Dwarven Holds - LAB - DH community's collaborative effort

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    • ilovepeanut wrote:

      OK will look into it this evening. Do you want me to come with something for weapon/armour runes?
      I'll also finish my commentary for special and onwards.
      Of course! Would be great to see the items create synergies with the functionality of the troops (especially the banner runes). (Like the dread elves did with the academy and the fear rules)

      In my opinion, we should reduce the rune department a little (when it comes to quantity).

      Also it would be nice if we could consider the rough point cost for the Anvil mounts. There is just a placeholder at it's spot. (that maybe works for the static anvil, but not for the mobile one)

      But in general, all input is precious, thanks for the effort.
    • I think I already have a pretty good idea concerning runes.
      I think we should have multiple "paths" with mutualy exclusive runes for major runes, meaning that we could go for weapons or armour that provide powerful effects for the wearer but nothing else or runes that provide weaker effects but also share some of it with the bearers unit.
      On top on it we should also have the possibility to choose between raw power or cost efficiency in secondary runes.
    • Took some time but here are my 800 words cents.


      I generally like it, although the agi drop needs some getting used to. This will mean that a king will always get defensive runes, driving up the cost.

      The Thane has an higher Agi…

      Res 5!, A through Runelord is born. I think the usefulness goes up with the special ability, and will see more use of the runesmith.

      Also with the warplatform altar, love it, as I never used the immobile one, and therefore also not used magic.

      Like it. the option building is exactly how I envisioned it.

      In the characteristics box it’s called the Runesmith

      Doesn’t it get a runic allowance?

      Is the Agi drop on purpose?

      There seems to be no limit to either engineers in general, or the job descriptions. I’d limit the Trailblazer to 3, the operator to 3 and the bombardier to 2

      In the characteristics box it’s called the Runesmith


      War Throne
      Good change on the offensive shieldbearers and defensive war throne.

      With he warthrone become choice for forefather’s seat, I think the point cost should come down.

      Finally a war platform! Moving the +1AP to the platform really works well I think.
      I’d put the war platform on a 40x40 base, then it can join the (runic) hold guardians

      The copter doesn’t bring anything offensive. Comparing it to other flying mounts, I think it should. Giving it a slightly more melee power, will increase it’s offensive role and lessen it’s avoidance. Especially if it joins a unit of copters.

      I’d give the copters (incl the mount copter) a Vent gun, or at least the choice between the perforator and vent gun.

      The S3 grenades are really underwhelming…

      Same as before, but with more Kin synergy. I’d boost the runic allowance to 25 pts.

      Clan Marksmen

      I don’t use handguns in my army, but the rules seem good to distinguish from the quarrellers.


      Same as before, but with more Kin synergy. I’d boost the runic allowance to 25 pts. Like the throwing weapons fixed cost.

      If we want to distinguish them more, maybe give ‘em auto shield, PW, GW & weapon master

      King’s Guard
      I’d give them normal plate, as Runic plate is a character thing (as described in infernal plate discussion by WammeWamme in the ID Beta somewhere)

      I think the diamond formation is a great way of combining the holdstone, without actually giving them the holdstone.

      Would the diamond formation not be more logical to be both sides as from? Then the unit only has a rear being venerable. Maybe even put in a “nerf” to disallow the holdstone in this formation.

      I’d give them normal plate, as Runic plate is a character thing (as described in infernal plate discussion by WammeWamme in the ID Beta somewhere)

      No more paired weapon/pistol miners? What is Omar gonna say??? Anyway, think it might work out

      Sappers with vanguard and wall is this abusable?

      Btw Sappers are cheaper than marksmen, and have GW & shield.

      This is my only disappointment, as the book now only has crag warden to use (right?) no more scouting ranked units? Always X-bow?

      Maybe build them as a 2 way option like the pioneers:

      Base: shield, crossbow, scout

      Foragers: 2/model, unit gains hard target ,light troops, skirmisher, strider (forest), Optional great weapons for 2 pts

      Dragoons: 2/model, unit gains scoring, throwing weapons & great weapons

      Hold Guardians
      Personally I found the Agi Runic engraving to be very useful, when fighting similar monstrous infantry.

      I’d create a living soul as a sort of Giant, but then it would become a separate unit entry.

      Engines of Brew

      Brewery warden
      The old forge wardens and before the Iron drakes, maybe this will convince me, although at max 10, I’m inclined to leave it.

      Copter squad
      I’d limit the unit to 6 copters in total, and not limit the unit size (I’d live to have a 4 copter unit)

      I think the vent gun would be a good option. And for me more flavorful.

      As said in mount, the S3 grenades are underwhelming

      Battle kettle
      I’d change the base size to 40x40, change the breath attack to the vent gun to be used in combat and lose the brewer attacks & breath attack.

      Flying flame cannon for the win!

      Ambush flame cannon for the win! (can it shoot in the turn it enters the game?)

      Nice option build

      I think it misses “Cannot be stomped

      Field Artillery
      There’s a typo in the field artillery cost (1010 pts is a lot, even if we include runic plate…)

      I’ve baffled as to why the limit nerf to Ballistae is necessary? The current overuse of ballista is mainly due to the lackluster of the rest and pricing, not because a simple bolt thrower is so powerful.

      Their will probably need to be a limit to the combo of twin organ gun/ twin engineer as the RT is really opposed to that. I’d put the limit within the OG itself, not in points or unit picks.
    • Since I got some time on my hands...

      I really like the lightning reflex charge I wish there some way to boost their agility but I imagine this is not what DH is about. However with the new shieldwall and runic plate they are a lot more durable and make them a lot more usable because despite their armor they often felt more fragile than seekers. King's handshake was too much tho. So good thing it's gone.

      I like the high defence value. I'm worried the diamond formation rule might imprison them in a role of flank holders.

      Very good. I like the inspiration from DE corsairs. I like that GW are mandatory but maybe it should be for the miner part only. Unless you want that to be the big difference with marksmen. Also the pricing needs some attention compared to marksmen.

      Perfect that way. As much as having scouting scoring was good I didn't see anyone use that to his advantage for now and mi.ers are already the big scoring choice of the army anyway. Skirmisher makes them stubborn in forests too.

      As much as I was opposed to the idea of non unbreakable seekers, I think I'm starting to see the appeal now. However in the state I don't think this entry is playable. Without YCWM or unbreakable they become specialised monster hunters but they lack the agility (in term of mouvement) needed. The head hunter upgrade is interesting but in skirmish formation you are limiting the number of model in contact.
      So here are a couple of ideas. Including ideas for dragon seekers.
      -Giving cannot be stomped to Dragon seekers?
      -Allowing DS to have different kind of "blessing" one of them being Grim Resolve. Another being a unit and personal offensive buff. (Divine attacks). Last one being a unit and personal degensive buff. (DS gets aegis 4++, rest of the unit gets aegis 5++).
      -Make the head hunter seekers the default state of the unit but without skirmisher, for the reason stated above ,maybe without hard target too but keeping light troops and 15 models max.
      + Giving 1unit/army the possibility to get up to 25 models, vanguard, unbreakable. So that you can still use a suicide squad but only one. Maybe tie that to a Dragon seeker too, like one DS/army can get this perk and join the vengeance brotherhood.
      -Linking seekers and grudges: So that the dragon seekers brings his own grudge and all seekers get swifstride for pursuit against all grudged units. It will also make so that we only have 1 type of marking instead of 2.

      I'm just throwing science to wall to see what sticks here.

      Vengeance zeolots.
      I see a continuation of the "determined to die" theme of the seekers here. Still good as chaff.
      I wonder if they'll be usable as a unit. But this needs testing.

      Hold Guardians:
      The base size change has to be a separate option from the adaptable choice. You can't expect people to change the base of their models on the fly or to build a whole unit more "just in case".
      What I see here is the possibility to add actual "dwarf bear cav".
      With two options:
      - infantry with the 3 choices (maybe a defensive option like +1AS and parry to fill in the hole)
      - or long base, change the unit type to beast and set advance/march to 6/12. But with base stats and adaptable option.

      I think I'll need a 3rd episode.
    • Squigkikka wrote:

      Am I allowed to post ideas and concepts, that sort of thing? I mean, stuff that I've been brewing on but haven't wanted to post? Or would you rather have feedback on the work you've done? :)
      Mate, a lot of stuff, you told me like 1 or 2 years ago completely changed how I see DH. You are the one, responsible for deleting my wish for more pure shooting power. You also gave me my first real insights into the dialectic nature of LAB design. In my opinion, we can not get anywhere, if you don't participate in this.

      @all other community masterminds - I will put your latest ideas into the PDF as soon as I can. (I have a loooot filming and studio work to do atm. So maybe we have to discuss and collect ideas for 1-2 weeks before I can update it. I hope that's okay for you and I am so stoked for all the new input in here!

      Edit: I also got a lot of PMs on discord, in the forum and on whatsapp with input, feedback and wishes. I will try to take as much into consideration as possible. Also please see this an an invitation to participate in the thread openly. (But you can continue on the other platforms)
    • Peanut's proposal for weapon and armour runes.

      -Customisable weapons and armour.
      -Making different but equally interesting paths in order to avoid the situation where everybody takes to same rune combo.
      -Making some runes powerfull but expensive and other cheaper and weaker but cost effective.

      General rules:
      3 runes per weapon maximum.
      Supreme runes share a unnique one of a kind restriction.
      Runes can be applied to hand weapons / paired weapons / great weapons
      The rule that makes it impossible to have 2 items with the same runes is gone. (Need to put (0-X per army) restrictions to avoid spam).

      Weapon runes:
      [0-1 per army : Destruction/Skill/Crushing]

      -Supreme rune of destruction:
      Great weapon only.
      Multiple wound 1d3.

      -Supreme rune of skill:
      The bearer gains +2 offensive skill and defensive skill.
      R&F models in the same unit gain +1 offensive skill and defensive skill.

      -Supreme rune of crushing:
      Great weapon only.
      Whenever the bearer succesfully hits a non-R&F model in a melee the model's owner may choose either the weapon, shield or suit of armour. This equipment is destroyed along with any enchantment attached to it for the rest of the game.

      -Rune of Pummeling:
      Handweapon only.
      Sets the attack value of the wielder to 4, the attack value of the wielder can never be more than 4.

      -Rune of Concusion:
      Attecks made with this weapon have their strength set to 5, the strength of the attack made with this weapon can never be more than 5.

      -Rune of Might:
      0-1 rune per runic weapon
      Attacks with this rune have +1 Strength and + 1 Armour Penetration.

      -Rune of Fury:
      For each Rune of Fury engraved on a weapon the wielder gains +1 Attack value. To a maximum of +2.

      -Rune of Fire:
      At the start of any Phase or Round of Combat, this Rune may be activated. If so, attacks made with a weapon engraved with this Rune gain Flaming Attacks until the end of the Phase.

      -Rune of penetration:
      Each Rune of penetration gives the wielder +1 armour penetration.

      Armour runes:
      [0-1 per army : Shielding/Steel/Retribution]
      -Supreme Rune of Shielding:
      Shield only.
      The bearer gains +2 defensive skill and parry even if mounted and cannot lose parry.
      R&F models in the same unit gain parry or +1 defensive skill if they already had it.

      (Maybe put ^here^ the "shield you allies" idea. (Every save roll of 6 saves two wounds instead of one.))

      -Supreme Rune of Steel:
      The bearer must reroll failed armour saves.

      -Supreme Rune of Retribution:
      The bearer gains:
      For ever successful armour saves of 5+ or more, the attacking model suffers a hit with the force and armour penetration of the saved attack.
      The bearer's unit gain:
      For ever successful armour saves of 6+, the attacking model suffers a hit with the force and armour penetration of the saved attack.

      -Rune of Iron:
      +1 Armour.

      -Rune of the forge:
      The wearer of an armour engraved with this Rune gains Aegis (2+, against Flaming Attacks).

      Side nots:
      I revamped the ideas I had before for runes and added the branching paths idea I had since then.
      The idea is to have the possibility to make characters that are either powerful or that buff the unit or that bring a special ability.
      Along with that runes are more flexible with the removal of the no copying runic items, since it only lead to people going around this rule by adding a 10pts rune.
      I think there needs to be more armour runes, I don't know it feels empty. But at the same time our characters are already tanky enough that additional protection seems superfluous.
      Need to try and see what combination would be OP or not to put restrictions in place. Having some (0-3 per army) on most weapon runes would prevent spams.

      I voluntarily removed lighting because the "lesser rune" system is supposed to allow lesser characters to fight as well.
      And removed lightning reflex because GW are runable now.
    • @Loghaire

      I had to google the meaning of "dialectic", hahaha! I'm not sure however that I need to be involved in any way in that sense- if anything, I think it's better if I don't give feedback because at this point, I'm sure it'd be more of a suffocating-blanket kind of thing.

      I would very much like to share some of the ideas for a new DH I've had, but it's very different in some ways from the current armybook- my attempt at being a bit less boring? Would it be alright if I post those? :D

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Squigkikka ().

    • Squigkikka wrote:

      I would very much like to share some of the ideas for a new DH I've had, but it's very different in some ways from the current armybook- my attempt at being a bit less boring? Would it be alright if I post those?
      Still waiting for @Squigkikka 's input.

    • ilovepeanut wrote:

      Squigkikka wrote:

      I would very much like to share some of the ideas for a new DH I've had, but it's very different in some ways from the current armybook- my attempt at being a bit less boring? Would it be alright if I post those?
      Still waiting for @Squigkikka 's input.

      The above post still applies.

      I'd say post it here and advertise this topic in general so that those interested may find it.
    • Alright, so here goes! Don't get your hopes up, because I'm clearly no longer privy to the 9th Age meta and the mess I've designed here is more about theme than necessarily being a competitive army (although of course, the idea is to make a cool, fun army that can be played coherently!).

      Really, really basic premise of this vision of Dwarves that is inspired by Tolkien and more (and prob ignores some 9th fluff while emphasis other aspects):

      Dwarves are extremely in tune with how the world was shaped; from the Mighty Songs sung at the beginning of time, to the True and Secret name of all things. These Secret Names can only be captured in writing via Runes, and in speaking via Song. So, the Dwarves do all this cool craftsmanship and singing and whatnot.

      That means they're really in tune with magic, but (again) not in a way that other races are. I've tried to make a magic system that is easy to grasp and play with, but hopefully offers more nuance than the current Bound system while still feeling unique and worthwhile.

      I want you to imagine deep-throated Dwarf singing and chanting that manages to drown out the enemy, and Skyrim's Dragonborn Shouts and Voice as the Runemasters and Runecarvers speak the language of the making to shape the world around them.

      Note: In this army, magic is 100% must and expected. Sorry! That's because the name of this idea is...

      Dwarven Hold Runekeepers

      The Songs and True Names of Making

      In the spoiler below is suggested listening to get you in the right mood!

      Key aspects:

      • "Magic" 100%. All units can perform "magic".
      • Take a close look at how the "magic" works (Divided into Secret Words and Power Words)
      • Few "elite" units, army is meant to be able to shift power around quickly with the "magic".
      • Removal of Shieldwall, Vanguard and Grudges as mechanic
      • Favoring focusing on Dwarven armor, making it better- or completely invulnerable- to AP.
      • High reliance on ambushing units
      • Fewer character types, more focus on using Runic system to craft a character. No King or Engineer.
      • Close combat oriented

      • Designed to mess with enemy movement and response
      • Miners (Delvers) and Forge Wardens (Tunnel Wardens) in Core as Ambushers who can appear from edge, mountain or hill
      • Grudge Buster -> Troop Transport that can upgrade into ambushing anywhere
      • Merging of Longbeards and Deep Watch in Core
      • Copters meant to disrupt and coordinate with shooting, not shoot themselves as much
      • Unit entries are renamed because I like renaming things for fluff, but not fully detailed with stats- I've tried to include key stats I think are important.

      Potential problems:

      • OP as heck
      • UP as heck
      • Boring to play with and/or against
      • Still little unit variety (I like all infantry aaahhhh)

      Display Spoiler

      Army special rules

      Song in the Dale = A unit with this rule always counts as having a Musician (measuring from any model in the unit), A unit not under 25% strength may add [X] to its rally test. Enemy units within 8” one or more units suffer [X] Discipline when taking a March, Swift Reform or Combat Reform test.

      Runic Resonance = When this unit is the target of a Power Word, another friendly unit within 8” this unit has the Song in the Dale special rule also counts as a target for that Power Word

      Mountain roots = This unit, when ambushing, may instead of appearing from the boards edge choose to appear from impassable mountain terrain (base contact, back) or a hill (wholly within).

      Tough = If a model with this rule dies, it’s not removed until after Agility Step 0.


      After converting Veil Tokens, the player opposing the Runekeeper may remove as many PD from the Runekeeper pool as opposing player has DD.

      (Example: Runekeeper gets 7 PD, Opposing gets 5 DD. He removes 5 PD with his 5 DD, leaving a total of 2 PD to the Runekeeper)

      Alternatively, the opposing player can choose:

      Up to 1 Secret Word
      Up to 1 Power Word

      That may not be used this phase, at the cost of DD corresponding to PD cost. He may then remove as many PD from the Runekeeper Pool as he has DD remaining

      (Example 2: Runekeeper gets 7 PD, Opposing gets 5 DD. He removes Secret Word: Song for 2 DD, and Power Word: Voice for 1 DD. He then uses his remaining 2 DD to remove 2 PD, leaving a total of 5 PD to the Runekeeper that may not use certain Power/Secret words).

      Secret Words (Zul-Zirrim)
      2 PD
      Accessible to Rune Master, Runic Anvil and Zul-Zirrim Runecarver
      Runemaster 12”
      Zul-Zirrim Runecarver 12”
      Runic Anvil 36”

      Song = Target friendly unit’s Song in the Dale now also affects enemy Break Tests (Steadfast still applies).

      Steadfast = A friendly unit gains Distracting and Hard Target. Additionally, its Song in the Dale modifier may be used as a bonus to Discipline on its own break test.

      Sovereignty = Target friendly unit gains MR corresponding to its Song in the Dale [X] modifier, and so do enemy units in base contact for the purposes of all spells.

      Power Words (Khûf-thul)
      1 PD
      Accessible to all units with Song in the Dale
      Always Target Self (Augment)

      Voice = Song in the Dale gains +1 to its modifier.

      Warding = This unit may ignore 1 AP from all enemy attacks.

      Weapon = All weapon in the unit gain +1 AP

      Special Equipment

      Foe Hammer
      HW and TW. If a unit wielding this weapon is subject to Power Word: Weapon, it gains area 2x1 attack in both melee and ranged.

      Runic Plate
      Plate Armor. A unit where the majority of models have Runic Plate may stack a Power Word an additional time.

      Horn of the High Rune
      A bearer adds +1 to his units Song in the Dale modifier (multiple HHR do not stack).

      Hearth’s Heart Flamer
      S4 AP0. If an enemy unit hit by this weapon Charges, Marches or Swift Reforms, the friendly unit that did the shooting may immediately fire again (before the enemy unit has moved).

      Iconic Runes (part of the classic Rune system)

      Rune of Strength

      Rune of Triumph
      For each friendly unit within 8” of the wielder (including his own) that has Song in the Dale, the bearer gains +1A.

      Rune of Iron
      +2 Armor

      Rune of Adamant
      A bearer under the effect of Power Word: Warding ignores all enemy AP in melee.

      Rune of True Naming
      The bearer may, when in base contact with an enemy unit containing a character, name one magic item on the enemy character. That item stops working as long as the combat lasts.

      Rune of Draining
      Runemaster only: While within 12” of an enemy model with Channeling, the bearer may steal 1 Veil Token from the enemy and add it to the Runekeeper’s Veil Token pool.

      Rune of Secret Making (Ex 70pts)
      The bearer of this rune may, after deployment, choose a new Rune with a cost of 50 or less.

      Banner of Laments
      The unit gains the Final Sacrifice special rule.

      Banner of Bolfaz’ Boon
      The unit may stack a Runic Power an additional time, as if it was wearing Runic Plate (does not stack with Runic Plate)


      Runemaster (Huge Runic Allowance, 300?)

      Song in the Dale [1], Channel [2]
      2A, R5, LD10


      Upgrade to Runemaster of the Making.

      A Runemaster of the Making may, before the first turn, secretly view the three highest cards of his own flux magic deck and rearrange their order.

      Thane (Huge Runic Allowance, 200?)

      Song in the Dale [1]
      2A, R5, LD9


      Upgrade to Delver Thane

      A Delver Thane gains ambush (Mountain Roots), and may add +1 to the ambush roll of a unit (even if the Delver Thane is not on the field).

      Zul-Zirrim Runecarver

      Song in the Dale [1]

      4A, R5, LD9
      May only use Weapon Runes

      Must choose one Secret Word:

      They always benefit from this Rune themselves (and may never benefit from any of the others). Additionally, he can cast it as if they were a Runemaster.


      Runic Anvil

      Song in the Dale [1], Channel [2]
      R5, 5W



      Song in the Dale [1]

      Delvers (Ambushers)

      Song in the Dale [1]
      Mountain Roots

      Tunnel Wardens (Ambushers)

      Song in the Dale [1]
      Mountain Roots

      Runic Defenders

      Song in the Dale [1]
      Runic Resonance



      Song in the Dale [1]

      Khûf-thul Elite

      Song in the Dale [1]
      S4, 2A

      Masterwork Inscriptions: A Khûf-thul Elite unit targeted by one or more Power Word gains +1 To Hit.

      Zul-Zirrim Sworn

      Song in the Dale [1]
      S4, 2A
      Naked (NOT Unbreakable!)
      Can Skirmish

      Must take one upgrade, corresponding to Secret Word. The unit counts as having it on at all times (and may never benefit from any of the other Secret Words).

      Zul-Zirrim Zealot

      Song in the Dale [1]
      5A, S5, AGI 10

      Of clay, the flesh: A Zul-Zirrim Zealot counts as having all three Secret Words at all times. At the end of Turn 6, a Zul-Zirrim Zealot perishes from the strain and awards victory points to the opponent.

      Guild Transport (Ambusher)

      Song in the Dale [1]
      Poor Guns, 3x3 S5 Grind
      R5 5W
      Plate (3+ armor)

      Can upgrade to Ambusher

      Troop carrier: Can “carry” 1 unit of max 15 models, no characters. If ambushing; Can “carry” 1 unit of max 10 models, no characters.

      Timely arrival: The unit may arrive anywhere on the battlefield as part of its ambush move and dislodge the troops it carries on the turn of arrival (they must arrive aligned to one of its flanks and not move)

      Guild Copter/Bomber
      Song in the Dale [1]
      Poor Gun, D3 S4 Grind (Bomber 2d6 S3 AP0)
      R4 4W
      Plate (4+ armor)

      Airborne Thunder: Enemy units taking a panic test within 8” of this unit does so at an additional -1.

      Hold Guardians

      Song in the Dale [2]
      3A S5
      RP (3+ armor)

      Final sacrifice: Instead of rolling a break test, this unit can choose to automatically flee. This unit can never roll higher than a 7 when fleeing, nor can enemy units pursuing it.

      WM Upgrade Engineer
      Adds +1 HP, Soft Cover and +1 Aim


      Song in the Dale [1]
      Runic Upgrade: May instead of shooting a Large or Gigantic unit fire intimidation barrage that hits on a 2+. If it hits, the enemy unit takes no damage but has Move and Advance halved (rounding up)


      Song in the Dale [1]
      Runic Upgrade: +1S, +1AP.


      Runic Upgrade: Can target enemy units out of LoS as long as they are within 8” and LoS of a friendly unit with Song in the Dale.

      Bolt Thrower

      Song in the Dale [1]
      Runic upgrade: Pseudo-scout

      Flame Cannon

      Song in the Dale [1]
      Runic Upgrade: If an enemy unit hit by the Flame Cannon Marches, Charges or Swift reforms, it inflicts an additional D6 + [X](Enemy ranks) hits.

      The post was edited 4 times, last by Squigkikka ().

    • I like it a lot.
      I didn't understand at first that any unit can cast one of the smaller buffs.

      I understand that you want to givesome agency to the opposing player. But I don't really get how it would work. When the opposing player removes one power word or secret word does it removes it for the whole army or for a single unit?

      I think in practice it would still play like battle runes with the opposing player letting you cast what he doesn't really care about.
      I think in that regard you could expand on the idea of removing PD.
      The opposing player could have the choice to either reduce the number of PW/SW we use by spending DD or he could use his DD to try to react/dispell the PW/SW we use but with less efficiency.
      Meaning the dwarves would either be able to cast freely the buffs he wants but in limited number or could not freely cast what he wants but have more buffs cast over-all.
      That way there is an incentive for the dwarf player to create multiple simultaneous situation where the use of a power ,word / secret word is greatly advantageous.
    • ilovepeanut wrote:

      The opposing player could have the choice to either reduce the number of PW/SW we use by spending DD or he could use his DD to try to react/dispell the PW/SW we use but with less efficiency.
      That's what I've done already, isn't it?

      The opposing player removes the SW and PW spells entirely from the repertoire, leaving the Runekeeper player with essentially 4-5 spells. But to do so costs DD! I don't know if you might've missed that bit in the text, but I'lll try to summarize it:

      7 PD vs 5 DD

      Can be either:

      7- 5 = 2
      2 PD for Dwarf to use freely on any spell


      2 DD - Secret Word Resilience = 7 PD vs 3 DD
      7 - 3 = 4
      4 PD for Dwarf to use on any spell (but not Secret Word Resilience)

      It would work in some regards like Battle Runes currently do, but I think key differences are:

      - Battle Runes with key spell stopped or not still means very few spells in.
      - Runekeeper means key spells stopped means a lot more other spells will go through
      - Opponent can only stop 1 key spell from Secret Word and Power Word
      - This is quicker than a magic phase

      Assuming a 7 - 5 phase (although I mean for Runekeeper armies to have bigger PD advantages)

      Display Spoiler
      Example with Battle Runes

      2 PD Resilience -> 2 DD Dispel
      3 PD Resilience -> 3 DD Dispel
      2 PD Gleaming -> Success

      1 Spell in but not the one you wanted (unless you do a 3-stack of the particular Battle Rune, of course!)

      Example with Runekeeper:

      Opposing player player removes 5 PD with his 5 DD

      2 PD Secret Word Resilience -> Success


      Opposing player Disables Secret Word Resilience for 2 DD, removes 3 PD with his remaining 3 DD, leaving 4 PD to the Runekeeper

      2 PD Secret Word Gleaming -> Success
      2 PD Secret Word Gleaming -> Success


      1 PD Power Word: Weapon -> Success
      1 PD Power Word: Weapon -> Success
      1 PD Power Word: Weapon -> Success
      1 PD Power Word: Weapon -> Success

      It's basically just meant to simulate a normal magic phase, that usually is all about hindering 1 key spell (opponents can chuck all their dice at it) but leaving yourself open to many other support spells, or trying to cover the number of spells going through at the cost of letting key ones in.

      I don't want an actual dispelling phase you react to, I just want the opponent to make a choice between letting DH have many buffs, or key buffs- and then for the DH player to activate his army accordingly with what remains to him.

      Finally, note for example on the Khûf-thul Elite (King's Guard, more or less) that their special ability is activated whenever there's any Power Word on them, meaning that their elite core hammering status cannot be removed (but you could stop Weapon or Warding specifically for example).

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Squigkikka ().

    • xaby86 wrote:

      It is very interesting. Very original ideas. We have some points in common, I have also made magic important for DH.
      Thank you!

      I felt like if a new 9th Age DH LAB is made, it ought to take a big step in some direction that would make it unique, or sever it a bit from the way it used to work. The biggest disappointment to me would be if a new DH book is just like the current one but like, a semi patch. DH 1.5? No! I want DH 2.0!

      That's why I'd be more than happy for the people who'll be on it (in the future- not me!) to smash apart the stuff the current book is built on and redefine it a bit if they think that's what would work best.

      For me, the Runekeeper idea is how I'd cement DH unique identity a bit, keeping with my conservative old grumble style by sticking to infantry only (but obviously, this idea can include just about any unit types if you'd like).