Nippon

This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our Cookie Policy.

  • All im reading here is that creators are better off not even trying. The dude spent years of his time trying to make something just for the team to stink wave at it.

    Im already done advocating for this game. Next live stream to my 20k subs im just going to tell them not to bother looking at the website.
    I am going to offend you. You are not going to like it. You will survive.

    Chaotic Neutral
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4uqqEMaAbH4fZ5debcBiWA

    Model Reviews with Twice the Brain Injuries!
  • geez, GB!
    you raised a relevant point, we came to support it, we made sure that Caledor had a chat with the people who know how a new book can fit into the existing stuff, we learnt about the reasons for being careful with the two book slots remaining available, we brainstormed about who wants which type of book next, i mean, ain't that enough?

    that's how collaborative projects work. it's a good outcome already. where does all this need for tension come from. as if there wasnt enough already.

    cmon.


  • The game design, the rules, the balance, the factions.. all that isn’t worth playing because you’re unhappy that Nippon won’t become official? Come on now... I’m pretty sure I know how you feel about the rioters... you’re basically doing the same thing by trashing something that doesn’t really have anything to do with this particular thread.

    Again, you’re just trying to force the hand of the founders of this game by threatening to turn other players away. It doesn’t matter that the ones in charge simply don’t share your taste, it’s your way or the highway. Got it

    @Caledoriv when you started this, had someone told you “just so you know, the book you’re start and finish will likely not be made official, at the very least not as you leave it”, would you have still made it?
  • piteglio wrote:

    geez, GB!
    you raised a relevant point, we came to support it, we made sure that Caledor had a chat with the people who know how a new book can fit into the existing stuff, we learnt about the reasons for being careful with the two book slots remaining available, we brainstormed about who wants which type of book next, i mean, ain't that enough?

    that's how collaborative projects work. it's a good outcome already. where does all this need for tension come from. as if there wasnt enough already.

    cmon.
    This is a constant thing. The Dev team wants yes men. They want people on to powder their butt holes and im just fed up with it. Im done defending them, and their actions. I defended this game because I believed that the team would take in the community with them, not sit on their high horses and act like this is all some cross they have to bear and how they should be thanked like they are soldiers returning from a deployment.


    Im done, I wash my hands of Stunt and his abusive nature, and of the Dev Team that just tarries along on their own time without expanding the team to get things done, just so they can hold onto this stupid internet power-hold they believe in.

    Im Done. Piteglio, this game doesn't even deserve you, or your time.
    I am going to offend you. You are not going to like it. You will survive.

    Chaotic Neutral
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4uqqEMaAbH4fZ5debcBiWA

    Model Reviews with Twice the Brain Injuries!
  • Grouchy Badger wrote:

    piteglio wrote:

    geez, GB!
    you raised a relevant point, we came to support it, we made sure that Caledor had a chat with the people who know how a new book can fit into the existing stuff, we learnt about the reasons for being careful with the two book slots remaining available, we brainstormed about who wants which type of book next, i mean, ain't that enough?

    that's how collaborative projects work. it's a good outcome already. where does all this need for tension come from. as if there wasnt enough already.

    cmon.
    This is a constant thing. The Dev team wants yes men. They want people on to powder their butt holes and im just fed up with it. Im done defending them, and their actions. I defended this game because I believed that the team would take in the community with them, not sit on their high horses and act like this is all some cross they have to bear and how they should be thanked like they are soldiers returning from a deployment.

    Im done, I wash my hands of Stunt and his abusive nature, and of the Dev Team that just tarries along on their own time without expanding the team to get things done, just so they can hold onto this stupid internet power-hold they believe in.

    Im Done. Piteglio, this game doesn't even deserve you, or your time.

    Mate... really? The right spot for variant human armies is either KoE or EoS. There's people who think this can work and others who don't. There's basically no way to guarantee every staff member is a hive mind.

    And we're expanding teams, but srsly... the problem is not too few cooks, but too many. A small team is faster at decision-making than a big one. (The big team has more diverse opinions, and needs more people to come to an accord)

    So I guess yes, you need "yes men"... because every time someone digs in their heels and decides to die on a hill, the process screams to a halt.

    So what do you want? People who'll stand up to the brass and pick hills to die on, or faster output? Because the only way to get more of one is to sacrifice the other.

    Background Team

  • Grouchy Badger wrote:

    This is a constant thing. The Dev team wants yes men. They want people on to powder their butt holes and im just fed up with it. Im done defending them, and their actions. I defended this game because I believed that the team would take in the community with them, not sit on their high horses and act like this is all some cross they have to bear and how they should be thanked like they are soldiers returning from a deployment.


    Im done, I wash my hands of Stunt and his abusive nature, and of the Dev Team that just tarries along on their own time without expanding the team to get things done, just so they can hold onto this stupid internet power-hold they believe in.

    Im Done.
  • Marcos24 wrote:

    @Caledoriv when you started this, had someone told you “just so you know, the book you’re start and finish will likely not be made official, at the very least not as you leave it”, would you have still made it?
    I started with Nippon years before T9A even existed ;) .
    In the beginnings of T9A, I still "had hope" for it. But after some time (maybe 1 year?), I realised that it won't happen (at least not in the next 10 or so years). Partly also because some people told me exactly that.

    @Grouchy Badger
    I have made this same mistake before: I thought because it is a community project the community would have a say in it. But that is not the case. And I became really angry about this (not in the context of Nippon, but in the context of KoE... I'm sure many people know which period I'm talking about.)
    I have long since accepted that I have no influence whatsoever on any decisions made by the project. When looking at it this way, you don't get frustrated.
    I hope you calm down and don't quit the game because of the Nippon book.
  • This thread is becoming a slagging match now. While I am a little surprised by a few of the comments made in this thread and share frustrations that Nippon won't get their own list (though they may get a supplement) nor will this 'homebrew' list be made official, we have gone through a constructive discussion to something that is now counter-productive. What needed to be said has been said. There is no point protesting the points made. It is what it is. The future isn't set in stone and things may change (there are clearly other priorities and a road map for the next few years but if the Nippon theme proves to be popular and there is enough call for something more, in future changes might be made) for now however there is no point flogging this proverbial dead horse.
    It is a shame, just use the homebrew list for friendly games or make do with using Nipponese models as EoS, KoE (or a list of your choice really) for 'official games' (if bothered with competitive play) until a supplement (or full army book) is made available. It may be less satisfying as they won't have the style and character they should, but what can you do? The committee's stance has been made perfectly clear. There is no point throwing insults or slagging off the 9th Age, it wont change anything and it just makes you look petty.
    That rumbling's not thunder, the great maw hungers!!

    I lead the mightiest ogre horde in Bristol!

    WHFB armies: High Elves, Ogre Kingdoms, Lizardmen, Skaven, Nippon Empire, Dwarf Slayers, & Orcs & Goblins.
    40k armies: Black Templars & Orks
    Warmahordes: Legion of Everblight & Rhulic Mercenaries
    Mailifaux factions: Ten Thunders & Viktorias
    Necromunda: Cawdor gang
  • Grouchy Badger wrote:

    Vulgarsty wrote:

    Grouchy Badger wrote:

    Vulgarsty wrote:

    I think we are going to have some real world presentational issues if we suggest the Tsuandan (read Chinese) faction are demons in human skins in the current climate.... Sounds like Trump’s Twitter account ;)
    No one asked for your politcal views in this thread, nor are they needed.
    I thought the wink gave a clue, but that was a topical joke not a political opinion.
    Keep it on reddit.

    Seeing how "nice" you are to others, doesn't make me want to change your mind. Goodbye

    Tool Support Battle Scribe

    DE Community Support


    My blog with battle reports and painting gallery: bleaklegion.wordpress.com/
  • Caledoriv wrote:

    I have made this same mistake before: I thought because it is a community project the community would have a say in it. But that is not the case. And I became really angry about this (not in the context of Nippon, but in the context of KoE... I'm sure many people know which period I'm talking about.)

    I have long since accepted that I have no influence whatsoever on any decisions made by the project. When looking at it this way, you don't get frustrated.
    Let's make a scale.
    0%: the community has no influence whatsoever on any decisions made by the project
    100%: Whatever anyone in the community wishes, the project abides with.
    An insinuation that T9A is at 0% because you discovered that it is not at 100% lacks finesse.
    There is a lot in between.

    Advisory Board

    Background Team

    Social Media Team

    - druchii.net contribution: The 9th Age - Dread Elves
  • @Caledoriv I find it sad, you arriving at that conclusion. I want to stress the point that @Calisson makes: It's somewhere between those extremes, and it is necessary. We all know how many people in the community want fundamentally different things, so these can't ever be pleased. It doesn't mean of course, that improvements are impossible or that everything is fine the way it is. On the other hand, I think many community members are far too entitled on their own.

    ====

    Back on topic: I am honestly unsure what the goal, plan, and agreed goals of this thread concerning Nippon for T9A is.

    Can somebody summarize the result and/or what we learned?

    I would love the book to be raised from Homebrew to Game Supplement Status (same status as e.g. Makhar). Caledoriv already signalled readiness to rework the names, background and the whole book to conform to the process of T9A and the background. Personally I think a supplement for EoS would be better fitting than a standalone book, but that's just my personal opinion.

    So the question for me would be: Is the project able to provide (or recruit) the necessary manpower to handle the "integration work"? Or can this be ruled out? If ruled out: What kind of project help can @Caledoriv get to move the Homebrew gradually closer to the T9A core? If some steps are already taken now, maybe with a commitment to actually include the work later on, we can save time when the east-asian faction will get included.

    Tool Support Battle Scribe

    DE Community Support


    My blog with battle reports and painting gallery: bleaklegion.wordpress.com/
  • DarkSky wrote:

    @Caledoriv I find it sad, you arriving at that conclusion. I want to stress the point that @Calisson makes: It's somewhere between those extremes, and it is necessary. We all know how many people in the community want fundamentally different things, so these can't ever be pleased. It doesn't mean of course, that improvements are impossible or that everything is fine the way it is. On the other hand, I think many community members are far too entitled on their own.

    ====

    Back on topic: I am honestly unsure what the goal, plan, and agreed goals of this thread concerning Nippon for T9A is.

    Can somebody summarize the result and/or what we learned?

    I would love the book to be raised from Homebrew to Game Supplement Status (same status as e.g. Makhar). Caledoriv already signalled readiness to rework the names, background and the whole book to conform to the process of T9A and the background. Personally I think a supplement for EoS would be better fitting than a standalone book, but that's just my personal opinion.

    So the question for me would be: Is the project able to provide (or recruit) the necessary manpower to handle the "integration work"? Or can this be ruled out? If ruled out: What kind of project help can @Caledoriv get to move the Homebrew gradually closer to the T9A core? If some steps are already taken now, maybe with a commitment to actually include the work later on, we can save time when the east-asian faction will get included.

    Note: Haven't read the actual homebrew. General thoughts and points.


    As you say, given it makes most sense as an EoS auxiliary, probably the most important things Caledoriv can do are:

    1) Be absolutely fine with surrendering IP rights to the project (this is non-negotiable, it's fundamental to how the project can function at all).

    2) Begin plucking out elements that aren't his own creation (so that he *can* surrender IP rights in their entirety). That means things related to the WH project. Keep going until it's wholly your own IP, then offer to donate it (per #1). Maybe chat to someone in Legal about the requirements thereof.

    3) Find someone on background to offer cryptic advice. It'll be cryptic because there's limits on what we're supposed to say, but if you can find someone who feels they have time and understand things, great! (Or apply to be that person, but no guarantees it'll work)

    4) Perhaps move it in such a fashion as to make it a better EoS auxiliary (so make sure it's different from EoS in some crucial ways, while still being based around the same basic human profile). Alternatively, maybe consider how it might work as a KoE auxiliary (personally, I think that's the best shot here - Samurai are a knightly class, whereas I say MEH to actual history and the dominance of gunpowder :) - also, Tsunduan is very likely to be an EoS auxiliary, so it's better not to compete with them directly).

    5) Be patient, as there's only so many slots for auxiliaries and what we are actually doing is releasing them alongside appropriate books.

    Not sure this would work, but I think it's the best shot.

    Oh,

    0) Run this plan past someone more senior than me. :)

    Background Team

  • DarkSky wrote:

    [About Nippon] book to be raised from Homebrew to Game Supplement Status (same status as e.g. Makhar).
    [Q1.] Is the project able to provide (or recruit) the necessary manpower to handle the "integration work"?
    [Q2.] Or can this be ruled out?
    [Q3.] If ruled out: What kind of project help can @Caledoriv get to move the Homebrew gradually closer to the T9A core?
    If some steps are already taken now, maybe with a commitment to actually include the work later on, we can save time when the east-asian faction will get included.
    Preliminary comment:
    Currently, T9A officially considers that all Homebrews have the potential to be an inspiration.

    This is not guaranteed, though, so even excellent Homebrew ideas may well not have reached the attention of a LAB team.
    When you find such an idea in a Homebrew dealing with a faction undergoing LAB process, it may be worth signalling it to the relevant team. LAB team members are not secret, they are published in a News when they are assembled, and ACS know them very well.
    This is already a much greater involvement of our community than any wargaming company I can think of.

    What is not decided yet is whether we can consider to go a step forward, and adapt a Homebrew work (not only alternative Army Books, also tentative rules for specific games such as multiplayers etc) to become a T9A supplement.
    Even less decided would be which procedure to follow to incorporate parts or all of a Homebrew work and adapt it to T9A standards.
    Note that we need to protect ourselves and be able to select the best Homebrew without being submerged by a zillion calls by fans eager to make "their" Homebrew official.
    We know that there is a demand for this (as this very thread proves amply), and this is one of the topics we're discussing internally... at our usual, very slow speed, due to all of us having not only a real life but also very demanding T9A commitments.

    Now I can try and reply.
    [A1.] If T9A decided that some selected Homebrews could become official supplements and if there was a procedure agreed for that purpose, and in the hypothesis that Nippon would be one of them, then yes, of course, T9A team would recruit the necessary team, and that would very likely include the Homebrew main author(s), even those not in T9A team.
    [A2.] T9A has not made any official decision yet. There are pros and cons, obviously you see the pros, accept that there are cons, and leave us some more time to mature a decision.
    [Q3.] Not sure to understand the question, I interpret it as the hypothesis that Nippon would remain unofficial but 18th LAB would be decided in the future to be Japanese-inspired. I believe that Nippon is already as close as it could, with balanced rules, available models, and no fluff which would need to be reworked, not forgetting an enthusiastic group fo fans; additionally it has already caught the attention of most T9A top management. This is only my personal opinion, though.

    Advisory Board

    Background Team

    Social Media Team

    - druchii.net contribution: The 9th Age - Dread Elves
  • Grouchy Badger wrote:

    All im reading here is that creators are better off not even trying. The dude spent years of his time trying to make something just for the team to stink wave at it.
    Our local scene regards all of T9A as Homebrew WHFB. Be it the official devs or "Homebrew" creators, adding content to the game is appreciated.

    As for the line between official and unofficial T9A, I think you are dwelling too much on that line. It matters very little to this game.

    Not now, but eventually I hope to get the lexicons updated to include Nippon and the other supplements. I'm just very backlogged on lexicons. I think a lot of T9A is just backlogged, rather than being uncaring.
  • Eldan wrote:

    There's already stories written from Tsuandanese viewpoints in the Warriors. And I think the Daemons too?
    And in Ninth Scroll 7, report of an enquiry around three travellers

    Russian Translation Coordinator

    Translation-Team FR

    Public Relations

    Linguistic Team

    GHAÂAÂAÂARN ! — The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young
    First T9A player in West Africa
  • Ghiznuk wrote:

    Eldan wrote:

    There's already stories written from Tsuandanese viewpoints in the Warriors. And I think the Daemons too?
    And in Ninth Scroll 7, report of an enquiry around three travellers
    Correct, Tsuandan is mentioned (beyond its world map location) in UD illustrated book, Ninth Scroll #7, WDG & DL LABs - in the last two with several stories from this point of view and with peak in the thought and values of Tsuandan people. Definitely a human nation, although the Emperor and its court... human, reptilians, demons, shapeshifter?

    Waiting ID LAB impatiently anyway :D

    Tsuandan Warring States
    Cathay for T9A!
    ----------
    :totems: BH Homebrew :totems:
    Beastly Beasts without PI!
  • That's why I was saying, their army could potentially be « Take Sonnstahl, add dragon », or something, and change names of units and magic items.
    Anyway, even if to make a completely different book, it will not bring a 100% new and original playstyle on the table.

    ****

    As for Rising Sun, Equitaine, and cannons.

    Historical evidence shows that the samurai used cannons.
    But Hundred Years war knights and crusaders also used cannons and handguns.
    The first editions of Bretonnia had cannons.
    Cannons were removed for religious reasons, and to make the faction more flavourful and distinct.
    I would do the same with Rising Sun. No cannons, even though history shows the contrary.
    Anyway, why do you need cannons when you can get monsters and Shinto avatars in return ? :)

    Russian Translation Coordinator

    Translation-Team FR

    Public Relations

    Linguistic Team

    GHAÂAÂAÂARN ! — The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young
    First T9A player in West Africa
  • History also shows they loved guns and weren’t particularly favorable towards heavy cavalry, and in fact were at first primarily archers and horse archers first and foremost before focused on the sword. Not to mention all of the other things that have been insanely romanticized... for example Horo, an indication that turning their backs and retreating whether as a tactical redeployment or actual withdraw form battle was a frequent thing.. or how the period and conflict depicted in The Last Samurai really didn’t have “armored warriors attacking modern rank and file riflemen”, the samurai side fought in the same manner with rifles and regiments, and wore similar uniforms to western soldiers that were teaching them that type of warfare. The only thing they were trying to protect was their warrior elite social class.

    All of that depends on which point in time you pick. So sure Bretonnia had cannons at one point, but they were based on a different time than the most recent Bretonnian book. Crusaders of of a certain time period had cannons, but not all, and not the most famous, those that existed around the time period that KoE and later bretonnia is based on