A discussion leading nowhere and now closed

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  • Was it part or not of this project before is not what it is relevant for me. The past is the past, let's focus on today and our future.
    I think what we can learn from this interaction is the point I made just before

    Hebus wrote:

    But what he showed us, it is that we have no clue how well we are doing. We don't know if we are focusing our efforts in the right direction to perpetuate this project.
    And the resulting question:
    Do we want more "measurements" of the evolution of our project?
    Again, I'm not saying we must.
    Personally, I think that adding some could be a good idea, mainly a more active campaign to census all the active players. To show people if there is some activity around them. Same about the number (and time) of downloads.

    But I am a man of numbers ;) and I understand that's not everyone taste.
  • Ludaman wrote:

    Was I the only one who skimmed this thread and thought: “Trolololol, do not engage?”

    Some of the answers you guys have posted have been very well thought out, more than I would offer someone who created a new user name and then started a thread for what seems like the express purpose of saying “I left because I didn’t like the direction of the project and I’ll definitely be playing Warhammer the old world when it comes out”

    if the initial post didn’t scream it, the responses sure did, especially the peppered in: “I’m a hotshot at my job” lines.
    I'd like to add a post saying:

    'WTF'

    In response to the posts of this.. person.
  • Joel Elijah wrote:

    We all are well aware of the COVID situation . When i came back here i though the lockdown would increase the work hours of the team but for some reason it seems the opposite happened ( that is not my opinion but what @Calisson told in the announcements linked in the second post ) . That the progression slowed down during the lockdown does not make sense to me .
    This one stood out to me.

    OF COURSE the work slowed down.

    People getting "more free time" = / = people doing more volunteer work.

    Here are some likely scenarios for our users and staff members:

    - less opportunities to play "private" games (because of the lockdown)
    - fewer tournaments
    - little to no socialising in clubs

    Just those 3 points alone would have the potential to lead to a bit of "out of sight, out of mind", and could also decrease desire to paint, and do other hobby stuff.

    Why?

    Well, here are some additional reasons (off the top of my head, not a comprehensive list):

    - unstable work conditions (layoffs, etc.)

    - new work conditions (working from home, where applicable)

    - online fatigue

    - anxiety about possibly being exposed to COVID-19 at work (grocery stores, etc.)

    - changed routines due to COVID-19

    - parents with younger children would be hard pressed, because they had to work from home AND take care of their children at the same time

    - financial instability (getting fired/comissions or bonus-based income)

    - general sense of fear/uncertainty (exacerbated by media coverage and/or politicians)

    - extraverted individuals not being able to socialise and "recharge their batteries"

    - worse/less personal relationships with colleagues due to being physically apart

    - worse work-life balance, because work could technically be done 24/7, and conscientious people might have a problem "over-working" easily. Looking at quite a few staff members here!

    - friends & family being hit by COVID-19 (perhaps fatally)

    - being a chronically overworked health care worker

    - worse personal relationships, increased amount of divorces/breakups

    Would any of the reasons above lead to potential stress, depression or increased severity in anxiety symptoms?

    My educated guess would be: "hmmm... YES!"

    It is therefore my personal opinion that a volunteer organisation might expect to be hit by staff members losing energy, focus and perhaps a bit of motivation, EVEN though some of them technically had more time on their hands.

    There are certainly also people who have benefitted from working from home, and some people have enjoyed an "extra long holiday". But to my knowledge, that is far from the norm.

    TL;DR - new stressors, decreased energy levels, increased depression/stress/anxiety, less volunteer work = decrease in productivity.

    Execution Board

    HR Consultant

    Mr. Gobbo's Tricksy Gits :GobboFreaky:
  • I think the only one throwing a Tantrum here is @Joel Elijah

    "I want to know Everything NOW! You are all lazy and go down for sure!
    I don't want to answer your Question!
    I've done more then everyone else!"

    Thats how it sounds.


    I like the Game, the direction and will for sure not hop to "Warhammer - the old World" but for sure I hope they make some good Miniatures for T9A. ;)

    Dear Staff: Thanks for all the hard work and go on with it, it is very very appreciated!
  • @Mr.Gobbo I missed that bit. That is breathtaking ignorance and arrogance.

    Lockdown put me back on anti-depressants and beta blockers, for many of the reasons you gave, attitudes like this make me sick. I would have achieved far more Work for the BGT if COVID had not happened.
    Mental Health First Aider (MHFA England)

    "Remember what punishments befell us in this world when we did not cherish learning, nor transmit it to others" - Alfred The Great


    Have a goosy gander at my models!
  • I would like to state that Joel Elijah has a very good point. What is the future for this project? The big picture. He is wondering is it possible for the project to survive in a healthy, steady environment with solid, constructive foundations for years to come?
    No, that is not possible, anyone who thinks so is very naive.

    It all depends, exclusivley, who is asking since there are a few, equally correct, answers for it. The thing is, it all comes down to what do (people asking this question) want. You want from the project to support your view of the hobby, you want to know should you continue to play this game if the thing you want is:
    - I want to play in tournaments with interesting, balanced armies and be able to win with a random faction.
    - I want to play friendly games where campaign narrative, special conditions, units, terrain and heroes are all there is for my immersion.
    - I want to sit on the margins, having little time for the hobby, where nothing changes much (since I cannot keep track of any changes), and play an odd tournament or a friendly game; not caring about anything else except that I don't have to re-learn the rules, that I can use my current miniatures and not get beaten in a game because there is some new, broken (for me) special rules, item or unit the opponent can field.
    - I want new content all the time, reading new articles, expecting new books, getting involved in forum topics with hundreds of other players, where I'm just a part of a big community and I feel good while in it because numbers provide safety.
    - I want to know that there are 3 books in the making, 3 in the near future, with a clear plan of things to come, so I feel like I'm investing my free time in something worthwhile.
    - and so on...

    So, Joel Elijah; I'll just call you Furion, because I can, since your arrogance level is at all time top3 this forum has seen; #1 being me, #2 being Furion, and #3 being DanT (even though he is a very nice, friendly, eloquent, patient forum poster).
    You claim to be a top notch competitive player, with a extremely strong project and strategic foresight. Well, why would you then give a damn if there are 100 or 10.000 players playing this game in some random country or some random continent? Whether there are 10 or 1.000 staff members of high or low quality writing new rules. Whether this project lives for a few months or a few years.
    If you want your fun now (and by fun I mean ego boost) you can have it. Game is in such a state one can destill such a thing. Will you have enough competitive opponents to give you a run for your money in the years to come? No, you won't. But you have them now, today. Tomorrow- hmh, only if you are willing to play on UB; Pandemic fallout has shut down the world and you will not be able to play at the ETC, WTC or such tournaments for a while. UB will be popular for a while still, but eventually current hype will die down (since most of us need the whole deal; armies facing off and not a few screen pictures).

    So, what did you expect forum posters would tell you about this project, it's current state and it's future, that you didn't already know? What did you want to hear, since I'm sure you already knew what the answers would be...
  • Nemeroth wrote:

    @Mr.Gobbo I missed that bit. That is breathtaking ignorance and arrogance.
    I would go with Hanlon's Razor. Helps me let go of frustrations and anger. :orclaugh:

    Nemeroth wrote:

    Lockdown put me back on anti-depressants and beta blockers, for many of the reasons you gave, attitudes like this make me sick. I would have achieved far more Work for the BGT if COVID had not happened.
    I'm sorry to hear that! I hope you get more help than just meds - a combination of medication and therapy seems to be the golden standard these days.

    I wish you a full recovery!

    Execution Board

    HR Consultant

    Mr. Gobbo's Tricksy Gits :GobboFreaky:
  • Alright - I think think this thread is close to have run its course.

    Let's all cut down on the "personal attacks" (I'm guilty of that myself!)

    We're all getting reported to the moderators, I tell you!

    Let's attack the arguments, and not the person behind them, even though the alternative *IS* rather tempting.

    That way, I won't have to deal with staff members getting reported for breaking house rules and communicating in disrespect to the users on our forums (the dark side of HR work).

    PLZ HALP ME!

    Execution Board

    HR Consultant

    Mr. Gobbo's Tricksy Gits :GobboFreaky:
  • Marcos24 wrote:



    @Grouchy Badger well well well, it’s good to see you here again and welcome you back, but only to say “I thought you said you’d never be back”
    Ive been playing legion for the past months. I decided to poke my head in after playing a game last week. I am not surprised at what I see.
    I am going to offend you. You are not going to like it. You will survive.

    Chaotic Neutral
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4uqqEMaAbH4fZ5debcBiWA

    Model Reviews with Twice the Brain Injuries!
  • I can only leave a small reply from the confined view of the library team.

    Work is enjoyable and we are progressing to a new baseline with way more companies included in libraries for miniatures of interest than ever before. Most important of all: community acceptance has grown and keeps growing. People enjoy talking miniatures, so life is great.

    Beyond that I am getting a peak behind the scenes taking part in the VS LAB team and I must say that I am very much impressed with the work people do. And it's fun to be along for the ride.

    The pandemic is a serious bugger, for me it does not mean more time for sure.
  • IntrigueAtCourt wrote:

    Many people talking about "finishing" the game, but I always assumed that when the entire list of army books is completed we'll simply go back to the start and continue changing/updating books to keep the game fresh.
    At that point I was planning to sell everything to Disney. In the future they will own everything anyway.
  • Did you missed the part i couldn't care less about your opinion about myself ?
    I'll be honest , at first glance those kindergarten attacks of yours left me astounded : does that board evolved backward into some tumblr wasteland where anyone drifting away from the official way of thinking is being harassed by a pack of angry chihuahuas ? That's just sad ... but by all means keep going , keep showing the full extent of your childish personas . From now on anytime someone will google << T9A project status >> they'll get there and witness your true nature . You are doing a great publicity for this project indeed .

    wtf , he said bad things about how my favorite game is being managed , must bite , very angery , grrr

    Are you for real ?
    That explain quite nicely how you are oblivious of the fact that tabletop games are not played solely by eternal manboys , socially akward introverts and both financially & morally bankrupt losers . Frankly it made me kinda laugh ( in a bad way ) that you think i see myself at some kind of golden boy : i have a very simple and boring life overall , but yeah indeed i am very successful in my work ( and i work along people that i do consider way better than me in many regards , or play in a club with some guys who have a way better social status than me ) . Being confident ( knowing your strengths ) is not the same thing as being arrogant ( thinking you are successful when you factually are not , like you ) . But yeah , it seems like it's an easy confusion to make for insecure little mens like yourselves .

    Anyway , by all means , continue your childish attempts at figuring who you think i am in the hopes of making me vulnerable to your pathetic strawmans , you may grab some likes from the rest of your echo chamber , such achievement , much woah
    :bestwishes:




    And here it is : the smartest person in the room !
    I am a little relieved to see there is still some dudes like you on the board , good luck , i hope you turns the things around here .


    Pinktaco wrote:

    @Hebus

    Until the OP reveals his old username I have no reason to believe he had any part of the management staff :)

    Nemeroth wrote:

    Pinktaco wrote:

    @Hebus

    Until the OP reveals his old username I have no reason to believe he had any part of the management staff :)
    That’s why I asked. I don’t believe for one second this “person” is what they claim to be.

    Oh yeah i do remember the standards to join the team are so high : you have to pass a lot of tests , showcase your collection of miniatures , present a CV with your tournament's statistics , buy a << F.U.C.K. G.W. >> sticker , and so on ... it is such an achievement indeed ...









    Oh wait .

    That is not what i do remember about how the recruitment was being conducted ... hmmm ...

    Ah yeah , you send a PM and you are in .

    Very high standards :T9A:


    Mr.Gobbo wrote:


    Joel Elijah wrote:

    We all are well aware of the COVID situation . When i came back here i though the lockdown would increase the work hours of the team but for some reason it seems the opposite happened ( that is not my opinion but what @Calisson told in the announcements linked in the second post ) . That the progression slowed down during the lockdown does not make sense to me .
    This one stood out to me.
    OF COURSE the work slowed down.

    People getting "more free time" = / = people doing more volunteer work.

    Here are some likely scenarios for our users and staff members:

    - less opportunities to play "private" games (because of the lockdown)
    - fewer tournaments
    - little to no socialising in clubs

    Just those 3 points alone would have the potential to lead to a bit of "out of sight, out of mind", and could also decrease desire to paint, and do other hobby stuff.

    Why?

    Well, here are some additional reasons (off the top of my head, not a comprehensive list):

    - unstable work conditions (layoffs, etc.)

    - new work conditions (working from home, where applicable)

    - online fatigue

    - anxiety about possibly being exposed to COVID-19 at work (grocery stores, etc.)

    - changed routines due to COVID-19

    - parents with younger children would be hard pressed, because they had to work from home AND take care of their children at the same time

    - financial instability (getting fired/comissions or bonus-based income)

    - general sense of fear/uncertainty (exacerbated by media coverage and/or politicians)

    - extraverted individuals not being able to socialise and "recharge their batteries"

    - worse/less personal relationships with colleagues due to being physically apart

    - worse work-life balance, because work could technically be done 24/7, and conscientious people might have a problem "over-working" easily. Looking at quite a few staff members here!

    - friends & family being hit by COVID-19 (perhaps fatally)

    - being a chronically overworked health care worker

    - worse personal relationships, increased amount of divorces/breakups

    Would any of the reasons above lead to potential stress, depression or increased severity in anxiety symptoms?

    My educated guess would be: "hmmm... YES!"

    It is therefore my personal opinion that a volunteer organisation might expect to be hit by staff members losing energy, focus and perhaps a bit of motivation, EVEN though some of them technically had more time on their hands.

    There are certainly also people who have benefitted from working from home, and some people have enjoyed an "extra long holiday". But to my knowledge, that is far from the norm.

    TL;DR - new stressors, decreased energy levels, increased depression/stress/anxiety, less volunteer work = decrease in productivity.


    That is a long list you got here : unstable work , new work conditions , online fatigue , anxiety , changed routines , being hard pressed , financial instability , fear , uncertainty , not being able to socialise , getting a worse relationship , ... oh let's skip the rest ... there is no end of it ...


    Being locked inside your first world home for few weeks / months is such a traumatic experience indeed , much woah , such hard life .
    Go inside a homeless shelter or spare the money for a third world trip . It would educate you about what real hardship is and would have costed less than that useless bachelor you took . Then you will start feeling ashamed of yourselves when you come with those pathetic excuses . Loser mentality at his best .


    Razon wrote:

    I would like to state that Joel Elijah has a very good point. What is the future for this project? The big picture. He is wondering is it possible for the project to survive in a healthy, steady environment with solid, constructive foundations for years to come?
    No, that is not possible, anyone who thinks so is very naive.

    It all depends, exclusivley, who is asking since there are a few, equally correct, answers for it. The thing is, it all comes down to what do (people asking this question) want. You want from the project to support your view of the hobby, you want to know should you continue to play this game if the thing you want is:
    - I want to play in tournaments with interesting, balanced armies and be able to win with a random faction.
    - I want to play friendly games where campaign narrative, special conditions, units, terrain and heroes are all there is for my immersion.
    - I want to sit on the margins, having little time for the hobby, where nothing changes much (since I cannot keep track of any changes), and play an odd tournament or a friendly game; not caring about anything else except that I don't have to re-learn the rules, that I can use my current miniatures and not get beaten in a game because there is some new, broken (for me) special rules, item or unit the opponent can field.
    - I want new content all the time, reading new articles, expecting new books, getting involved in forum topics with hundreds of other players, where I'm just a part of a big community and I feel good while in it because numbers provide safety.
    - I want to know that there are 3 books in the making, 3 in the near future, with a clear plan of things to come, so I feel like I'm investing my free time in something worthwhile.
    - and so on...

    So, Joel Elijah; I'll just call you Furion, because I can, since your arrogance level is at all time top3 this forum has seen; #1 being me, #2 being Furion, and #3 being DanT (even though he is a very nice, friendly, eloquent, patient forum poster).
    You claim to be a top notch competitive player, with a extremely strong project and strategic foresight. Well, why would you then give a damn if there are 100 or 10.000 players playing this game in some random country or some random continent? Whether there are 10 or 1.000 staff members of high or low quality writing new rules. Whether this project lives for a few months or a few years.
    If you want your fun now (and by fun I mean ego boost) you can have it. Game is in such a state one can destill such a thing. Will you have enough competitive opponents to give you a run for your money in the years to come? No, you won't. But you have them now, today. Tomorrow- hmh, only if you are willing to play on UB; Pandemic fallout has shut down the world and you will not be able to play at the ETC, WTC or such tournaments for a while. UB will be popular for a while still, but eventually current hype will die down (since most of us need the whole deal; armies facing off and not a few screen pictures).

    So, what did you expect forum posters would tell you about this project, it's current state and it's future, that you didn't already know? What did you want to hear, since I'm sure you already knew what the answers would be...


    The first part of your post looks very confused , at first i though it was due to some translation issue , but the second part confirmed otherwise ... so you really think i am on the level of Furion ? Ah ah ah ah . Oh boy . As someone who interacted quite a lot with the polish community i find that statement hilarious , and the next one drop me dead : where did i claimed to be << a top notch competitive player >> ??? I did said i am currently playing in a very competitive gaming community but i do not fall at all in that category myself : i am a fluff guy and mostly play to have a good time with interesting people ; regardless of that i am looking to a game system that would become popular to as many people as possible in my club ( because i am not looking to play every two months ) . So yeah , usually i would not bother explaining myself to judgemental kiddos but you were so far of the truth i could not stop me from stepping in on that :rolleyes:


    Mr.Gobbo wrote:


    Let's all cut down on the "personal attacks" (I'm guilty of that myself!)


    Oh , so after acting like an angry mob of butt hurts little boys , now you are going for the benevolent we are better than this act ?


    That is just pathetic and directly reminds me of one of the numerous good old sh1t shows that happened years ago : team members and especially red tags acting like pompous douch3b4gs to the unhappy little men ( hey , psst : that coloured tag mean jack sh1t , that is why so many former staff members do not want that Alumni tag , do not want to keep being associated with the dozens of incompetent pr1cks that roam the internal subforums like they are at a Mensa convention ) ... remember the magic system revamping ? Whole pages being moderated , posts and even whole threads being deported in the main internal forum and then deeper locations ( GW bad , T9A good , criticism bad ) . You showed your true colours multiple times already and did not wasted that modest bait i offered to you here .



    I am going to finish with this very simple fact : in this current era , would Games Workshop employees conduct themselves with their community the same way you did so many times with yours in the last 5 years , GW would goes under very quickly .
    Would that happened : it would be deserved ( and you would be celebrating it ) .

    So yeah , you are completely full of sh1t.