DH Balancing patch final round

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  • fjugin wrote:

    Cam wrote:

    fjugin wrote:

    It was looked at. Iirc we changed a few prices connected to dwarf magic even.
    Fair enough. Suppose that leads to the question of how come 36% usage of DH magic (47/131 lists) didn’t warrant a buff when main magic paths got redesigns for less and other spells had CVs and ranges changed?
    Data available to rules team at the time (November) did not indicate options related to DH magic as majorly underused or underperforming. Except the ones that for decreases of of course (rune of resonance and harnessing).
    Not sure data says that now either. Iirc most DH lists in new years revolution for example includes magic.
    So you want to say that data from the whole 2020 year that shows 64% of tournament lists are without magic means nothing to you, because you're only looking on data from one tourney, where people are trying and playing with new things?

    And btw in NYR tourney, DH is the second-worst army at the moment.
    ...Bloody forest... damn tree-huggers and daisy-eaters... burn 'em all...
  • Firthunands91 wrote:

    LOL. A tournament during beta that won't even be finished when the patch is released, at where DH is getting even worse results than usually, and the lists with magic are averaging 4 pts per game.


    :clapping: or :panic: .


    Btw if magic is an autoinclude in every army beside DH then does it mean that runic magic should be autoinclude in every list too? And if it isn't then DH magic phase need a boost or discount, right?

    The post was edited 2 times, last by Slayer Zabojcow ().

  • fjugin wrote:

    Cam wrote:

    fjugin wrote:

    It was looked at. Iirc we changed a few prices connected to dwarf magic even.
    Fair enough. Suppose that leads to the question of how come 36% usage of DH magic (47/131 lists) didn’t warrant a buff when main magic paths got redesigns for less and other spells had CVs and ranges changed?
    Data available to rules team at the time (November) did not indicate options related to DH magic as majorly underused or underperforming. Except the ones that for decreases of of course (rune of resonance and harnessing).
    Not sure data says that now either. Iirc most DH lists in new years revolution for example includes magic.

    Well then either your data was wrong or it wasnt read properly. Here is the data on DH magic usage:



    Do things have to be taken >1.5% to see a points increase in DH? As only resonance and mastery were given any form of buff.

    Hopefully now you see the data this will be considered on the final patch of the yearly update.

    Also why are you even mentioning NYR? It is people testing beta changes of the yearly update, it does not invalidate a full year of data (you know the data the patch should be based on...). You have tried to buff DH MMU obviously people will test that which will obviously lead to people testing magic. If this tournament is replacing a year of data (!?) @Firthunands91 has already pointed to the performance of the MMU/magic lists above. DH had the average worst result over the big tournaments this year, coming dead last in one - NYR doesn't seem to be bucking the trend.
    Free command groups for standard infantry
  • DH Community did enter and submit lists for the following tourneys:
    - 9th Age fanken Cup
    - LBM2020

    AnID ACS did enter Data for the following tourneys for your army:
    - BSB2020
    - Cinco
    - Silesian
    - a spanish tourney
    - US Summercamp

    You can look up yourself from how many tourneys TA has lists (there was a whole thread for entering data for 2020) ... no one from DH did care to enter ... if Data is entered 2021, we will use it. :)

    To prevent everbody thinking someone else will do it for 2021 I will install a live feed for already entered data post Balancing Patch going gold.

    Advisery Board Member

    Organises: TA, TS and ACS. Click to apply to staff. Me, Project Statements, Staff role, "moderating" My Channel We strive for inclusion. Please report ...phobic posts. Anonymous reports through me are possible.
  • Just_Flo wrote:

    DH Community did enter and submit lists for the following tourneys:
    - 9th Age fanken Cup
    - LBM2020

    AnID ACS did enter Data for the following tourneys for your army:
    - BSB2020
    - Cinco
    - Silesian
    - a spanish tourney
    - US Summercamp

    You can look up yourself from how many tourneys TA has lists (there was a whole thread for entering data for 2020) ... no one from DH did care to enter ... if Data is entered 2021, we will use it. :)

    To prevent everbody thinking someone else will do it for 2021 I will install a live feed for already entered data post Balancing Patch going gold.

    So DH didn't get a balance patch based upon 2020 data really then? Only off of a few tournaments?
    Free command groups for standard infantry
  • Just_Flo wrote:

    DH Community did enter and submit lists for the following tourneys:
    - 9th Age fanken Cup
    - LBM2020

    AnID ACS did enter Data for the following tourneys for your army:
    - BSB2020
    - Cinco
    - Silesian
    - a spanish tourney
    - US Summercamp

    You can look up yourself from how many tourneys TA has lists (there was a whole thread for entering data for 2020) ... no one from DH did care to enter ... if Data is entered 2021, we will use it. :)

    To prevent everbody thinking someone else will do it for 2021 I will install a live feed for already entered data post Balancing Patch going gold.
    But one post above you have data collected from much more tourneys, and our ACS showed this data to you.
    ...Bloody forest... damn tree-huggers and daisy-eaters... burn 'em all...
  • For me the problems with DH are:

    1. The army is to boring to play it as major army. Also because the potentials are at other codexes are higher.
    2. My last list was so dominant that my meta (against some players of the German ETC struggled or werent successful in tourneys) that people tailored against it.
    3. Team tourneys means pretty onesided lists which is bad for several Dwarf concepts in my view.

    But honestly every time my dragon seekers bury there axe in the last opponent on the table I think to myself

    Display Spoiler
    whinning wont wins games.
    The Bad Beards (ID)
    Clan Skuf (DH)
    Zee Brood (SA)
    The Crown of Fangs [the strings behind the fools] (VC)
  • Cam wrote:

    Just_Flo wrote:

    DH Community did enter and submit lists for the following tourneys:
    - 9th Age fanken Cup
    - LBM2020

    AnID ACS did enter Data for the following tourneys for your army:
    - BSB2020
    - Cinco
    - Silesian
    - a spanish tourney
    - US Summercamp

    You can look up yourself from how many tourneys TA has lists (there was a whole thread for entering data for 2020) ... no one from DH did care to enter ... if Data is entered 2021, we will use it. :)

    To prevent everbody thinking someone else will do it for 2021 I will install a live feed for already entered data post Balancing Patch going gold.
    So DH didn't get a balance patch based upon 2020 data really then? Only off of a few tournaments?
    Many army communites did not really participate in the 2020 data collection :(

    That and problems with the initial 2020 analyse files (my fault for programming them to convulted) did let to this years Blance update in regard units and Army book entries being based mostly on the survey and EE and corrections to them due to ACS input.

    That happend to all armies.

    Advisery Board Member

    Organises: TA, TS and ACS. Click to apply to staff. Me, Project Statements, Staff role, "moderating" My Channel We strive for inclusion. Please report ...phobic posts. Anonymous reports through me are possible.
  • Lakson wrote:

    Just_Flo wrote:

    DH Community did enter and submit lists for the following tourneys:
    - 9th Age fanken Cup
    - LBM2020

    AnID ACS did enter Data for the following tourneys for your army:
    - BSB2020
    - Cinco
    - Silesian
    - a spanish tourney
    - US Summercamp

    You can look up yourself from how many tourneys TA has lists (there was a whole thread for entering data for 2020) ... no one from DH did care to enter ... if Data is entered 2021, we will use it. :)

    To prevent everbody thinking someone else will do it for 2021 I will install a live feed for already entered data post Balancing Patch going gold.
    But one post above you have data collected from much more tourneys, and our ACS showed this data to you.

    When I open the spoiler I see nothing. Please check if you entered the link correctly. I will check on a different computer if the one I am on is the reason for not seeing something in your spoiler.

    Data collection threads exist for more than a year. The format we need the data to be usable processable for us is known to everybody who does want to know it.

    I have asked several times in 2019 and 2020 in the open board, in the staff boards and in several pms you were part of to contribute to them.

    Advisery Board Member

    Organises: TA, TS and ACS. Click to apply to staff. Me, Project Statements, Staff role, "moderating" My Channel We strive for inclusion. Please report ...phobic posts. Anonymous reports through me are possible.
  • I mean I thought we had a TA team to collect data? I don't think you can blame the community (or the ACS guys as your post above)

    If TA didn't do it and it's being made as the communities fault then I can do it for the tournaments listed in that magic overview. But it will be in the format above.

    However given that magic spreadsheet has been ignored thus far and claims are being made that DH magic is not underused despite having that data available then I won't do it unless it's actually going to be used.
    Free command groups for standard infantry
  • Slayer Zabojcow wrote:

    In my opinion DH is more like:
    DH is not a bottom tier army? Ok nerf copters till it is Tier 5.
    DH tier 5? Here you go - cheaper warriors! But in exchange we lower your adv/mar to 2/6.
    Remember that in this patch DH was in the bottom tier army and still copters get nerf.

    So it should be something more like:

    DH is not a bottom tier army? Ok nerf copters till it is Tier 5.
    DH tier 5? Here you go - cheaper warriors! But in exchange we lower your adv/mar to 2/6. And nerf copters +5 just in case.
    ...Bloody forest... damn tree-huggers and daisy-eaters... burn 'em all...
  • Cam wrote:

    I mean I thought we had a TA team to collect data? I don't think you can blame the community (or the ACS guys as your post above)

    If TA didn't do it and it's being made as the communities fault then I can do it for the tournaments listed in that magic overview. But it will be in the format above.

    However given that magic spreadsheet has been ignored thus far and claims are being made that DH magic is not underused despite having that data available then I won't do it unless it's actually going to be used.
    If I wasn't clear in communicating that TA does not have the rescources to transfer the lists for all armies without help the more than dozens of times I did ask people to contribute in the past years, than that is my fault.

    Yes, TA can be organised more effectively and I am on it.

    I belive that the question who's fault it is that the lists weren't transfered does prevent an answer to the more important question, to the question how we will achieve that the data is there next patch.

    TA, ACS (where some did the entering for their whole army alone in 2019 and 2020 and some even for other armies, too ) and Community are all possible answers with different pros and cons and different avaiability.

    Advisery Board Member

    Organises: TA, TS and ACS. Click to apply to staff. Me, Project Statements, Staff role, "moderating" My Channel We strive for inclusion. Please report ...phobic posts. Anonymous reports through me are possible.