Pinned The 2021 WDG Discussion Thread

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  • Ausschliessi wrote:

    Just ordered my first set of minis after a long abstinence from wargaming. Just a couple of warriors. And if I paint them all I will allow myself to buy some more models :) in the meantime, here's to creating dozens of armylists w/o ever playing a match :D
    Have you seen This thread?

    You can share your progress there and we have a separate section for 2021 painting league too. :)
  • Happy Aspid wrote:

    Right now I am finishing few more barbs, few more chosen, runic anvil and assembling custom Throne of Overwhelming Splendour. Too much stuff at the same time. Was a mistake.
    It's not that bad as it seems, I have the following (from memory, might have missed something) at various stages of assembly/painting: 6 CK, 15 WK, 10 chosen, 10 horse barbs, barb chief on shadow chaser, shrine, horse mage, dragon, EH. Not to mention the tons of boxes/sprues waiting for their turn...
    In hindsight, it might have been better to do those one at a time, thus having at least something finished by now, but well... The new year's resolution is to focus on the knights until they're fully done ")

    I heard that a miniature collector dies when he finishes painting his whole collection - it seems that I have a long life before me :D
  • krzechu wrote:

    Happy Aspid wrote:

    Right now I am finishing few more barbs, few more chosen, runic anvil and assembling custom Throne of Overwhelming Splendour. Too much stuff at the same time. Was a mistake.
    It's not that bad as it seems, I have the following (from memory, might have missed something) at various stages of assembly/painting: 6 CK, 15 WK, 10 chosen, 10 horse barbs, barb chief on shadow chaser, shrine, horse mage, dragon, EH. Not to mention the tons of boxes/sprues waiting for their turn...In hindsight, it might have been better to do those one at a time, thus having at least something finished by now, but well... The new year's resolution is to focus on the knights until they're fully done ")

    I heard that a miniature collector dies when he finishes painting his whole collection - it seems that I have a long life before me :D
    I mentioned only those I am working right now. Who are in the process.
    DH - main
    WODG - secondary
    OK - reborn be my childhood army
    DL - side project
  • Seems like I should try to hold on to my oath to only buy single boxes ; )

    Shukran wrote:

    Ausschliessi wrote:

    Just ordered my first set of minis after a long abstinence from wargaming. Just a couple of warriors. And if I paint them all I will allow myself to buy some more models :) in the meantime, here's to creating dozens of armylists w/o ever playing a match :D
    what kind of warriors?
    Not to directly be branded as a heretic but I ordered a box of Ardboys... I want to have the style 'Orcs of Iron and Hellfire'. I'm in the process of mapping which models could represent what entries and so far it seems very promising!
  • I'm a happy UB player and this year there won't be any TOE so they'll be nerfed before I ask my team to go and find 300 painted barbarians to play. XD

    It's a bit sad since following this style we did 8 lists with only infantry capable to break many usual lists like it's nothing.

    DH, ID, VS, WDG, SE, DE, EoS, O&G can play this style with great success as far as we tested.

    No one likes to play against 250 bearded guys with Res 4+, high armour and great weapons.

    Each army brings something unique, full stability, full vanguard, highest combat efficiency, the "we feel unfair no matter the style VS", ecc.

    At the end I hope they become popular since are really good, easy to play and noob friendly until they get nerfed.

    Points won't do so to nerf this MMU style they'll need to limit all spammable units but this could break some armies in half like EoS core. ;)
  • Feynn wrote:

    Happy new year fellow dark followers.

    Remember well, this is the year where players with 300+ barbarians in the shelves can say: finally! I'll be able to field a competitive list with all my models!!
    What changed about barbarians? Their command got 30p cheaper. If they were uncompetitive before - what makes them competitive now?
    It will only continue before bright minds behind changes to GOLD book decide to limit barbarians to max 80 models per army, since strength in numbers is supposed weakness.
    DH - main
    WODG - secondary
    OK - reborn be my childhood army
    DL - side project
  • Happy Aspid wrote:

    Feynn wrote:

    Happy new year fellow dark followers.

    Remember well, this is the year where players with 300+ barbarians in the shelves can say: finally! I'll be able to field a competitive list with all my models!!
    What changed about barbarians? Their command got 30p cheaper. If they were uncompetitive before - what makes them competitive now?It will only continue before bright minds behind changes to GOLD book decide to limit barbarians to max 80 models per army, since strength in numbers is supposed weakness.
    Nothing changed, they were always viable. It's just that I hate this playstyle and closed it after one game some years ago.

    But many bricks is a style that easily goes out of control as much as a monster smash if each brick hits hard enough and thus become a grinding machine.

    Usually units, warmachines, magic, shooting, everything is done thinking about 2-4 medium blocks plus support or MSU, that and being elite because you need to kill elites.

    Once you break past some number of models usual rules and ways to play crumble into dust and what is usually strong becomes weak.

    In that regard WDG is the only one able to spam Off 4 Str 6 core bricks. This doesn't mean it is the stronger horde style. They suffer on Discipline, specially for fear checks.
    Evocation + rod of battle help with their relative weakness to hit.

    SE can bring 7 hordes, 5 of them with vanguard, fearless, hit on Agi 5 and Adv 6-7" thus bringing even more pressure. Shamanism is gold here too since they hit quite good but may lack number & Str.
    They suffer a bit from unability to flee.

    Dwarves and their evil cousins bring tons of tiny base bearded dudes with Str 5, Res 4 and 4/5+.
    Runes are also great for them, or alchemy if you like the evil flavour.
    You march faster than barbarians and are super duper steadfast with Dis 9 so you can play avoidance and with larger line battles if needed.

    O&G has 2 flavours: either killy killy wacka wacka goblins, all with poison and nice AP coupled with the double crown goblin or the "shadowing the sky with arrows" version where you bring tons and tons of normal orcs.
    Witchcraft finish to make the list abominable with their double "to wound" benefit making it totally broken.

    DE is already intended to be viable playing full infantry, you can break it playing only spears with +1 to hit, +1 to wound, Agi 5-7 and witchcraft.

    Since you are playing usually naked characters just to bring magic and stability legion legate is great for a cheap Dis 10 that doesn't give +400 points if killed, nearly all other armies want a crown of autocracy because general items are great covering army weakness. ;)

    VS is special because he doesn't bring high Str units, this is offset with witchcraft yes, but also because you can play 3 Vermin Guard blocks with up to 3 FiER instances plus line formation (if you still have 2*ranks). That and an easy to hide BSB and cheap Dis 10 on 18" brings one of the most stable and strong list when playing this style.

    Beware, you'll need 350+ rats to paint.

    EoS finish the list trumping VS on the highest Discipline army with 18" Dis 10 on a light troops unit, BSB and magic to boot. Here we also can use divination to use area buffs with 5 dices, what is life without a bit of risk anyway.
    Alchemy works too of course so suit yourself.

    It plays with parent imperial guard + gw hordes plus core supports to help stacking resolution in corners or just chaff or even better, flee and then help the parent unit after that.

    So we have 8 armies (enough for a team tournament).


    Reasons about other armies not being able:

    Undead can't really play this style because it plays many losing matches and steadfast doesn't really help here bleesing free models. That and unability to flee and weak core.
    You need number yes, but also high hitting power.

    Daemons have myrmidons but they are just too costly to play 7+ hordes. They can field 5 if i recall correctly and 7-8 or higher is the sweet number.

    HE: can't punch high enough with core spears, no magic to offset that as witchcraft does and too costly special units. You can field 5 units making it hard to break other armies by grinding them down and 3 of them are swordmasters so you may win against other armies but it's still worse than the 8 armies from before.

    KoE: they lack hitting power or cost enough points to make it worth. You can play around a forlorn unit and they are really good, but you can't do the same when fielding 2? Maybe 3? units without any kind of support but divination. They are too expensive to spam.

    SA: too expensive and low hit power on core units as KoE.

    BH: even with Str 3 on core it could do great with rerolls to hit and shamanism/evocation helping on the wounding department. But longhorn are too expensive and big bases without reroll to panic and break tests as barbarians finish to break the deal.

    OK: with the inherent benefits being large and fast they could do pretty well. But high cost and Discipline problems kill the style. Specially Discipline, the only ones with big base that work are barbarians because inbuilt rerolls.

    And how to play this lists?

    It's really easy: go forward as fast as possible giving high pressure to the opponent because you usually will be able to cover the whole "needed" map.

    The needed map are objetives and bottlenecks the maps provide you.

    This being said the rival can do 2 things:
    - Engaging with you, in that case it's a grinding game. Nearly nothing in the game (even many combo charges) can kill enough models in a horde to avoid being hitted back and you've picked units that hit hard just for this.
    Even the stronger death star will bleed after killing one of your hordes but you still have more and used way less points than him.

    Not only that, many times you'll win against monsters, chariots, normal supports, ecc or just stall and grind them down while staying steadfast.

    It can be dicey but in the end you should have the advantage.

    - Avoid you and try to soften you with magic & shooting.
    In this case as said before not even pyro can control this much models. And to avoid you you'll eventually hunt down warmachines and static shooting.
    Also depending on the magic available you'll be able to hit back, that's why evo and alchemy are good if you don't have witchcraft.

    Some final notes:
    - In the strange case when some super duper combo charge can kill enough models from a unit that you won't be able to pay back enough damage don't be afraid to flee. You'll have double lines nearly 99% of times, but the second horde is 4-5" behind, meaning that after all Dis checks to redirect the charge they have easier to fail and you can still flee again.
    Having 7-8 hordes mean you'll have way more units capable to fight than your opponent and he'll need to focus charges because he won't be able to deal with the strikes back or just getting stuck forever. You're actually outnumbering your opponent in every way, enjoy.

    - If an horde gets too weak by some combats or shooting (like if he manages to cast the 6 of pyro and something else) you can use it to chaff or control charges by fleeing. Also remember that all your units are scoring.

    @Shukran I don't think they'll nerf them. But they can just kill this style by making all offending units like barbarians 0-4. Some armies could still play it but WDG one would be killed for sure.

    Then, 2 days ago I tested it against my CV player and we left in on T4.

    His list was:
    Independent Arcane Vampire in barrow guard with great weapons.
    2 chariots
    2*2 reapers
    Big ghoul unit
    Zombies with alchemy adept

    Objetive breaktrough.

    T1 I marched with company barbs on the flank so he could only charge with reapers and a chariot to try to break the flank or it would be mine and the center was controlled with 4 hordes just standing there waiting to be charged too.

    Winged reapers disappeared but the chariot managed to kill that horde.

    The horde behind started the grind while another one near started to fight with ghouls. Then a flank charge happened (too much hordes to chaff, even for VC) and the game was done.

    Just for fun we tried to see what happened if the barrow guard charged a baiting horde and I lost but stayed steadfast. Next turn I had a flanking and rear hordes charge for a full GG.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Feynn ().