Announcement KoE LAB guidelines!

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  • KoE LAB guidelines!

    Hello Lords and Ladies of Equitaine!

    I arrive with fantastic news! The RT and Background team have delivered the design guidelines for our fair Equitaine, and I think you’ll be as excited about them as the entire ACS team was!

    We encourage all of you to post your thoughts regarding the guidelines in this thread, the things you love and the things you don’t like as well, just be sure to keep it respectful. I’ll also be posting a second thread for wish-listing, ideas for rules and mechanics, etc., so don’t post those here. The RT would love real feedback about your thoughts in this thread, so after you finish reading please post!

    And now, without further delay...

    Kingdom of Equitaine Army Book Design Guideline


    Army Composition
    The kingdom of equitaine army is the most calvary centred army in the game. Cavalry is the backbone of the army and it is rare to see an Equitaine army without Cavalry units. The army has access to a wide variety of cavalry units. Knights should be combat oriented and damage focused.


    Majority of a standard KoE army consists of standard Cavalry in large units (large for the type of unit) with a mix of Infantry, Large Cavalry and some Beast units to support this cavalry. The knight section of the army is one of best when on the Charge.


    The army makes most of its points in close combat. This army has little focus on technology and more on superstition and magic. Unit Champions can be more than just standard Champions but not true leaders. If there is Monstrous Cavalry it should be about the knight on top, and not the monster that is being ridden.


    The army book entries can be divided into 5 main sub-factions:
    • Knights are the main focus of the army and should consist roughly 45% of the army book. Highly specialized and also best in the game in what they can do. They should range from basic cavalry to flying cavalry to the most elite ones.
    • Ordos are war machines and support units with buff synergies, roughly 30% of the army book.
    • Milites are peasants and archer units, roughly 20% of army book.
    • Fey are mystical elements and Sainted, not many units but they are customizable to represent various Supernals. Roughly 15% of the army book.
    • Irregulars are outlaws, mercenaries, adventurers - questing knights, roughly 15% of the army book.


    Play styles
    The primary play styles for KoE should be
    • Cavalry list. Fast combat army built around many cavalry units (MSU, MMU, FLU) that are strong on charge. This army wins through combined charges.
    • Combined arms. Mix of cavalry and infantry. Cavalry as the main damage dealers, and infantry as support (chaff, shooting, tarpits, anvils). This army wins though using these different types of units together.
    • Flying Circus. Similar to cavalry list. Less punch in combat on average than a pure cavalry list, but instead significantly better lateral movement. This army wins through picking its fights.


    The following styles should be unavailable to KoE:
    • Defensive shooting/ranged damage oriented list. Armies built around shooting as main damage dealers and where knights are used for zoning to keep the shooting units safe should be discouraged or suboptimal. Restrict the total amount of shooting the army can get (no more than 20% of the points of an KoE army list may use ranged attacks)
    • Avoidance. Full on avoidance armies should not be possible and is a play style Knights do not do. Note that this means flying circus builds need to have significant parts of the army with limited lateral movement, and that they need to score most of their points in combat.
    • MSU infantry
    • Fey themed armies. The Fey part of the army can never become the main focus and should not be available in Core.


    Racial Design Notes
    Humans
    Equitaine are humans with standard human stats. Their army consists of low quality peasants to the strongest humans known to mankind.


    Knights should be better than the average human, but this should be represented by a combination of special rules, equipment and slightly better stats (i.e. not just high physical stats).


    Milites lack proper combat training. This should be represented by noticeably worse stats, equipment, and/or rules. These should not be on the same level as other humans (e.g. lower off, def, dis). Any changes to basic peasant units should be to the down side when it comes to their eliteness.


    Ordos and Irregulars fall between the milites and knights in terms of stats.


    Sainted individuals can reach superhuman stats and abilities (but still below Chosen lord when it comes to combat). Should be very rare, mainly for characters.


    Supernals
    Supernals in Equitaine range from fragile small ones like pixies to large monstrous ones.
    There is also a selection of Supernal mounts that are accessible to selected Characters and Feys. The supernal fraction has similar traits as the supernals in the DL book.


    Mounts
    KoE knights use stronger breeds of horses than most other armies. These horses are big, strong and fast. KoE also uses other mounts (e.g. pegasus, hippogriphs). Non-mounted creatures are not used (KoE slay or ride monsters, they don’t ally with them). Mounted knights should always be the main focus of a combined model. The mount is secondary, its main purpose is to bear the knight.
    KoE have wide selection of Character Mounts. Explore Fey mounts. Avoid gigantic Mounts.


    Equipment
    An Equitaine Knight common weapon is his Lance while all Knights can afford heavy armor and barding. Plate armour is rare. Not available to troops (anything outside character section). Could be available to characters, but keep total eliteness of characters in mind (stronger defence should lead to weaker offensive, mobility, leadership etc). The book may explore one or two unique knight-specific weapons for specialized knights.


    Peasants are known to be proficient with long bows and crossbow, but lack any serious combat training and equipment compared (should include no or limited access to banner enchantment).


    Movement
    Movement speed of Equitaine’s Cavalry is average in game wide terms. Stronger breeds of horses allow KoE cavalry to be faster than that known to the Empire of Sonnstahl, especially on the charge. Lateral movement is generally limited for cavalry.


    Movement for the human infantry is generally poor. Average humans stats (which includes being clearly slower than the average elf) and few to no tools to increase this meaningfully. Infantry is not meant to keep up with knights.


    Special Deployment
    KoE have some minor tricks in special deployment consisting mostly of Vanguard and Scouts where fitting and appropriate for the unit type. Knights do not participate in these cheap tricks and the army should be average when it comes to Special Deployment.


    Some Fey can have unique special deployment connected to the land and special types of terrain.


    Leadership
    Overall leadership is average in all departments, range distance and values. Knights are much more disciplined than the Milites, while Ordos are somewhere in between. Specialized units (such as irregular, fey, free knights) should be able to play wider than EoS (not tied to Discipline bubble), roughly on elven level. Milites should be to operate within the discipline bubble (general/feudal).


    Feudalism should be represented through discipline, where units operating under the feudal structure gain discipline bonuses. For example: Milites rely heavily on inspiration from above (for example feudal knights or ordo) for their discipline. Lone milities are cowards and will quickly leave the battlefield when things don’t go their way.


    Fey as supernals follow typical supernal discipline rules, high discipline and independent. They work well on their own and do not require, nor care about, feudal leadership. They may be tied to Damsel.


    Characters
    Heroism is a strong theme in the KOE book. This should translate to both strong and numerous character options, these do not necessarily come from character allowance*. Characters are strong fighters with often very specialized fighting styles (eg. strong charges and worthless outside charge, monster killer but bad against hordes, and so on). Stat wide fight characters are similar to EoS counterparts, but rules wise and customization KOE have a clear edge.


    *Character-like model that are outside the character section may have Character-like stats and base sizes, but should not have character-like customization (no special items, loads of equipment options, multiple mount options etc). A few options can be okay though. Non-characters should not be able to join units and should not be able to be general or BSB. Such solo model should be seen as a “small monster”.


    Magic
    The magic in KOE is focused on defence and helping allies (buffing). It is not focused on damage dealing or debuffing. KOE does not have especially powerful spell casters.


    Ordos are known by their healing capabilities too. Healing outside Druidism must be heavily restricted, similar to how Druidism Attribute is. KoE healing overall should very clearly be below the capabilities of undead armies (restricted to 1HP/turn, only to certain units types such as characters, and/or only recovering HP never raising).


    Orisons
    Orisons are cantrips, simple spells, more simple than bound spells so design with that in mind. Their effect should also be comparably minor (look at Path Attributes for power level) and try to differentiate it as much as possible against EoS Blessings and Orders. Explore options to not require a successful cast like spells/bound spells.


    Path access
    Divination, Druidism, Shamanism.
    The Hereditary spell should be about buffing. KoE magic is about buffing, not debuffing or damage.
    Quin units/characters have up to Adept level access to Witchcraft (and no other paths).


    Shooting
    The army has access to low strength and high strength (war machines) shooting. Shooting in this army is generally static and long ranged. No black powder. Shooting eliteness should not be above EoS counterparts (excluding orders and artificers).


    Since armies built around shooting should not be possible in this book, the total amount of shooting needs to be kept low, for example by placing all shooting entries in the same category with a low limit and still allow for fielding two Trebuchets to not invalidate model collections. For this reason, the shooting part of the army should not be expanded upon meaningfully from the slim book.



    Close Combat
    The core of a standard army consists of knights which are fairly all-round, as in decent charges and decent grinding abilities (not necessarily as the only core). Compared to slim book realm knights, decrease power of the charge and increase grinding capabilities of the basic core knights (but still clearly better on the charge than when grinding). These knights should be promoted to be fielded in large units, and lance formation (see below) should be a big part of this.


    In addition, the book contains several Knight units that are highly specialized at one particular aspect (e.g. grinding, powerful charge, long charge, mobility, bodyguard). For such knights smaller units sizes would be preferable. The most devastating charge should be powerful enough to be a real threat, but not powerful enough to completely counteract normal weaknesses of knight units (such as large tarpits bogging down knights). Do not let KoE become a simplistic “point and click” army with very long knight charges that destroy everything when charging.


    On an army wide scale, the cavalry army should be top3 in the game at dealing damage on charge. The army should also be below average in the grind.


    Milities close combat abilities are mediocre. They are not on the battlefield as damage dealers. Their main purpose is as tarpits, chaff, counter charging, or otherwise helping knights get into favourable combats or avoid unfavourable combat.


    Defensive Capabilities
    Knight's main defensive tool is his armor and his faith. Ordos is the same just without the armour while Militia relies on neither but on big numbers. While the army has access to Arm5 in Core, there should be no units with Arm6. Characters have easy access to Arm6 and Wizards may have Light armour.


    Faith is represented in Special Saves and characters have easy access to them.


    Synergies
    Knights and Infantry should be able to support each other, this means mainly with sharing Discipline and helping breaking units. Ordos units are primarily supporting the cavalry with Orisons.


    Direct synergies outside discipline and Orisons, such as “buff/debuff wagons” or characters giving abilities to units they join, is a very small part of this army. It’s a major point of differentiation between KoE and EoS, where EoS relies on synergies and KoE are stronger by themselves, especially their characters.


    Main themes
    There should be an army wide mechanic that uses prayer and faith to support the army. Think beyond just a 5+ Aegis, and look at stuff like leadership, movement and other special rules. KoE land is steeped in magic and this should be represented in the rules (for example through Fey, blessings, orison, hereditary, saints).


    Army list consisting mainly of Peasant and levies are possible, but not in the forefront and sub optimal. Consider exploring this option for a supplement.


    Lance Formation
    Knights in this army (not necessarily all knights) may have special unique formation, similar to as in the current slim book. This formation should:
    • Add possibilities for knights to be fielded in differently profiled formations
    • Make armies built around knights more viable in all sizes
    • Enable several knights to combo charge better (for example through narrow frontage)


    Fey and the connection to the land
    Fey are supernals. They create a piece of the army that is separated from the mundane humans. They follow their own lords/damsel and have their own agenda. They should be a mysterious part of the army that operates in very different ways from the rest. Special deployment, special discipline, etc. Fey units have strong connection to the nature and magical land of Equitane.


    Knightly principes
    Knight principles is an important theme of the knights in the army (Excellence, Forbearance, Generosity, Justice, Valour, Honour, Faith). Honourable fights, courage, and potentially suffering negative consequences if breaking the principles. This could potentially be used as character upgrades (Virtues) or as an army wide model rule.
  • Ludaman wrote:

    The army book entries can be divided into 5 main sub-factions:


    Knights are the main focus of the army and should consist roughly 45% of the army book. Highly specialized and also best in the game in what they can do. They should range from basic cavalry to flying cavalry to the most elite ones.

    Ordos are war machines and support units with buff synergies, roughly 30% of the army book.

    Milites are peasants and archer units, roughly 20% of army book.

    Fey are mystical elements and Sainted, not many units but they are customizable to represent various Supernals. Roughly 15% of the army book.

    Irregulars are outlaws, mercenaries, adventurers - questing knights, roughly 15% of the army book.

    45% + 30% + 20% + 15% + 15% = 125%

    This may be worded wierdly. Is this explained by a unit being part of more than one category, like Questing Knights counting towards Knights (45%) and Irregulars (15%)?


    Ludaman wrote:

    Supernals
    Supernals in Equitaine range from fragile small ones like pixies to large monstrous ones.
    There is also a selection of Supernal mounts that are accessible to selected Characters and Feys. The supernal fraction has similar traits as the supernals in the DL book.

    That's fine. Can't really say much about it without seeing the unit, but I guess the Green Knight is among those supernals.

    Ludaman wrote:

    Movement
    Movement speed of Equitaine’s Cavalry is average in game wide terms. Stronger breeds of horses allow KoE cavalry to be faster than that known to the Empire of Sonnstahl, especially on the charge. Lateral movement is generally limited for cavalry.
    I like this idea. The horses would have a lower march rate than advance rate basically, right? Say Adv 8 and March 12 to 14. So avoidance is out of the way while our charge dependant units can still get a charge.

    Ludaman wrote:

    Movement for the human infantry is generally poor. Average humans stats (which includes being clearly slower than the average elf) and few to no tools to increase this meaningfully. Infantry is not meant to keep up with knights.

    Hmm, if infantry is not meant to keep up with knights (which is understandable), I wonder how the support aspect is implemented.


    Ludaman wrote:

    Magic
    The magic in KOE is focused on defence and helping allies (buffing). It is not focused on damage dealing or debuffing. KOE does not have especially powerful spell casters.

    I agree and I'm glad this stays that way.

    Ludaman wrote:

    Ordos are known by their healing capabilities too. Healing outside Druidism must be heavily restricted, similar to how Druidism Attribute is. KoE healing overall should very clearly be below the capabilities of undead armies (restricted to 1HP/turn, only to certain units types such as characters, and/or only recovering HP never raising).

    Have to see how this works out. I don't have a good grasp of what type of unit Ordos are supposed to be. Not raising would mean we would have to have more units with more than 1 hp per model, or it would be restricted to characters anyway.

    But if they can heal characters, the green knight and a wounded Grail Knight, it would already be worth it. While I agree that characters shouldn't be raised, and the proposed non-characters/special champions should stay dead too, getting a fallen knight back doesn't seem too bad in my opinion. Otherwise, they may simply lack the targets to do the healing.

    Ludaman wrote:

    Knights and Infantry should be able to support each other, this means mainly with sharing Discipline and helping breaking units.

    The Discipline part we have already in the current version. I'm looking forward to see how they will be able to help breaking units, because that, they are definately lacking. Since they are meant to be and stay mediocre, let's see what is done with them.

    Ludaman wrote:

    There should be an army wide mechanic that uses prayer and faith to support the army. Think beyond just a 5+ Aegis, and look at stuff like leadership, movement and other special rules. KoE land is steeped in magic and this should be represented in the rules (for example through Fey, blessings, orison, hereditary, saints).

    I loved some of the ideas in echoCTRL's book for the blessing. If it is along those lines, I will be a happy.

    Ludaman wrote:

    Knights in this army (not necessarily all knights) may have special unique formation, similar to as in the current slim book. This formation should:


    Add possibilities for knights to be fielded in differently profiled formations

    Make armies built around knights more viable in all sizes

    Enable several knights to combo charge better (for example through narrow frontage)

    I don't want much from the lance formation. It just has to be three models wide and has to be at least slightly better than a normal formation (or better at a specific thing). That's all. It adds flavor to the army in my opinion and it shouldn't be worse than fielding the unit normally.

    What I don't want it to be is a point increase even to people that do not use it for whatever reason. I hope the formation is bought as an option, or at least acts only as a price increase for the units that (have to) use it. Without knowing the rules yet, i will almost definately play the knights 3 wide and just adapt my playstyle with the rules that will be bestowed upon it.


    Ludaman wrote:

    They may be tied to Damsel.

    Ludaman wrote:

    They follow their own lords/damsel
    I hope this is not a strict rule. I really dislike that a unit (like the green knight) can only be fielded with a damsel. I have nothing against the damsel if it has synergies with fey/supernal units, but they should not wholly depend on it. Being able to prevent the green knight or other units from being fielded, by killing a damsel (with the added possibility, that a damsel can kill herself with a botched roll in the magic phase) seems to much of a restriction to me.

    I also hope many restrictions of the past are gone. We do not have that many units to begin with, so restrictions in fielding them in the army list is not my cup of tea.


    Overall, I like the guidelines.

    Cheers
    Stone: "Nerf Paper, it is overpowered. Scissors are well balanced."

    :KoE: :VC: :WDG_bw:
  • Sir_Sully wrote:

    Some interesting trade offs in there - E.g. charge damage down a bit but grind up a bit.
    lol I think it’s the opposite or the same. Though some variance would be nice


    “On an army wide scale, the cavalry army should be top3 in the game at dealing damage on charge. The army should also be below average in the grind“
  • Knights should be combat oriented and damage focused.
    The army should also be below average in the grind.
    So we should expect an enormous difference from what we have now ? Because right now we have knights hitting a lot of things on 4+ but having a 2+/5++ and easy access to ranks thanks to lance formations to mantain steadfast, it happened to me more than once to bonuce and lose of combat res after chargin a big units of knights of the realms because i couldn't manage to do a single wound even with elitè troops.
    Monstrous Cavalry it should be about the knight on top, and not the monster that is being ridden.
    Mmh, like pegasus knights ? :P Because if i ever heard about something defined by the mount and not by the riders that's pegasus knights, the name couldn't be more self evident :D
    Joking obviously but that's does really sound odd
    Quin units/characters have up to Adept level access to Witchcraft (and no other paths).
    Soo the army focused on charge gets raven wings... an interesting choice, weren't the supernal strongly related to divination ? Should this raise my hopes for the Sylvan Elves getting Witchcraft ? (i know that no one has the answer, but let a man dream, ok ?)
  • I like it.
    Love the limited access to witchcraft. It’s a solid fit for the army, and fits with a bit darker KoE style.

    However, I think the 15% cap on fey units is way too harsh. I agree with all the other category bands. 20-30% for fey units would be more to my liking. And of course not available in core.

    And on another note, the flying circus play style, I hope the LAB will make this more viable seeing as it isn’t really feasible now.
    'Ammertime member :thumbup: - Podcast like a MoFo!
  • Some thoughts from me:

    Overall I think the direction is a good one. It saves enough of the Arthurian Identity while also building on the unique IP of T9A.

    *Controversial opinion warning*

    The “Lance formation” is going to overcomplicate the design and create rules bloat. If the goal is to become some of the hardest hitting knights with a slightly below average grind ability, we’re going to struggle to change anything with the easy access to 3+ ranks that the current 3-wide Lance gives.

    Do we want a half page of rules written just to deny us our rank bonus and give us bonuses to hit, or would we rather just take 5x2 units that can actually hit as hard as cavalry units in other armies.

    Basically is the unique look of the current Lance worth handicapping our units by either A. Limiting their damage potential, or B. By creating a strange set of rules to limit their rank bonus/steadfast breaking ability?

    I would say it isn’t, but again, I know my opinion is unpopular, I know how much many KoE players believe their “unique” tube-o-knights is integral to the look and feel of the army, but I just think the designers would have an easier time and the players will have more fun if the Lance isn’t a 3-wide formation.

    *end of controversial opinion*

    other than the Lance, I’m excited about the legendary status of grail knights, the possibility for witchcraft in peasant lists, and the option for new and exciting units and mounts!

    I would also say I hope we end up with options (like the DE book) for base sizes on monstrous units and characters. I feel like the 40x40 and 50x50 sizes of Pegasus and Hippogryphs limits us a lot as far as models go (and don’t get me started about having to put Pegasus on metal rods to get them to rank up, they tip over easier than a 3-year old on roller skates for the first time)
  • Ludaman wrote:

    Do we want a half page of rules written just to deny us our rank bonus and give us bonuses to hit, or would we rather just take 5x2 units that can actually hit as hard as cavalry units in other armies.
    That's hyperbole.

    Source Code

    1. Lance Formation:
    2. Units in lance formation form up three models wide and never get any ranks.
    That hardly was half a page, was it? After this, get to the bonus it gives and there you go.
    I get that you don't like the 3 wide formation, but don't pretend it would be difficult to write rules for it because it would be too bloated.

    I am almost willing to bet that we will be stuck with as near to normal human stats for most knights as possible, and there will be moaning and hating if we get even slightly better. We have to basically fight tooth and nail to justify grail knights with the infusion of divine power, while the new DE cavalry with 2 attacks doesn't need such an explaination whatsoever for some reason.

    If you think 5x2 formation will get you there, I think you are mistaken.
    Stone: "Nerf Paper, it is overpowered. Scissors are well balanced."

    :KoE: :VC: :WDG_bw:
  • Hi, although i'm not very active on the forum, since feedback is wanted, I thought I'd give my two cents.
    Overall, I really like these guidelines, I think the core aspects of our gameplay are well represented, and some new interesting options seem to be on the horizon.

    Ludaman wrote:

    Highly specialized and also best in the game in what they can do.
    I think this is really important, as to me one of the most important things about an army is its role amongst the different factions in the game. In my opinion, we should have the most varied and specialized units of knights, not the best at everything at the same time. For example, I don't think we should have more than 1-2 units that could best Vampire Knights or Chosen Knights without breaking a sweat.

    Ludaman wrote:

    Plate armour is rare. Not available to troops (anything outside character section).
    Although this is obvious for balance reasons, I find it weird lorewise that knights don't have plate armour, as that is what comes to mind when thinking about knights.

    Ludaman wrote:

    Fey are mystical elements and Sainted, not many units but they are customizable to represent various Supernals.
    I really like being able to customize Supernals, as it allows for more varied looks amongst KoE armies.

    That's it, everything else I just like or don't really have an opinion on.
  • Ludaman wrote:




    Path access
    Divination, Druidism, Shamanism.
    The Hereditary spell should be about buffing. KoE magic is about buffing, not debuffing or damage.
    Quin units/characters have up to Adept level access to Witchcraft (and no other paths).
    For me the possibility to access Witchcraft is so valuable!! Big Kudos to this one!! It just opens so many options!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
    ETC Novi Sad 2021
  • Kreln wrote:

    Looking good... but 3 issues
    - no Forloan/ Foot Knights?
    -Flying Circus as a playstyle? why?
    - Shamanism? I thought that was gonna change
    About Foot Knights (Forlons) I reckon they should be there in some kind of way. Many Forlorn fans around, including myself, and some had spent some cash and effort in these units.

    About Flying circus, is also a fan favourite, and it has been a chosen playstyle that goes way back to the beggining for the project.
    ETC Novi Sad 2021
  • Kreln wrote:

    - no Forloan/ Foot Knights?
    They'll be in there in some form.

    Kreln wrote:

    -Flying Circus as a playstyle? why?
    Tradition. Existing armies are to be maintained, especially unique to the army playstyles.

    Queen of Pants


    To plagiarize Cato the Elder "And further WYSIWYG must be destroyed"

    facebook.com/FirebrandProductions/ patreon.com/caballerominiatures
  • Overall it looks quite good :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

    Ludaman wrote:

    Play styles
    The primary play styles for KoE should be


    Cavalry list. Fast combat army built around many cavalry units (MSU, MMU, FLU) that are strong on charge. This army wins through combined charges.

    Combined arms. Mix of cavalry and infantry. Cavalry as the main damage dealers, and infantry as support (chaff, shooting, tarpits, anvils). This army wins though using these different types of units together.

    Flying Circus. Similar to cavalry list. Less punch in combat on average than a pure cavalry list, but instead significantly better lateral movement. This army wins through picking its fights.

    Ludaman wrote:

    Avoidance. Full on avoidance armies should not be possible and is a play style Knights do not do. Note that this means flying circus builds need to have significant parts of the army with limited lateral movement, and that they need to score most of their points in combat.
    The current book can already make lists that are really good at evading bad matchups, and if the "flying circus" playstyle boosts this even further, it should be trivial to make evasion lists.

    How can this be effectively implemented, when the LAB army has access to a full cavalry lists, cowboys, cowboys that don't come from the character section, and more focus on flying models?

    Also, is there a way to prevent the combination of Flying circus and Full Cav elements to create an emergent list that is best than both?
    Undesired emergent playstyles are one of the worst results for a LAB. Just ask ID. :p

    Ludaman wrote:

    Sainted individuals can reach superhuman stats and abilities (but still below Chosen lord when it comes to combat). Should be very rare, mainly for characters.

    Ludaman wrote:

    Plate armour is rare. Not available to troops (anything outside character section). Could be available to characters

    Ludaman wrote:

    *Character-like model that are outside the character section may have Character-like stats and base sizes, but should not have character-like customization (no special items, loads of equipment options, multiple mount options etc). A few options can be okay though. Non-characters should not be able to join units and should not be able to be general or BSB. Such solo model should be seen as a “small monster”.

    These previous section seem to indicate that cowboys will be the bread and butter of KoE in the LAB, but there is no official statement in this regard.

    I am surprised this has not been mentioned.
    Are cowboys supposed to be a common element in the KoE lists?
    Are characters supposed to mostly be used in units? Is 2-3 cowboys acceptable? What about 5-6 of them on a list?

    Ludaman wrote:

    The most devastating charge should be powerful enough to be a real threat, but not powerful enough to completely counteract normal weaknesses of knight units (such as large tarpits bogging down knights).
    Are tarpit units an effective weakness of knights?
    From what I have seen, tarpits are not a good counter to cavalry, since cavalry can just march away and focus on another element.



    Finally, I am surprised there is no mention of chaff.
    With an even bigger focus on the charge, this seems like an important topic that should be included in the guidelines.
    How good KoE chaff should be, and how important for an army can make a big impact on how the army plays.


    Ludaman wrote:

    Movement speed of Equitaine’s Cavalry is average in game wide terms. Stronger breeds of horses allow KoE cavalry to be faster than that known to the Empire of Sonnstahl, especially on the charge. Lateral movement is generally limited for cavalry.

    McBaine wrote:

    I like this idea. The horses would have a lower march rate than advance rate basically, right? Say Adv 8 and March 12 to 14. So avoidance is out of the way while our charge dependant units can still get a charge.
    EoS knights are 7/14, so faster is at minimum 8/16. And since the KoE knights are especially faster on the charge, 9/16 is more likely.
    Limited lateral movement typically means no light troop option.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Folomo ().