New concept for questing knights

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  • Ivar K wrote:

    With frenzy (example from impetuous) and a champion a dart of 3 knights has 7 attacks and 3 horse attacks.
    I don't think frenzy gives you an extra attack any more. They split that into Frenzy (for units too keen to wait for combat) and Battle Focus which gives bursting hits on 6s.
    Never argue with Idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
  • Marcos24 wrote:

    I like that. Questing Knights have average stats but for every “quest” achieved, of a number of them “floating around throughout the game” the gain a certain amount of tokens (rerolls) that the can use at any given time for any given situation
    So would spending a token allow you to reroll a single dice or all dice rolled. So if I roll ten 1s when rolling to hit with my 9 knight unit, do I need to spend 10 tokens to reroll them all or one?

    I think rerolling a single dice would feel a bit meh, but equally in my example, rerolling all 10 is powerful. Rerolling all dice (usually) carries a risk that you lose your sucesses so there's a trade off there.

    Alternatively it could allow you to reroll X failures. I feel X would need to be more than 1, maybe 2 would be enough? I suppose it all depends on how easy or dificult it is to gain tokens in the first place.
    Never argue with Idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
  • @Sir_Sully if the tokens are easy to generate and the questing knights start with a token or two then it would be 1 token to re-roll 1 dice. And this can be used on leadership, charges too which is pretty strong.
    If its super hard to generate them then the token effect should be more powerful like re-rolling a set of dice rolls.
  • @Sir_Sully I was thinking 1 for 1, but I think mechanics could be designed so that 2-3 are generated each turn, but maybe have a maximum amount that can accumulate each turn, maybe 5? Like successfully complete charges, causing wounds, passing discipline tests, etc

    The fluff being that they’re being assisted by the Lady towards being successful in their quest due to their strong faith.
  • Stygian wrote:

    Also as fluffy as it would be the army needs no more incentive to take grail anything. Giving them tokens would basically shoe horn the army into always taking grails like now. The token generators should be quests. And maybe crusaders and the reliquary.
    I don't see grail always being taken as a problem. KoE has the least amount of unit cards solely because the players don't want new units. ....so ipso defacto, you get alot of similar auto-includes
    So grail knights being in every list isn't a problem, it's a feature. :)

    ---------------------------------

    I also wanted to touch on the process of designing units and how it's hard to make detailed rules at this stage without knowing what the rest of the book can look like. The restriction on grails being human stats. I prefer 2 wounds but if thats impossible then we can explore other options like re-rolls. To design questing knights properly I gotta know what grails are doing. I gotta know what Knights of the Realm and Knights aspirant's roles are.
    Are peasants going to get anykind of rework? Is there is going to be a crusading theme? A robin hood theme? And are these full themes or sub-themes? I think we are all for the overall Religious theme which is partially represented by the Blessing.
    And what about the peasants religious faith? can they get the blessing? If not then how is their faith represented if religion is going to be central theme in the book?

    That's why I'm kinda leaning towards faith tokens useable for the whole army. Peasants don't get the blessing but the player has a choice to use a token on them every once in a while to show that their faith does pay off once in a while.
    If knights are limited to humans stats then situational re-rolls is a great way to give them a 1 time boost. And it's a cool way to represent their religious faith.
    Questing knights being the primary token generators is a pretty cool role for them in my opinion. and there is tons of wiggle rooms on how to implement that.

    And when we look at all the armies of T9A, one goal is to have each army with some kind of uniqueness to it. Sure we can just do raw stats and bubble effects but that's not enough design space for 18 armies to be unique.

    ----------------------------------------

    All that being said. I'm still brainstorming.
    When thinking about it, I wouldn't want the faith tokens to dominate the army feel. And that's to make room for the other themes in the book whatever they may be(crusaders, robin hood, regular feudal knights, etc...). All units believe in the lady so can benefit from tokens, but it's up to the player to build around it.

    So upon furthur reflection I would have only a few tokens in list building. Restrict this to mostly grail vow stuff(this is partially fluff based and assuming grail knights remain with human statlines).
    1 token for character with grail vow
    1 token for damsel(maybe with grail vow? how ever the damsel re-do works out).
    1 token for grail knights
    1 token for sacred relic.

    And then only Questing Vow units can generate tokens. So now we've created a Religious Quest army theme that players can build around. But keep in mind players could opt to do the peasant robin hood theme, or the regular knights theme, or virtuous angel theme, whatever.
    The wiggle room with how Questing knights generate tokens can still leave room for the other ideas in this thread about them selecting a bonus at start of battle - or even rolling for that bonus.
    Maybe: the list of quests let you generate a token on a 4+. But you can roll on the table and then a specific quest generate a token on a 2+(or automatic). This can be tweaked to regulate the token generation so it's easier for LAB to balance. PLUS you get a stat bonus that helps with completing that quest.
    Example:
    Slay the Monster: the knights get +1to wound vs gigantic models. Token for killing gigantic models
    Slay the hordes: the knights get +1to hit vs scoring. Token for killing scoring units
    Save the day!: charge roll is maximized when charging an enemy unit already engaged with a friendly unit. Token for completing that charge.
    etc...
  • What if the Army gained it in the Praying Rule?

    The army would generate:

    1 Token for a character with Grail Oath
    1 Token for each Damsel
    D3 Tokens if the army chooses to Pray

    (Questing Knights can increase this amount of dice by fulfilling some quest)

    You generate these dice at the beginning of each of the game rounds, and they can be used to reroll ANY dice roll during this game round (game round also including your opponents turn.)

    Say you get 3 (Grail Char, Damsel, Damsel) + you roll a 2. So you get 5 re-rolls.

    This being every turn makes it decent, but not OP. There would be choices to be made.
  • Marcos24 wrote:

    @Sir_Sully I was thinking 1 for 1, but I think mechanics could be designed so that 2-3 are generated each turn, but maybe have a maximum amount that can accumulate each turn, maybe 5? Like successfully complete charges, causing wounds, passing discipline tests, etc

    The fluff being that they’re being assisted by the Lady towards being successful in their quest due to their strong faith.
    If you're generating lots of tokens a turn then 1-1 isn't bad.

    I think 2-3 might need to translate to 2 dice each, especially if there's a hard cap. I'd prefer a softer cap, like you can only use X tokens per phase or only on a single unit in each phase or something.

    I was just worried that we'd end up generating a single token per turn to reroll a single dice, which is a bit meh... :)
    Never argue with Idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
  • Depends on what dice is rerolled. 1 dice a turn can be godlike.. For example 1 dice a turn for any reroll is broken.

    1 dice a turn used for a single hit, wound, armour, aegis, discipline test I would say is still potentially too strong but I'd like to have it.

    Now if these are only for RNF then it gets a lot less attractive but still good.

    The more dice the less impact they would need to have and more book keeping. I'd probably want somewhere in the middle.
    "Realistically (unless you're DanT or some other genius) you need characters.." -Sir_Sully

    AVOIDANCE FAILS 28% OF THE TIME FOLKS. -SE
  • My opinion is that something simple and practical always works. Why no give to the army four or five different kind of blessing? And you choose one at the begining of the battle. Only with this the army wins in versavility and you dont need thousands of rules.

    That is all
    The Al-Qassar Sultanates (Homebrew)
    Halflings (Homebrew)
    Silexian Goblins (Homebrew)
    Feral Orcs (Homebrew)

    The post was edited 1 time, last by setrius ().

  • BrykJagz wrote:

    Concept part 3.
    Knights are a part of a specific Kingdom.
    Each Kingdom has different bluffs, debuffs, locked and unlocked units, access to different special items or stat changes to specific units.
    I still like this the most ( see UD or DE cults)

    Stygian wrote:

    I could see something like that making it in. And I'd love it. Questors deserve something unique and good.

    But wait there's something missing..
    uragh! Where's @Klexe?!
    lying sick in bed and beeing to sick to even sit at the pc... stupid corona^^

    Sir_Sully wrote:

    Ivar K wrote:

    With frenzy (example from impetuous) and a champion a dart of 3 knights has 7 attacks and 3 horse attacks.
    I don't think frenzy gives you an extra attack any more. They split that into Frenzy (for units too keen to wait for combat) and Battle Focus which gives bursting hits on 6s.
    correct

    Marcos24 wrote:

    @Peacemaker Grails already do not have humans stats with off/def 5 and Res 4
    correct

                    

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  • RollTheDice wrote:

    Get well soon @Klexe!!!

    Here in Northern Italy we're all locked in, schools & universities closed, limited movement, health workers coopted and whoever can is strongly invited to work from home.

    Needless to say, no gaming.

    Best mate

    Sorry for going off topic
    wow, and nations like mine still won't close their borders.
    Useless corrupt system.