Games Workshop and "Warhammer The Old World"

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  • Giladis wrote:

    Not to mention blackpowder weapons aren't a thing during the entire period.
    As I've pointed this out already, GW already wrote stories about wars in that period where there were rocket launchers and cannons.

    I'm not expecting to respect their own fluff in that regard.

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  • adicto wrote:

    I never understood this obsession with conquering the wargaming world. Why can't T9A just chill and be there for whoever is tired of dirty casual stuff? You know, all this aggressively seeking converts from other groups could be part of what drives players off.

    Don't become that creepy preacher that yells at everyone the benefits of believing in our lord and savior Jesus.


    For the wight is bright and full of wonders

    The post was edited 2 times, last by Grahf ().

  • JimMorr wrote:

    Giladis wrote:

    Not to mention blackpowder weapons aren't a thing during the entire period.
    ??? Wasn't Vlad killed at least once with a cannonball taking off his head?
    He was, but Ao3E is a very long period of time 1547-2304. The Vampire Wars were during the 6th century of the entire thing.

    I need to recheck my WHFB timeline compilation but if I recall correctly gunpowder was introduced to the Empire by the Dwarfs around the time of Gorbad's invasion or a little bit after that.

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  • Ghiznuk wrote:

    Giladis wrote:

    Not to mention blackpowder weapons aren't a thing during the entire period.
    As I've pointed this out already, GW already wrote stories about wars in that period where there were rocket launchers and cannons.
    I'm not expecting to respect their own fluff in that regard.
    Can you refresh my memory?

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  • Ghiznuk wrote:

    I believe the T9A supplement includes Fountains of magic and some very weird Special Items that interact with the scenery, though
    Yes. I like the bound spells in enchanted ground and the army specific stuff. It's a challenge to get people to use the army specific stuff though.

    I doubt that they'd use the Special items becuase these are the people who have moved from WFB (and therefore want what T9A is offereing) and not the ones still playing WFB (and therefore don't). I hope that makes sense?
    Never argue with Idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
  • Ghiznuk wrote:

    As I've pointed this out already, GW already wrote stories about wars in that period where there were rocket launchers and cannons.

    I'm not expecting to respect their own fluff in that regard.
    GW's fluff has evolved over a number of years and editions. Early Bretonnians had cannons but later editions cannons and bolt throwers were not acceptable for fluff reasons. The Trebuchet was invented by a peasant and deemed acceptable for practical reasons (knights needed artillery)

    Things change.
    Never argue with Idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
  • I'm really sad that I don't find the exact reference for what I am claiming, but here is what I found : Orcs and Goblins v8, p18 (… oh, there's a link here, anyway.)

    « While Gorbad ordered the Rock Lobbers dragged into place […] Even as the greenskin catapults engaged in long-ranged duel with the crude cannons of the Empire »
    ––> ok, maybe implied that gunpowder had just been invented ?

    « With its appetite sated, the Wyvern began to make a nest of banners and tapestries in the throne room, only to be slain by furious Reiksguard »
    ––> the Reiksguard is an order that was created in 2429, 700 years after Gorbad.
    But they are mentioned multiple times in that story.

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  • Sir_Sully wrote:

    Ghiznuk wrote:

    As I've pointed this out already, GW already wrote stories about wars in that period where there were rocket launchers and cannons.

    I'm not expecting to respect their own fluff in that regard.
    GW's fluff has evolved over a number of years and editions. Early Bretonnians had cannons but later editions cannons and bolt throwers were not acceptable for fluff reasons. The Trebuchet was invented by a peasant and deemed acceptable for practical reasons (knights needed artillery)
    Things change.
    Early Bretonnia was a Three Musketeers style country, not Arthurian legend.

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  • Isn't the setting of this new Warhammer taking place around the time when Mordheim was destroyed by the comet?

    I had marienburg warband in Mordheim and they definitely had access to black powder weapons. :)
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  • DanT wrote:

    Now it is probably true that the game I personally want[/i] is a more "elite" game, in the sense that I want my troop movements rather than army list or random dice rolls to determine the outcome.
    Most of the not-GW games do this, it is not something unique and there some that are easier to begin with and others that are "elite"

    I would call T9A "elite" because there is no learn to play Rulebook, just a Reference Book with all possibilities explained.
    Without fluff for everything and not knowing Warhammer Fantasy it is also hard to get in the setting (immersion)
    And it needs a lot of models to start with it.

    WastelandWarrior wrote:

    I never even bothered to read the rules of WHFB despite playing for a decade or so. I feel I know the T9A rules really quite well tbh.
    I knew a lot of people never read the rules of GW games, specially not if they learned it in a previous Edition.

    There were tournament players in 40k who played rules wrong for years as they never realised that it was changed and everyone trusted them to be right as they were the most experienced players.

    Not reading the rules and just assuming how things are based on past experience or what others tell is more of an indication that there are no readable rules or too many rules to begin with.

    Adicto wrote:

    The point is that T9A parted ways with its WHFB legacy quite a few years ago and right now it is its own thing; at least that's the official stance.
    It might be official, but it is not executed everywhere
    like looking on the boardgamesgeek entry and 2.0 shares its entry with 1.1 & 1.3 and therefore is still connected with "balanced 8th Edition" reviews.
    same on other forums were T9A can be found in the Warhammer Legacy subsections

    If the game is seen outside this forum as Warhammer Legacy game, its advertising needs to change
  • JimMorr wrote:

    Morheim is 1999+IC. Vampire Wars are 2050+ At this point Empire had a developed gunpowder weapons.
    Nothing prevents GW from starting Empire 1700IC without gunpowder weapons and adding such units within next 2 years in campaign extensions. :D
    Lol :D :D :thumbsup:
    Or as units to unlock if community does specific things such as « alliance with Dwarves » ? :)

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  • Part of the problem is the model neutral approach has led to some shocking armies. Historical Humans as vermin swarm / elves etc, basically whatever 20mm army you want to be.

    It doesn’t attract players to the game as it’s main draw is it’s fantasy.

    I never played WHFB so if some of the UK armies had been at my local club I’d probably never have started 9th.
  • weird. I've only seen the positive side. Big armies of Mierce Miniatures Monsters. Awesome elf armies made from Lastsword and Raging Heroes minis, and the exceptional 3d sculpted and printed equitaine army of @Marcos24!

    Mostly it's still GW minis though. Orcs for Orcs, Skaven for VS, etc.

    I'd be bummed if I had to play a lego army at a tourney for sure, but I believe stuff like this is the exception not the rule. You must live in a fun area.
  • Honestly the only thing enticing me about the old world coming back is a setting in which all our groups can be on the same page and make some narrative campaigns where we already have a head start on the story. What i'm not looking forward to is the same old characters all over again, having to comp our own systems and figure out whats fair, then explain the same old tweaks to the next person i play. The balance for this game is done for the most part.. just focus on the setting now please.

    For all those that want a change every few months to "shake things up", go play a different game or WHF 8th, or 7th or 6th or whatever, cant shake things up more than doing that
  • Balance

    rules

    Balance

    Unbalanced

    T9A is better

    No WFB is better.

    It really doesnt matter - play what you want to and enjoy it. If people drop to go back to GW then let them, its what they enjoy. If people go you know what - i prefer 9th now - thats also cool.

    Im excited to see what they do and most importantly how they are going to do it. It could be great - it could be bad. Some people wont care either way.
  • From a business point of view, if I was GW and had come up with WH:TOW, it would have been for these reasons:
    -the company's assumption that WHFB is a stagnant, high-cost, low-profit market has proven false
    -Mantic are proving able to invest in their design/R&D processes, therefore there is a market and we need to reconsider tapping into it
    -the popularity of Kings of War and 9th Age and the availability of models for both show that there's sufficient interest in a strategic, 'old world' game

    Based on 1) the above, 2) their current stance of making the rules less of a burden, and 3) the new Apocalypse game seeming to rely on wound markers to speed up play, I suspect that they'll aim for something on a similar level to Kings of War. If so, the realm of ultra-detailed rules will remain safely in the hands of 9th Age.
  • GW may attempt a Re-boot but I doubt it will be a winner. Their current model range is terrible. Give me 90’s perry twins sculpts any day. They don’t have the dream team of late 80’s and early 90’s fantasy writers to create the fluff that inspires you to collect an army. Every new release gets worse and worse. AOS is an abomination and will be a huge influence on everything they create. I am 90% pessimistic and 10% optimistic about it.

    im clearly not their target audience.

    maybe time to break out the 6th ed and ravening hordes books.