2.2 Warriors of the Dark Gods - Coming to you till Winter 2020

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  • 2.2 Warriors of the Dark Gods - Coming to you till Winter 2020

    Hail Warriors !

    New patch landed now and we got our book for the next year!
    This should be set till the end of 2020.

    All in all I am pretty satisfied with it and I believe our words have been heard.
    Sure some things could have been better but 3 out of 5 of the points I mentionned in the "community feedback to the RT" went in the desired direction.

    I hope you guys will enjoy it, and count on you to get a good feedback next year !

    To be honest and transparent, here is the final feedback I made:

    1. The community would like to have some explanations about the raise of the forsworns.
      Those for sure were played more then others special units but did you also keep in mind that it is one of the only (the only?) unit in our book with a goal dedicated to block the enemy in melee, grinding slowly for sure but with an offensive profile far from our other options...
      No other unit in our book offers that option, we have tanky alternatives but with a much stronger offensive potential that comes with a high cost.

      Community understands the raise to spike shield, but is afraid that the unit might be nerfed because of the doombus and that this should rather come trough the raise of the DL (25 more points on spiked shield seems to already do that).
      The 20 points raise on the starting unit seems a lot to us, especially if you consider this is 70 points for a 2A model...

      I believe this one was heard, 10point discount seems fair. Forsworns will probably be less popular then before but should still see some play at that price, maybe less Doombus tough...


    2. The second one is a Hellmaw concern:
      An important part of the Community feels like most people's complaints about WDG are due to the Hellmaw and the book power level is raised by it significantly, to the point other units are taxed due to possibility of combining with it.

      I made a quick check of the results from the ETC and gathered some datas for the WDG list that did not take the Hellmaw, those do not reflect the tier of the army. If I remember correctly we were T2 because the average result per match was around 11; without the maw the average was below 9 (8.9 actually); that would have been a tiers 4 army I believe.

      Many users still do not consider the Hellmaw to be something they chose the army for, and it now seems to be the unit that comes to anybody's mind when talking about WDG. How often do I hear "uh? you're not playing the hellmaw?" or "Of course you bring the hellmaw?" from my opponents... Imho it feels weird to have people seeing this as the only identity of our army or to summarize it in those words: "Slow hard hitting army but they have a tool to teleport behind enemy's lines".
      Iconic units should remain old ones like Feldraks, Chosen, Chosen Knights and Chariots.

      I believe this was followed too. Hellmaw went up, that is something I proposed and believe was right. On the other side, units with no synergies with the hellmaw went down and should now see more play.

    3. The general feeling is that price raise are huge while price drop are minimalists.
      Players point one particular mechanism that is seen as problematic: when one build comes out a lot, every single part of that combo sees price raises: the Doombus for example was quite popular and made use of an exclusive army rule (spike shield), it brought some tanky unit that grinded well with the character in it. With the recent price upgrade that unit is now close to 100 points more expensive, and probably close to extinction.
      Same goes for the envy lord with burning potent, with the fact that every single part of it is now more expensive, it is now 60 points more expensive and weaker since it cannot get protection against fire or magic anymore.
      Price raise were expected for both of those, but not at that level, forbidding the defensive build from the envy lord is also killing it.

      This is something I'm disappointed about, the multiple raise from our characters did not change at all and some builds might now be dead.

    4. Wretched Ones are a phantom unit, nobody plays them, one guy tried and got awfull results at the ETC. In order to become a real alternative those need to drop more then what is scheduled. Units of 6 should be below the 500 points, those are non scoring... (Comparing them to hoarders is easy: -1W, -1T, -scoring, -fear, Fortitude vs Aegis, +random movement... it just cannot explain the price being so close...). With the current rule set, something around 80 points per model seem to be a better option. (Their price is lowering slowly since the start, I do believe we can dare a bigger price drop on those, that is if we want to see them as a true unit and not as damnation leftovers).

      Was one of my main concern, and I'm glad about the change. Irredeemable bring some unique mechanic to the game, and reflect the perversion from our troops pretty well. This is what happen when you do not satisfy the gods ^^.
      I'll even be glad if that playstyle becomes popular and offers a new way to play our army.


    5. Mounts are also in a bad position, even with the successive price drops they are still too shy in competitive lists.
      We were often told that a huge part of our complexity budget was linked to our Mounts section, Some are rarely seen but played (horses and now karkadans for Chosen Lords) but most of them are not played at all (Dragon, Behemoth, Chimeras, Disks,...).
      Serious price drops are required, especially because putting a character on those mounts means that it will be exposed to ranged threads, and that he will be much more vulnerable then hidden in a unit. Sure it will get some more HP (and maybe Resilience) but it will be easier to hit in melee and have a worse armour + no special save.
      To summarize it: big mounts are nice models, but creepy entries on lists.

      Probably my biggest disillusion, and I'm probably guilty about it.
      That point was too "global" it might have had better chances to be heard if it targeted 1 or 2 mounts rather then "all mounts".
      Still we only saw changes on the standard and large mount optiuon and Gigantic ones were the ones in need (Dragon, Behemot, Shrine).

    DL / WDG Community Support

    Playtester

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Rothulf ().

  • I wouldn't be too worried about pt number 3. Declaring the doombus dead was premature and overdramatic. Was at a 38-player tournament a couple of weeks ago with 6 WDG-players participating, and I was the only WDG who didn't bring a doombus. There were plenty of portents as well, I think half of the WDG-players fielded portent.

    However, pt number 5 is probably valid. Our chosen lord mounts aren't in the best of shapes. Or rather: horse & karkadan are fine, I think, but I'd say that skywheel, chimera and dragon are still too expensive. Probably chariot as well - I just fielded two lords on chariots at a tournament, and while they certainly hit hard, they're slow and exposed to shooting and magic.
  • LetargicHunter wrote:

    umbranar wrote:

    FIRST!

    Anyhow, I don't think a 950 CL on dragon would be "amazing". Then again, I never tried it.
    Currently working on my WO/FO/Lord of the Damned list.
    CL + Greed + Lance + Trophy Rack + Aether + Obsidian + Dragon is 750.
    No 950
    950 because he is general. Bonus of 200 points for dead general. If this absurd restriction lifted - dragon would have became more popular.
    DH - main
    WODG - secondary
    OK - reborn be my childhood army
    DL - side project
  • I still wonder, how 390 was too much discount for forsaken one, while now his price gone down to 380. May be statistics say otherwise, but for me FO is much more potent and usefull entry than FDE, so it is quite hard to understand decision process behind their pricing.

    Don't get me wrong - I am glad that entry present in 100% of my lists since 0.403 getting cheaper and cheaper, just can't comprehend - why.
    DH - main
    WODG - secondary
    OK - reborn be my childhood army
    DL - side project

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Happy Aspid ().

  • Dear @Rothulf,

    Thank you for that transparency.

    In point 2, when you say "Hellmaw went up, that is something I proposed and believe was right. On the other side, units with no synergies with the hellmaw went down and should now see more play.", this is what I understand: units that have synergies with Hellmaw still pay the price of that synergy, AND Hellmaw got more expensive just because it feels too strong for WDG... Am I missing something? Now we pay 10% of our army point to have a play-style in our favor that otherwise would make WDG weaker in CC army (compared to those that are specialized in CC like OK).

    In the process of points drop, for this one, I appreciate the effort made (that could have been a little more tbh), and I also think the book is nice (thank you!)... But as all other armies got that too, I wonder about the balancing... I can already see in the UD forum that they are quite happy and at the same time wondering if they did not become too powerful... A feeling that I never had in the WDG forum :)

    Of course, this is my personal opinion,

    Cheers,
  • We got out of this update cycle ok. Vc kinda got shafted. Amazingly VS got buffed..... everyone else got a bit of free candy. ud got nerfed a bit but still strong imo. Its gonna be an interesting year..... or a year of facing rats every other game ;)
    Take a look at my painted army so far. Feel free to share a pic of yours!

    Pics of my ever expanding warriors army

    WastelandWarrior Painting League 2019

    WastelandWarrior Painting League 2020
  • zulu wrote:

    @WastelandWarrior you say your list got 200 pts cheaper??? Can you elaborate on that a bit lol
    not quite 200 but not far off

    2x6 wretcheds saves 120pts
    Lord of damned saves 10pts
    Chosen knights saves 10pts
    2xfde saves 10pts

    So only 150pts, still, im not complaining!
    Take a look at my painted army so far. Feel free to share a pic of yours!

    Pics of my ever expanding warriors army

    WastelandWarrior Painting League 2019

    WastelandWarrior Painting League 2020
  • WastelandWarrior wrote:

    We got out of this update cycle ok. Vc kinda got shafted. Amazingly VS got buffed..... everyone else got a bit of free candy. ud got nerfed a bit but still strong imo. Its gonna be an interesting year..... or a year of facing rats every other game ;)
    VS buffs were entirely around things that were fielded in minimal numbers or not at all.

    - Rat at Arms
    - Vermin Guard
    - Weapon Teams
    - Abominations (used somewhat, but not in the meta)

    The thing you may see from VS in this patch is more infantry, and fewer "toys" - which I think WDG players would appreciate.


    Find me on Twitter! - twitter.com/SkavenInAZ
  • Happy Aspid wrote:

    Don't get me wrong - I am glad that entry present in 100% of my lists since 0.403 getting cheaper and cheaper, just can't comprehend - why.
    What you play is not considered good list and what top tournament players play ;)

    Shukran wrote:

    A decision is a decision. In every way u see it.
    Even after last months price changes WDG was believed to still be top3 army. This is why other armies got more price cuts then WDG. I personally still think WDG is above average army right now.