Make Hierotitan Great Again

This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our Cookie Policy.

The latest issue of the 9th Scroll is available! You can read all about it in the news.

The brand new army book for Infernal Dwarves is finally available, along with a small surprise! Remember that it is a beta version, and provide us your feedback!

  • Make Hierotitan Great Again

    Hello everyone!


    After seeing the wonderful new book of Infernal Dwarves that includes new entries that the old book did not have like a new a war platform.


    I have been thinking that for our new book it would be very interesting to recover our beloved Hierotitan.


    That colossal creature that caused true terror among our enemies only with his presence!!!


    I am going to give you my idea about a Hierotitan and it would be super interesting if more people are encouraged to give their ideas of hierotitan and so we managed to include it in the new book.


    Height: Gigantic


    Type: Infantry


    Base: 100×150 mm


    Adv6’ Mar12’’


    Dis8 HP6 Def4 Res 7 Arm 1 Light Armour


    Att5 Off4 Str6 AP3 Agi2


    Model Rules:

    -Ensouled Statue

    -Fearless


    -Son of Phatep: this model gets necromantic aura 18UM’’ with the following rules:

    + Standard: reduce the number of Health Point losses caused by Unstable by 4.

    + Large: reduce the number of Health Point losses caused by Unstable by 2.

    +Gigantic: reduce the number of Health Point losses caused by Unstable by 1.

    *This bonus can be added to other bonuses like: Ensouled Statue or BSB.


    This rule emphasizes that the Hierotitan with its divine light prevents our troops from crumble too fast. This rule is a buff that mix very well with the philosophy of our army without being OP.


    What is your opinion?


    And you would like to have the hierotitan in our book again?


    Best regards!!!
  • Poor Soulossus is damn near guaranteed to get a large-scale rework the second UD's turn for a LAB comes, and the main question would indeed be 'how'.

    I happen to be a fan of this style of 'larger than life' support focused monster style as well, like the Idol of the OnG work.

    During the last design process of UD, we were already toying around with moving the soul colossus back into its own entry as 'Divine Idol', but it didn't pan out back then.
    Life is hard when you're a skeleton
  • There's also to consider, the Colossus itself. Comparable per-turn damage to the Sphinx, but much less resilient, and with a price tag that's a bit too close to the fat cat for comfort. Being on a 50x50 base is a nice thing, but...Only really does anything when you misplay the heck out of it. An even bigger question than 'what to do with the soul colossus', is what to do with the colossus?

    Though, I suppose that's neither here nor there. The Soul Colossus could also feasibly nick an upgrade from the Green Idol - Being a BSB. Having access to BSB on a support monster might actually make it worth considering, even.
    Life is hard when you're a skeleton
  • BSB monster sounds pretty spicey actually. I personally like the colossus quite a bit. At least the pw variety.. Its damage output is fantastic. I do feel like it could use more durability or a discount though.
    "When a man lies he murders some part of the world.. These are the pale deaths which men miscall their lives. All this I cannot bear to witness any longer. Cannot the kingdoms of Equitaine take me home" -Merlin/James Hetfield/KOE "To Live is To Die"
  • The colossus is pretty good where its at. It fills a really nice middle ground, its not as good at monster hunting as the Dread Sphinx and not as good at infantry killing as the Battle Sphinx, but can do either job pretty well if it has too.

    Maybe mine is just blessed, but it is usually the MVP of my games. I've had it for 20 years though, so maybe it's experience.
  • Perles wrote:

    I have been thinking that for our new book it would be very interesting to recover our beloved Hierotitan.

    That colossal creature that caused true terror among our enemies only with his presence!!!
    The Hierotitan made our magic phase terrifying, but wasn't really a strong combat monster. I miss having a strong magic phase and I hope the hierotitan can make a comeback as a support tool that makes our magic phase strong again.

    Perles wrote:

    Dis8 HP6 Def4 Res 7 Arm 1 Light Armour
    It seems a tad vulnerable compared to a sphinx, which has higher armor, higer resilience and smaller base size in exchange for only 1 more HP.
    TBH, I think the problem is with the sphinx more than the hierotitan, but with the existing sphinx at its side, this model seems strangely fragile.

    Perles wrote:

    -Son of Phatep: this model gets necromantic aura 18UM’’ with the following rules:
    + Standard: reduce the number of Health Point losses caused by Unstable by 4.
    + Large: reduce the number of Health Point losses caused by Unstable by 2.

    +Gigantic: reduce the number of Health Point losses caused by Unstable by 1.
    I really like it. It only helps when losing (so it doesn't help our deathstar playstyle) and makes us more grindy. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

    Palmu wrote:

    I happen to be a fan of this style of 'larger than life' support focused monster style as well, like the Idol of the OnG work.
    I think in the rework we have more than enough space for a War colossus and a support titan.

    rolan wrote:

    If a unit within the necromantic aura is target of a spell that raises HP, add +1 to the number of raised HP.
    This would work incredibly well with monster and awfully with skellies. Not a big fan of such a skew.
    Also, this is strongly linked with our healing, which I suspect will change radically once the LAB is done.

    Palmu wrote:

    Comparable per-turn damage to the Sphinx, but much less resilient, and with a price tag that's a bit too close
    The colossus is much stronger than the Sphinx in damage. An equivalent number of attacks but with higher STR/AP. The high STR and AP can help deal with problems other models in our army really can't. In recent times the colossus has been our most used monster.
    There is a reason the pricetag is so similar. :p

    Palmu wrote:

    The Soul Colossus could also feasibly nick an upgrade from the Green Idol - Being a BSB.
    I really like this idea :)
  • Personally, my preferred idea would be to change all constructs and standarize them. Make a clearer division between bone and stone.
    Stone models with stronger stats, but less access to special rules.
    Bone models weaker in stats, but with stronger special rules, movement and numbers/resurrection.

    Specifically, Stone models would be more durable (+ Res, + Hp) but less armor and less AP or Str compared to their current version.
    For example:

    Guardian: Standard, Str 4, AP 0. Res 4, Arm 2, parry, speed 4/8.
    Shabties: Large, Str 5, AP 1, Res 5, Arm 2, speed 5/10.
    Sohinxes: Gigantic, Str 5, AP 2, Res 7, Arm 2, HP 7, speed 5/12.
    Colossus: Gigantic, Str 6, Ap 2, Res 7, Arm 3, HP 6, speed 6/12. No grind.


    About the Hierotitan, I think we could have a great support model. Make him durable and hard to kill, not as much damage in CC and give him three options:
    1) Scales: Boost magic somehow (channel 2?) and 2 bound spells (at least 1 usable in combat, at least 1 at range).
    2) Bow: Mobile ballista that buffs a shooting unit nearby somehow (maybe allow LoS to be drawn from the colossus for nearby units or improve aim)
    3) A Standard/Relic: This one boost "morale", which could be represented as the BSB bonus, autonomous aura or crumble reduction.

    And have the colossus focus just on CC, with PW, GW and halberd/shield options.


    Something else that I have been pondering about is having a Obelisk and/or Pyramid as a model in the battlefield.
    Probably immobile and giving some bonus to nearby units. Or as a "magic" shooting unit.
    Could even be an alternative option to the casket. Make the casket a warmachine with two options.
    What do you think about this idea?
  • Mechanically Res 8 works really well, but it makes little sense in the game.

    The best tools to kill a giant stone sphinx are small arrows, spears and poison, while catapults, bolt throwers and strong guys with massive hammers are the less capable at dealing damage to it.

    I had this epiphany during a game when my HbE opponent charged his lion guard, specialist against monsters with massive axes, and they just got crushed by my sphinx. It seems surreal that these guys with axes and specialization in killing monsters are just worse at dealing with a Sphinx than the unit of citizens with spears at its side. :/
  • How would the sphinx or the other gigantic models compensate for reduced res and saves? I see the increased health but for undead taking more wounds is hard to fix with health.
    "When a man lies he murders some part of the world.. These are the pale deaths which men miscall their lives. All this I cannot bear to witness any longer. Cannot the kingdoms of Equitaine take me home" -Merlin/James Hetfield/KOE "To Live is To Die"
  • Well, it's all hypothetical. What really matters, is that the roles of the monsters are properly fleshed out and made appealing in their own ways. We see a much larger amount of Sphinxes over Colossi due to their multipurpose ability and over-all greater reliability, but also because the role of a Colossus in the army is not quite clear enough, I believe. It's a bit of a jack of all trades as far as monsters go, but that's an issue when the Sphinx is much the same.

    Personally I'd prefer to see one of the monsters, doesn't really matter which, become more effective in lists focusing on skeletal units, unlike the current moment where even considering combining monsters with skeletons is a poor idea.
    Life is hard when you're a skeleton
  • Folomo wrote:

    Mechanically Res 8 works really well, but it makes little sense in the game.

    The best tools to kill a giant stone sphinx are small arrows, spears and poison, while catapults, bolt throwers and strong guys with massive hammers are the less capable at dealing damage to it.

    I had this epiphany during a game when my HbE opponent charged his lion guard, specialist against monsters with massive axes, and they just got crushed by my sphinx. It seems surreal that these guys with axes and specialization in killing monsters are just worse at dealing with a Sphinx than the unit of citizens with spears at its side. :/
    The problem with res 6 is the sphenge lose their resistance to large damage dealers' but still keep their vulnerability to masses of small arms in effect making them worse overall.

    If they drop in res they need to have something like a regen save to make up for it. Or a massive pool a wounds to simulate the 30 foot solid stone statue durability.

    Personally I like the dynamic they have now, as they are monsters that are relatively resistant to anti monster assets the sphenge are unique.
  • Xarkhotep wrote:

    The problem with res 6 is the sphenge lose their resistance to large damage dealers' but still keep their vulnerability to masses of small arms in effect making them worse overall.
    Yup, which is why the perfect solution needs good ideas and a lot of math.
    But for example Resistance 7 and re-roll 6 to wound would make the sphinx slightly worse against Str 6+ but much better against Str3-5.

    Xarkhotep wrote:

    If they drop in res they need to have something like a regen save to make up for it. Or a massive pool a wounds to simulate the 30 foot solid stone statue durability.
    Yeah, a high pool of health or a reroll to-wound rolls are my favorites ideas so far, but UD HP restoration ability needs to be included here. If Ud can easily repair wounds, the Sphinx needs to be easier to wound and more HPs is the better option. if on the other hand HPs are hard to recover on monsters, the Sphinx needs to be extra durable but not have as may HPs.

    Xarkhotep wrote:

    Personally I like the dynamic they have now, as they are monsters that are relatively resistant to anti monster assets the sphenge are unique.
    We could keep the "resistance to anti monster tools" aspect.
    My main problem is the vulnerability to weak attacks.

    If the Sphinx were to keep the exact same rules, it needs a background that explain why weak arrows and feeble spears are the best tool to deal with this mighty beast.
  • Folomo wrote:

    If the Sphinx were to keep the exact same rules, it needs a background that explain why weak arrows and feeble spears are the best tool to deal with this mighty beast.
    I agree with this. Really this is a hold over from WHFB. When the TK 8th edition book was written it was intended for 7th edition where anything less than str 6 couldn't wound something with toughness of 8 thereby eliminating this particular idiosyncrasy.

    As for background reasons, the sphinx are stone, lots of small arrows/strikes would hit weak points/stress points easier than a single large object.

    Think Smaug vs Bard in the Hobit (book). A giant bolt wouldn't have been able to penatrate his scales, but a single arrow hit that missing scale.