Pinned Infernal Dwarf Legendary Army Book Feedback Thread

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    The latest issue of the 9th Scroll is available! You can read all about it in the news.

    The brand new army book for Infernal Dwarves is finally available, along with a small surprise! Remember that it is a beta version, and provide us your feedback!

    • Not ID player. So remember that when listening. The book at first glance look great. Have only two issues:
      Overlord feels a bit lacking in terms of flavour, but I think will require testing.
      Vassals feels less interesting than slaves. They really need at least some kind of flavour.
      DH - main
      WODG - secondary
      OK - reborn be my childhood army
      DL - side project
    • First read-through (and watched the whole of Proxy Table Gaming's 2hr epic video review :) ). Feelings:

      -lots of synergy, excellent work!

      -H spell: love it. Earthquake/bubbling up lava feel

      -I'm sad that the Bound Daemon upgrade for things like Titan Mortar has gone. I had converted a Defiler to be basically a titan mortar on clawed legs... but now I can't use it unless I remodel it. What was the problem with the Bound Daemon?

      -Lamassu Scholar: blind spellcasting is just silly. Not going near this one - feels contrary to the spirit of the game to me

      -Infernal Bastion: 20 models in any ranks able to shoot and in all directions? That's 40k. I'm not at all interested in things that just bypass the structures of the game like that. This whole unit feels like a McGuffin.

      -Disciples of Lugar: I don't mind losing Unbreakable, always found it a bit 'flat', ie. I could just hurl them at something and come back later. Feigned Flight feels like something more characterful and that I'll have fun playing with.

      Clearly massive amounts of work have gone into this book. I'm genuinely stunned :thumbsup:
    • Now that everything is out, I can officially geek out about the lore book that released with it.

      The Epic of Kibotesh is hands down my favorite thing to ever come out of this game.

      Yes, I love the game, and the armies, and I am super excited to play, but everything else pales in comparison to that Epic.

      I'm thinking of printing out a copy for my office :)
    • Kriegschmidt wrote:

      -I'm sad that the Bound Daemon upgrade for things like Titan Mortar has gone. I had converted a Defiler to be basically a titan mortar on clawed legs... but now I can't use it unless I remodel it. What was the problem with the Bound Daemon?

      -Lamassu Scholar: blind spellcasting is just silly. Not going near this one - feels contrary to the spirit of the game to me
      1. Check out the Steel Juggernaut upgrade for the Infernal Engine!

      2. It's not blind. It's your opponent gambling between 2 spells that he/she is aware of. He/she could save dice enough for both in many cases.
      :ID: :WDG_bw: :DE: :VC:
    • Had no games. so just a feeling.

      1: What rules do you enjoy using?
      Think Infernal Brand + Incendiary/oil body. Awesome synergi.

      The new H spell looks cool.

      The new Volcanic embrace seems more balanced. Very good work.


      2: What rules do you not enjoy using?
      Dont like that we got a wall as an iteam :/ I will never use it.


      3: What rules are fine functionally, but worded in an overly-convoluted way?
      Evrythink is wordet fine :)


      4: What restrictions do you think are too light or too heavy?
      A lot of the iteams only works on infantry or non towering. Mask of ages(+1 armour),blaze of protection, Kadim bindings, gauntlet and so on. So will miss some of them for a Charactor on bull.




      5: What unit feels too expensive (but the design feels fine)?
      The design for the Kadim Chariot is spot on, maybe it needs +2 armour oh cheaper.

      Blunderbus feels expensive.

      Bows 3/models. fells like a lot. Time will tell.

      150 point for Ritual on Overlord. seems like a lot of points for a "horse mount".

      6: What unit feels too cheap (But the design feels fine)?
      Dont know.


      7: What are your overall favourite units?
      Man i like alot what i se.
      Exited to try out Vessal Chiftains, it is a good fit for the army, with strong DIs. Hobgoblins/vessels.

      Units with pistols :)

      The new gunnery teams.


      8: What are your least favourite units?
      Taurukh commissioner, where did all he's armour go :O

      Taurukh anointed. Miss the armour.

      Kadim Titan (miss the Old badass titan).

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Harmonize ().

    • snottello wrote:

      Kriegschmidt wrote:

      -I'm sad that the Bound Daemon upgrade for things like Titan Mortar has gone. I had converted a Defiler to be basically a titan mortar on clawed legs... but now I can't use it unless I remodel it. What was the problem with the Bound Daemon?

      -Lamassu Scholar: blind spellcasting is just silly. Not going near this one - feels contrary to the spirit of the game to me
      1. Check out the Steel Juggernaut upgrade for the Infernal Engine!
      2. It's not blind. It's your opponent gambling between 2 spells that he/she is aware of. He/she could save dice enough for both in many cases.
      Already checked out the Infernal Engine. Like I say, I can't use my Bound Daemon model without remodelling it.

      Also: it's a shame that Battle Focus has gone from Warriors, etc. I found that characterful in the last book - that they'd get worse (from the opponent's POV) if they got 'into' fighting.
    • lawgnome wrote:

      Now that everything is out, I can officially geek out about the lore book that released with it.

      The Epic of Kibotesh is hands down my favorite thing to ever come out of this game.

      Yes, I love the game, and the armies, and I am super excited to play, but everything else pales in comparison to that Epic.

      I'm thinking of printing out a copy for my office :)
      And the last part of Tablet XI was magnificent.

      "They made a mighty compact. The compact was drawn up by Lugar. The gods signed in triplicate. The compact bound them to protect the World Flame for all time. There were other things written in the compact.

      Which the gods did not read"

      That sends chills down my spine. So good!
    • snottello wrote:

      Ah-ha, sounded as you had a pretty kool base for an Infernal Engine, Titan Mortar with Steel Juggernaut to me! Same base as well

      Possibly. It would feel like a hollow decision though, as what appealed to me was the idea that the little maniacs take a weapon of colossal firepower... and bind a daemon into it to make it an unstable monster of colossal firepower So I don't understand the logic of deleting it from the book - it seemed absolutely at home.
    • 3: What rules are fine functionally, but worded in an overly-convoluted way?

      I'm going to reword this to the following:

      What rules are interesting and/or unique but are overly complicated for the game?

      Keys to the Citadel: Universal Rule.
      During step 7 of the Pre-Game Sequence (Spell Selection), the model may gain one of the following for free:
      Flintlock Axe (2+)
      Great Weapon
      Infernal Weapon
      Paired Weapons
      In addition, the owner may choose a single Weapon Enchantment from the Arcane Compendium or this Army Book for any of the model’s weapons for free. This Weapon Enchantment does not count towards the model’s Special Item allowance.

      This is bad design.

      Any changes made to the common weapons and/or any of the ID weapons now have to be run through this rule, as do any new combinations of common magic items that are defensive (armor + talismans). This also creates the opportunity for slow-play (intentionally or otherwise) as people hum and haw over a dozen choices based on the matchup.

      Haven't looked at the power level (suspect it is quite high as well on a mounted/fast-moving model), just strictly from a design standpoint, I'm not a fan.

      Lammasu Scholars seem like the reverse example -- good design that isn't going to slow down the game and creates a new design space that hasn't been explored before (secrets). Flavorful, not inherently overpowered.

      Like this a lot more.


      Feedback overall

      This book has got to be the most convoluted thing to read/look through. The layout team clearly had to do backflips just to get everything onto the page. This makes the game super complicated, both to play and to play against.

      "Are you sure that's what it does? Let me read that" suddenly involves reading pages of text and having to lookup multiple complicatedly-worded rules.

      Feels like it was written by a rules lawyer.

      On a similar point, this book as more "If, then" statements than any other -- this should probably be simplified to "choose-one" language to be n the same vein as other books and prevent overlapping/confusion.


      Feedback on power level

      I'll withhold judgement until playtcsting with/against, but I fully expect there to be multiple exploitable synergies. There are 3-4 builds that spring to mind.

      Also -- no % of army restriction on artillery seems weird and against T9A changes elsewhere. 2x Infernal Engine War Machines + 2 gunnery teams + 2 artillery + 2 slingshots doesn't seem to be in line with guidance elsewhere to reduce spamming of a single choice, etc. Is 8 pieces of artillery (6 of which are powerful) really intended?


      Kind regards,

      Axiem

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Axiem ().

    • So first thank you to the deisgner and all the team who work on this book, it's a really really good job for me. Synergie every where, funy mechanic ( lamasu), a real spirit for this army.


      + Vassal cavalery are Insame !!!

      + Blunder buss so good

      + Big Tower of prohpete is really good

      + Roquette Gun team + Kadim with the vassal <3

      + Banner who drop a Wall, excellent

      + Immortal are now really immortal

      + Infernal engin is really good design, a lot of option.

      - Kadim are the loser of this book for me, ok with oil skin ,they are buff indirectly , but F5 PA1 so bad for me and for the same price.

      - Kadim titan is the second looser of this book for me
      ETC 2017 Salamanca Luxembourg ID
      ETC 2018 Zagreb Luxembourg ID

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Wally ().

    • Some great ifeas and options - well done.

      I do have a slight concern about the min unit size of 12 for warriors. Dont know about anyone else but most of my specially purchased movement trays for my ID army are based around 5s not 6’s.

      How about minimum unit size 10?
      Member of North Herts Wargamers

      “As a Rocks player, I find Scissors to be nicely balanced but Paper is overpowered...”
    • Axiem wrote:

      Also -- no % of army restriction on artillery seems weird and against T9A changes elsewhere. 2x Infernal Engine War Machines + 2 gunnery teams + 2 artillery + 2 slingshots doesn't seem to be in line with guidance elsewhere to reduce spamming of a single choice, etc. Is 8 pieces of artillery really intended?


      Kind regards,

      Axiem
      You are limited by maximum of 6 pieces. Not 8.
      Considering that weapons teams limited to 0-3, the maximum pieces can't exceed 4. With weapon teams taking 3 points, and artilery taking 2, you will have only point of allowance left, which you can spend on Engineer upgrade.
      DH - main
      WODG - secondary
      OK - reborn be my childhood army
      DL - side project

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Happy Aspid ().

    • Axiem wrote:




      Feedback on power level

      I'll withhold judgement until playtcsting with/against, but I fully expect there to be multiple exploitable synergies. There are 3-4 builds that spring to mind.

      Also -- no % of army restriction on artillery seems weird and against T9A changes elsewhere. 2x Infernal Engine War Machines + 2 gunnery teams + 2 artillery + 2 slingshots doesn't seem to be in line with guidance elsewhere to reduce spamming of a single choice, etc. Is 8 pieces of artillery really intended?


      Kind regards,

      Axiem
      you have a cap in artillery Fires of Industry 6
      Only 6 points can be used. Infernal engine cost 2 pts, engineer cost 1 pts, slingnshot, 1 more... infernal arty 2 pts...

      So you can put 3 arty but only 2 of the same type, you can put for example...

      Rocket - Rocket - Titan ✅
      Rockey - Rocket - Rocket ❌
      Engineer - Engineer - Rocket - Mortar ✅

      Etc

      As i say, read the book, keep calm, breath, take notes and test it
      Kislev army thread, We need You!
      New Army book Hetmanate of Ukray
    • Warshout wrote:

      Quick question: how does the new Incendiary rule interact with Regeneration when you're on the last instance?
      It doesn't interact with regeneration at all. Incendiary makes the unit flammable, so regen saves will work regardless of how many instances of incendiary there are.

      Flaming attacks (which incendiary does not grant) will remove regen saves whether incediary is on the target or not. All incendiary does is allow those flaming attacks to reroll to wound.
      “You can never know everything, and part of what you know is always wrong. Perhaps even the most important part. A portion of wisdom lies in knowing that. A portion of courage lies in going on anyways.” -Lan Mandragoran, EotW


      Dovie’andi se tovya sagain.
    • Axiem wrote:

      This is bad design.

      Any changes made to the common weapons and/or any of the ID weapons now have to be run through this rule. This also creates the opportunity for slow-play (intentionally or otherwise) as people hum and haw over a dozen choices based on the matchup.

      Haven't looked at the power level (suspect it is quite high as well on a mounted/fast-moving model), just strictly from a design standpoint, I'm not a fan.
      I thought so, too, the first time I looked at it. But think about how list building normally goes - You pick the character, and you pick the weapons and items for the character to match what you want the character to be able to do.

      When you build a list with the new overlord, you still have an idea of what you want the character to do. This lets you alter it slightly depending on what you see. Lots of armor? Take the shield breaker. Lots of weak infantry? Take the flame of the east.

      None of the playtesters reported any problems with it, especially since it is just one character.