are described. Even on some of the demons where it's mentioned that all demons serving some same god share a certain feature.
    That type of problem is tricky, I don't think we have enough manpower/resources to have proper art briefs like companies do.

    We depend a lot from people's donations and they can differ a lot from our necessities, that's it.
  • john doc wrote:

    Doesn't this look cooler and player friendly as a layout?




    Artwork could be included, and of course with copyrights to the OP.

    Grahf wrote:

    Sir_Sully wrote:

    I would prefer to see "artwork" of each unit. That gives the player a good idea of what they "should" look like. Maybe a section in each book explaining the 'miniature-agnostic' approach with directions to the website gallery for ideas.
    see above, he is talking about art


    that was only a reaction to the original proposal above (which is about miniatures).