Pinned DE General Discussion

Janus · Nov 26th 2022, 10:45pm

Eol wrote:

Many players Talk about using giants, could you elaborate It?

The giants are a great addition to the dark elves. In my opinion, elves suffer from a lack of a cheap unit that is effective at flanking the enemy. In order to do this, it needs to be manoeuvrable, reasonably fast and not have too large a base(and do not die even from zombies so easily). Koe have for example a unit of pegasi, SE warhawks, etc. Giants are well suited to this role -additionally, they are cheap and can deal with enemy infantry blocks themselves, effectively killing them rather than just holding them. The truth is that in DE up to 300 pts we can field:
2 gorgons - lack of light troopers makes them not so manoeuvrable
5 knights - slow and paper
leviathan - large base
thunder packs - after changes - no manoeuvrable, large base and slow
chariots - slow and papery
acolytes - even from the flank with a block of 30 zombies will eventually die (where is aegis 4+ in cc?)

let's agree - our monsters are very expensive and our unsupported infantry against a good player won't kill much (2x redirect, one or 2 turns to move, 1 turn charge with cc, and then maybe next round of cc )

That's why I think the giants contribute a lot, and of course, I wish it was possible to play them.

rbf911 · Nov 26th 2022, 11:33pm

Looking for some clarifications on the changes to TP. ACS mentioned that RT says DE should have limited lateral movement. That doesn’t mean no lateral movement.
So my question is what non-single combat units remain that have good lateral movement? Dread Knights?
I’m not sure if that is considered too many units with lateral movement but it does explain why people are looking to use the supplement giant more often now. IMO, DE need something that is maneuverable (i.e. on the flanks) and can survive to get into combat.

Mojzesz · Nov 27th 2022, 12:37am

Janus wrote:

Eol wrote:

Many players Talk about using giants, could you elaborate It?

The giants are a great addition to the dark elves. In my opinion, elves suffer from a lack of a cheap unit that is effective at flanking the enemy. In order to do this, it needs to be manoeuvrable, reasonably fast and not have too large a base(and do not die even from zombies so easily). Koe have for example a unit of pegasi, SE warhawks, etc. Giants are well suited to this role -additionally, they are cheap and can deal with enemy infantry blocks themselves, effectively killing them rather than just holding them. The truth is that in DE up to 300 pts we can field:2 gorgons - lack of light troopers makes them not so manoeuvrable
5 knights - slow and paper
leviathan - large base
thunder packs - after changes - no manoeuvrable, large base and slow
chariots - slow and papery
acolytes - even from the flank with a block of 30 zombies will eventually die (where is aegis 4+ in cc?)

let's agree - our monsters are very expensive and our unsupported infantry against a good player won't kill much (2x redirect, one or 2 turns to move, 1 turn charge with cc, and then maybe next round of cc )

That's why I think the giants contribute a lot, and of course, I wish it was possible to play them.

My thoughts exactly.

VampsinMD · Nov 27th 2022, 12:55am

Janus wrote:

That's why I think the giants contribute a lot, and of course, I wish it was possible to play them.

can't remember the last tournament I attended that disallowed the giant supplement...

FrenchBurger · Nov 27th 2022, 12:59am

VampsinMD wrote:

Janus wrote:

That's why I think the giants contribute a lot, and of course, I wish it was possible to play them.

can't remember the last tournament I attended that disallowed the giant supplement...

ETC

Peanut Arbuckle · Nov 27th 2022, 2:03am

Giants for all armies is a ridiculous concept and shouldn't have ever been a supplement book.

Boo_619 · Nov 27th 2022, 2:26am

Exalted Champion wrote:

Boo_619 wrote:

The dread elf assassin should have a rule that he can ignore challenges. It’s awful gameplay wise that he can’t assassinate a character and it’s super awful fluff wise that an assassin would honour a duel to protect his target. The Vermin assassins can already do this so it doesn’t need to be a new rule.

Yeah. And it is an unique rule to VS, that fits also with their background. Why should everyone with an assassin have it?

Because there are only 2 assassins and one of them gets used because of its rules and one doesn’t , it’s not rocket science

Ozzy666 · Nov 27th 2022, 7:10am

Ozzy666 wrote:

Something I've been wondering about, though it's not really related to the latest update - was there any talk about moving from having The Menagerie (max. 30%) in Army Organisation to Menagerie (X) in Army Model Rules? I see a number of other armybooks implementing this kind of change, and I think it's a very good idea, so I'm curious as to why we're not doing the same?

Best Wishes
Ozzy

@DarkSky is there a chance to ask the team that?

Best Wishes
Ozzy

Exalted Champion · Nov 27th 2022, 8:31am

Boo_619 wrote:

Exalted Champion wrote:

Boo_619 wrote:

The dread elf assassin should have a rule that he can ignore challenges. It’s awful gameplay wise that he can’t assassinate a character and it’s super awful fluff wise that an assassin would honour a duel to protect his target. The Vermin assassins can already do this so it doesn’t need to be a new rule.

Yeah. And it is an unique rule to VS, that fits also with their background. Why should everyone with an assassin have it?

Because there are only 2 assassins and one of them gets used because of its rules and one doesn’t , it’s not rocket science

And it didn't comes to mind, that VS assassin sees more play because of other, multiplying factors?
Or did you ever see a list with lesser than 2 or 3 assassins?

If DE assassin isn't played, the price algorithm will take care of it.

If things doesn't see play, it can't be the first solution to claim the same OP rules other books got and take away their uniqueness.
Otherwise all units in every book will run around with Agi 6,lightning reflexes, Fearless and 2+armour.

Let's just streamline everything and give every unit to every army.

Wesser · Nov 27th 2022, 8:45am

kangur wrote:

Exalted Champion wrote:

Boo_619 wrote:

The dread elf assassin should have a rule that he can ignore challenges. It’s awful gameplay wise that he can’t assassinate a character and it’s super awful fluff wise that an assassin would honour a duel to protect his target. The Vermin assassins can already do this so it doesn’t need to be a new rule.

Yeah. And it is an unique rule to VS, that fits also with their background. Why should everyone with an assassin have it?

Maybe because only DE and VS have access to it so it could be simplified ? VS assasins are played but DE none

It could open for other armies getting Assassins of a sort too.

SE snipers anyone?

Xso · Nov 27th 2022, 10:13am

Exalted Champion wrote:

If DE assassin isn't played, the price algorithm will take care of it.

Cool. We will be able to play him in 2027.

Stevone13 · Nov 27th 2022, 10:31am

Go back to old assassin with shooting stars and poison, if you allow assassin also contribute in shooting phase I’m sure that they will be more played. 3 stars S4 ap3 mw2

rolan · Nov 27th 2022, 1:22pm

Or allow the assassin to use weapon enchantments, fluffwise a highly trained warior is valuable enough that access to tools that better his performance should be available.

DarkSky · Nov 27th 2022, 5:52pm

Ozzy666 wrote:

was there any talk about moving from having The Menagerie (max. 30%) in Army Organisation to Menagerie (X) in Army Model Rules?

Currently there are no plans to make that move also for Dread Elves.

Honeym · Nov 27th 2022, 6:35pm

Makes no sense - what about the streamlining?

setrius · Nov 27th 2022, 7:11pm

Is it possible delete this rule from the book?

Kolossal Kraken* (0–1 Units/Army)
*Armies with one or more Beastmasters only

Babnik Kalenina · Nov 27th 2022, 9:43pm

VampsinMD wrote:

Janus wrote:

That's why I think the giants contribute a lot, and of course, I wish it was possible to play them.

can't remember the last tournament I attended that disallowed the giant supplement...

Most tourneys today accept Giant supplement, but not ETC yet. Too bad, ETC captains are too conservative
Once chairman, I included the Giant supplement in the last ETC vote for rule pack. Although they didn't make it, Giants still had better votes than other supplements

Ozzy666 · Nov 27th 2022, 10:07pm

DarkSky wrote:

Ozzy666 wrote:

was there any talk about moving from having The Menagerie (max. 30%) in Army Organisation to Menagerie (X) in Army Model Rules?

Currently there are no plans to make that move also for Dread Elves.

sadge

Thanks for the answer though

Best Wishes
Ozzy

Cam · Nov 27th 2022, 10:42pm

Babnik Kalenina wrote:

VampsinMD wrote:

Janus wrote:

That's why I think the giants contribute a lot, and of course, I wish it was possible to play them.

can't remember the last tournament I attended that disallowed the giant supplement...

Most tourneys today accept Giant supplement, but not ETC yet. Too bad, ETC captains are too conservativeOnce chairman, I included the Giant supplement in the last ETC vote for rule pack. Although they didn't make it, Giants still had better votes than other supplements

Rightly I think. Some races giants are far superior than others.

I like the supplement. It's a good fun addition. But it's also definitely not balanced.

berti · Nov 27th 2022, 10:46pm

Giants are from background in some armies. Putting them for an April joke in every army is OK.
Making this permanent is not.
More so with very unbalanced and not in army context created giants in different armies.

Pinned DE General Discussion

Eol wrote:

Janus wrote:

Eol wrote:

Janus wrote:

VampsinMD wrote:

Janus wrote:

Exalted Champion wrote:

Boo_619 wrote:

Ozzy666 wrote:

Boo_619 wrote:

Exalted Champion wrote:

Boo_619 wrote:

kangur wrote:

Exalted Champion wrote:

Boo_619 wrote:

Exalted Champion wrote:

Ozzy666 wrote:

VampsinMD wrote:

Janus wrote:

DarkSky wrote:

Ozzy666 wrote:

Babnik Kalenina wrote:

VampsinMD wrote:

Janus wrote:

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