Cultists Beta January 2020 feedback

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    • I'm glad this is going to gold!


      I gave my feedback at the time of the last patch, and it remains the same:

      Squee wrote:

      I think the real victim in the patch is the Altar.
      The second biggest issue is the inquisitor rule design.

      The Altar needs a purpose to exist; that purpose IMO should be spells that force opponents to commit.

      The inquisitor rule doesn't really need to exist; but if it does have to be there for fluff reasons, giving vanguard was a better design (again, encouraging engagement)

      If there is any opportunity for design changes that are bigger:

      Demon Summoning is the main feature of this book; but with its limitations it can be played around (I'm not saying this means its not powerful FWIW), and at that point the army starts feeling like inferior DL. I haven't picked up the cultists for a while, and this is partly because they got a little dull - if I can't pull off a good play with the summon, the experience is somewhat average.
      If its possible, increase the summon range to 18" - and reflect that increased power in the costs where appropriate; especially since they are not locked in the gold.
    • Sidereo wrote:

      Well... seems like my feedback is being disregarded because it appeared to be no actual player feedback? Yikes, what do you think my propositions are based on? Reading the book and inventing stuff? It is, in fact, coming from playing games with the Cultist army.

      But I personally will stop making suggestions, given that there is no way of communicating what kind of feeback you want. We basically gave everything in this thread from crazy new ideas to saying which units are good, which are bad, which rules make no sense, which rules are awesome, where to reduce complexity because it doesn't add a lot, where to buff, where to restrict.

      It just seems that the developers of this army book do not care.

      A shame. Thematically, the Cultists could have been able to easily become my favourite army. Given they are about to hit Gold, they will remain lackluster forever.

      This is feedback about working, I think. If I understand correctly those in favor of this post think we (as 9th age) could do Cultists even better. And are frustrated that designers (of cultist book) are not invested enough. Maybe you would even like to know why we leave the work half done?

      So for things I can agree and relate to.
      Cultists book could always be better.
      We (me and everyone else too) should give this our best.

      Did I get it right?
    • Krokz wrote:

      I mean, how do you think this makes me feel when I am actually asking and reading this? It makes me feel unwanted here when all I wanted was feedback so our design meetings could be based on feedback and not subjective theory.
      For clarity here: We're saying that we really like this army and see lots of potential with it, but that we don't feel it's at the Gold stage yet.

      You are wanted.

      We just don't want you to rush this one.
    • I do feel that I might to step up and apologise, I may very well have been too harsh. I admit that I became a bit too emotional, but seeing people like my post, I think more people feel like me, there could be more in this army.

      I will refrain from being too crazy and just say that I agree with Squee. The Altar needs a final bit of love. Some more spells or maybe a defensive option, like giving a hard target aura or something like that. Something to make players pick the altar over another wizard or more Daemons.

      Or, I know, crazy idea, but I have so many ideas in regards to a Cult, damn, something like the following rule:

      My life for the Veil


      At the beginning of a friendly player magic phase, this model may choose to inflict a hit/D3 hits against itself or another unit within 6" with Sacrifical Offerings. These hits wound automatically with no save of any kind allowed. The model then gains Channel (1) for each health point loss caused by this rule until the end of the magic phase.

      Just to say the Altar is so awesome (I love my model for it as well) and I would love for it to be awesome again. Or maybe something to make it viable to take two Altars?
      cuncta fluunt
    • I have lost count how many of my ideas end up getting more and more Veil tokens :). We have lot of them so I though we could try something different. What else could that sacrifice bring?

      EDIT: After thinking that could help to have magic phases even on turns 1 and 2

      How about something simple, that I hope will not add (once more) much complexity:

      When summoning unit from altar one veil counts as 250pts.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by nightwun ().

    • Played a tournament recently.

      Cultists themselves seem in a good spot.

      Possessed are too good for the points. They need to be more expensive. Also increasing the amount of units to say 4 would be nice as well.

      For 450ish points for full command, either gw's or spears chitinous and kinslayers they were ace.

      Also the Daemon Symbiotes seem strong with the magic items. I had:

      Adept, Evocation, Hammer Hand, Paired Weapons, Touch of Greatness Essence of Mithril

      and

      Adept, Divination, Hammer Hand, Spear, Titanic Might, Shield, Willows ward, Ghostly guard

      Both about 420 points and both scary as hell with 6 strength 6 off 7 and a 2+5++ and then 5 strength 8 ap 3/4 and a 1+5++. And they cast magic.

      Otherwise, it would be nice to get a faster unit or some chaff like dogs or fast cav. Also putting the cultist giant in the book and making the idol better.
      Dawi down under
    • nightwun wrote:

      When summoning unit from altar one veil counts as 250pts.
      I feel like that could make the Altar interesting for some specific units. :)

      Could it be an option to allow the Altar as a Mount for the Cult leader, giving the Spell distance increase to the rider as well? Maybe that is too much haggle. I like the veil token value increase for the Altar.
      cuncta fluunt
    • I don't think possessed are too expansive, they're good, but off 2 def 2 is a big weakness, and a good player can use it to his advantage.
      However, the inquisitor rule is better than before, but it become really anecdotal, the vast majority of player will don't play it, cause they will not want to loose 200 points more.
      Idol is for me not very usefull, she need a more specific role.
      Unlike other comment, I appreciate the new altar.
      Discipline test is really the big problem of the L.A for now, and we have only two way to make them more reliable: the crown, and the divination school. One other way may be appreciable.

      it should be interesting to add some mount ?
    • Possessed are amazing. They really should be like 500+ points.

      Ward. Good armour. Lots of attacks. High strength.

      They went through all sorts of things. Dark Coaches, Big blocks, Characters.

      If they lose combat, that 25 strong unit loses just a couple of models on the steadfast test.

      I mean I love the unit, but an extra 2ppm would be justified, along with a 0-4 unit limit.
      Dawi down under
    • Is a limit really needed? I mean, do you have enough points left for 4+ units of possessed once you've filled core, characters and summoned demons?

      As for a point rise -> are possessed carrying the army? Does having several units guarantee a win? The fact that core are so useless needs to be compensated somewhere. And that somewhere could be possessed...
    • If allowed, I would play with 4X15 cultists with spear of infinity champ and 4x25 possessed with red haze and spears. Maybe 2 titanslayer chariots, blazing glories or some brazen beasts, but that's it.

      With the option for 4x25 possessed I feel like you can nearly completely skip the summoned daemons, especially with divination's know the enemy/starts align and evocation's ancestral aid.
      Have you checked out my Youtube channel yet? Link: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8s5AkuzccDY_M0zBVIDd7w
    • From design point of view you have to differentiate from designs that only create novelty items and design that is meaningful and actually impacts how the army plays, old quote:

      Krokz wrote:

      You have to ask yourself why would you change something. Would it actually improved how the army plays (not if it wins) without bringing more complexity?
      For example we wanted to give Altar something like Rally around the Flag option or Divination Attribute, that would change how the army plays, how its flow is on the battlefield from deployment phase onwards. It gives the army flavor without changing the complexity of the army book by a meaningful margin.
      Same with proposed increase for summoned units with Altar present. It changes the flow of the whole battlefield and is not just some novelty ability which brings more complexity than battlefield impact.
    • From BG perspective we limited possession as it a bit of rarity rather than norm. From that point of view keeping amount of models is our key, how they deivide to units is not so crucial.

      After comparing these to any other similar units this is too cheap. Should we add cost to options or base unit? Also as it is said army is quite ok in games I think we could lower some other costs, which is not daemon units. Not sure where yet as most other stuff seems to be ok priced...
    • nightwun wrote:

      From BG perspective we limited possession as it a bit of rarity rather than norm. From that point of view keeping amount of models is our key, how they deivide to units is not so crucial.

      After comparing these to any other similar units this is too cheap. Should we add cost to options or base unit? Also as it is said army is quite ok in games I think we could lower some other costs, which is not daemon units. Not sure where yet as most other stuff seems to be ok priced...
      Background question: are the possessions must be volunatary, or daemon can possess unwilling host too?
      DH - main
      WODG - secondary
      OK - reborn be my childhood army
      DL - side project
    • Happy Aspid wrote:

      nightwun wrote:

      From BG perspective we limited possession as it a bit of rarity rather than norm. From that point of view keeping amount of models is our key, how they deivide to units is not so crucial.

      After comparing these to any other similar units this is too cheap. Should we add cost to options or base unit? Also as it is said army is quite ok in games I think we could lower some other costs, which is not daemon units. Not sure where yet as most other stuff seems to be ok priced...
      Background question: are the possessions must be volunatary, or daemon can possess unwilling host too?
      Please no official answer. Let the players make their own fluff for how their own guys got possessed.
    • Chronocide wrote:

      Happy Aspid wrote:

      nightwun wrote:

      From BG perspective we limited possession as it a bit of rarity rather than norm. From that point of view keeping amount of models is our key, how they deivide to units is not so crucial.

      After comparing these to any other similar units this is too cheap. Should we add cost to options or base unit? Also as it is said army is quite ok in games I think we could lower some other costs, which is not daemon units. Not sure where yet as most other stuff seems to be ok priced...
      Background question: are the possessions must be volunatary, or daemon can possess unwilling host too?
      Please no official answer. Let the players make their own fluff for how their own guys got possessed.
      In my fluff, cultists hope that they are be choosen by the Dark God, and become some possessed (and loose their soul in the trade). I like the idea that i can create my own history.

      If you want to add cost to possessed, i think you need to up base unit, it's the aegide 5+ ans the 2 attacks that are very strong. And I think that the 10 first models must be more expansive than the extra models. I read lot of cultists list and they often play 2 small units of 15 models with paired weapons and red Haze.

      If you want lower some non daemon units:
      - cult leader: his base price is perhaps a little bit expansive, 170 points?
      - daemon host: his price seem good
      - cultists: good price too, difficult to be cheaper than that
      - ritual altar seams good too
      - Profane idol base price is a bit to hight, giant are around 290 points, idol have a aegide 5+ and supernal, but loose rage, perhaps 320 points?

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Tyran ().

    • I am thinking about something, is it possible to adjust the price of certain daemonic units?The price is thought for the daemon L.A and is not justified for cultist use, and conversely some units are better fo cultist than daemons.For example:
      - Lemure are a good bunker for daemonics characters, but can't be use for that by cultist cause they can't take daemonic characters. they deserve a small reduction to their cost
      - Mageblight gremlins loose the veil stalker interest. they deserve a big reduction to their cost
      - Hope harversters can be "hide" and summon directly in range for their aether battery. They deserve an increase in their cost

      What do you think about that?