Balance Patch 2021 gold release notes KoE

DiscoQing · Feb 25th 2021, 4:31pm

McBaine wrote:

So, like this then:

Scorpion: Artillery Weapon. Range 48′′, Shots 1 (4+ to hit; +1 vs. flying), Str 8, AP 10, Multiple Wounds (D3+1, Clipped Wings).

Trebuchet: Artillery Weapon. Catapult (2×2). Range 12–60′′, Shots 2 (4+ to hit; +1 vs. 4+ Ranks), Str 4, AP 2.

I like this idea a lot too - Makes each machine specific in its task.
The Scorpion could be S7? or S8 is OK? Either way the points will get jacked up.
Treb looks good, but the way it can misfire may need to be looked at, as you mentioned.

Kratos · Feb 25th 2021, 4:46pm

i dont like it.

How much do you think that will cost?

My optimistic guess

Scorpion 180-200
Trebuchet 220-240

We need cheap dirty warmachines

McBaine · Feb 25th 2021, 5:47pm

Kratos wrote:

220-240

You think so? 240? Only a 15 point reduction for a nerf from 4x4 to 2x2 and loss of the strong multiple wound hit? Even with the proposed 2 shots, that's less than half the damage output (16 hits, one of them strong with MW vs. 2 times 4 hits without a strong one). If that's only 15 points less, than make it 15 pts more expensive and ramp up the damage.

Kratos · Feb 25th 2021, 6:10pm

you also give it +1 ap and +1 to hit.

Even if its 220 instead of 240 it will not be taken.

We need warmachines that cost 170 or less.

Or yeomen/chaff at core...

McBaine · Feb 25th 2021, 6:34pm

Kratos wrote:

you also give it +1 ap and +1 to hit.

AP is the same as it is now and the +1 to hit is only against units with 4+ ranks.

Kratos · Feb 25th 2021, 6:49pm

ops my bad
Been so long since i had them in list and even more since i hit with them

Glonojad · Feb 25th 2021, 10:36pm

Bownen versys annoyance...well,tried that against Sylvan Elves, and I just got a freshly planted forest opposite them :p

Grouchy Badger · Feb 26th 2021, 1:47am

late to the party: Treb is trash. Over costed, unreliable, and an expensive paper weight if it breaks down. I played/play a heavy foot KOE army and trebs rarely made their points. When it worked? Oh lawd it did damage!... But that was only a fifth of the time. Ive had two trebuchets only kill 140 or so odd points due to missing even at close range and made the game that much harder.

Edit: Not trying to toot my own horn but ive played the hell out of the KOE book and consider myself a lukewarm expert on the damn siege weapons. As said before they are really a gamble, and can drown you.

tulmir · Feb 26th 2021, 3:07am

Trebuchet is not a catapult, it has to be stronger than the catapult.

The reasons that it is expensive
- it's s4ap2
- it has 6 wounds

But if it becomes s3ap2 and 5 wounds the price should be manageable

Grouchy Badger · Feb 26th 2021, 3:26am

tulmir wrote:

Trebuchet is not a catapult, it has to be stronger than the catapult.

The reasons that it is expensive
- it's s4ap2
- it has 6 wounds

But if it becomes s3ap2 and 5 wounds the price should be manageable

Hell keep it s4ap2 and give it 2 wounds for all I bloody well care, if it gets into combat its dead anyway and theyee set so far back on the field them getting shot at is the least of a players worries.

Glonojad · Feb 26th 2021, 6:29am

@Grouchy Badger : would You share a succesfull infantty list? My results with one were abysmall even for me, but I'd gladly try one as I love the 5th ed bret infantry models...

Honeym · Feb 26th 2021, 6:56am

Glonojad wrote:

@Grouchy Badger : would You share a succesfull infantty list? My results with one were abysmall even for me, but I'd gladly try one as I love the 5th ed bret infantry models...

I would like to see it as well. Really want to field some footies. The minis are just so beautifull

Grouchy Badger · Feb 26th 2021, 7:58am

Glonojad wrote:

@Grouchy Badger : would You share a succesfull infantty list? My results with one were abysmall even for me, but I'd gladly try one as I love the 5th ed bret infantry models...

Honeym wrote:

Glonojad wrote:

@Grouchy Badger : would You share a succesfull infantty list? My results with one were abysmall even for me, but I'd gladly try one as I love the 5th ed bret infantry models...

I would like to see it as well. Really want to field some footies. The minis are just so beautifull

Glonojad wrote:

@Grouchy Badger : would You share a succesfull infantty list? My results with one were abysmall even for me, but I'd gladly try one as I love the 5th ed bret infantry models...

This is an old list that worked well enough. Opponents feared the infantry blocks and they gained respect.

++ Kingdom of Equitaine (Kingdom of Equitaine 2021 Beta 1) [4,490pts] ++

+ Characters +

Damsel [295pts]: Divination, Wizard Adept
. Special Equipment: Talisman of the Void, °Magical Heirloom

Duke [425pts]: Army General, Bastard Sword, Renown, Shield
. Grail Oath
. Special Equipment: Fortress of Faith, King Slayer (only on Foot), Uther's Conviction

Paladin [370pts]: Bastard Sword, Battle Standard Bearer, Piety, Shield
. Questing Oath
. Special Equipment: Blessed Inscriptions, Legion Standard, Willow's Ward (only on Foot)

Paladin [225pts]: Bastard Sword, Daring, Shield, Special Equipment
. Questing Oath

+ Core +

Knights Aspirant [225pts]: 5x Knight Aspirant

Knights Aspirant [225pts]: 5x Knight Aspirant

Peasant Bowmen [230pts]: Crossbow (4+), Musician, 16x Peasant Bowman

Peasant Bowmen [230pts]: Crossbow (4+), Musician, 16x Peasant Bowman

Peasant Bowmen [221pts]: Longbow (4+) & Braziers, 23x Peasant Bowman

+ Special +

Brigands [175pts]: 10x Brigand

Brigands [175pts]: 10x Brigand

Knights Forlorn [688pts]: Champion, 29x Knight Forlorn, Musician, Oriflamme, Standard Bearer

Knights Forlorn [601pts]: Champion, 28x Knight Forlorn, Musician, Standard Bearer

Sacred Reliquary [165pts]

Scorpion [120pts]

Scorpion [120pts]

++ Total: [4,490pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Honeym · Feb 26th 2021, 8:06am

Grouchy Badger wrote:

Glonojad wrote:

Glonojad wrote:

@Grouchy Badger : would You share a succesfull infantty list? My results with one were abysmall even for me, but I'd gladly try one as I love the 5th ed bret infantry models...

This is an old list that worked well enough. Opponents feared the infantry blocks and they gained respect.

++ Kingdom of Equitaine (Kingdom of Equitaine 2021 Beta 1) [4,490pts] ++

+ Characters +

Damsel [295pts]: Divination, Wizard Adept
. Special Equipment: Talisman of the Void, °Magical Heirloom

Duke [425pts]: Army General, Bastard Sword, Renown, Shield
. Grail Oath
. Special Equipment: Fortress of Faith, King Slayer (only on Foot), Uther's Conviction

Paladin [370pts]: Bastard Sword, Battle Standard Bearer, Piety, Shield
. Questing Oath
. Special Equipment: Blessed Inscriptions, Legion Standard, Willow's Ward (only on Foot)

Paladin [225pts]: Bastard Sword, Daring, Shield, Special Equipment
. Questing Oath

+ Core +

Knights Aspirant [225pts]: 5x Knight Aspirant

Knights Aspirant [225pts]: 5x Knight Aspirant

Peasant Bowmen [230pts]: Crossbow (4+), Musician, 16x Peasant Bowman

Peasant Bowmen [230pts]: Crossbow (4+), Musician, 16x Peasant Bowman

Peasant Bowmen [221pts]: Longbow (4+) & Braziers, 23x Peasant Bowman

+ Special +

Brigands [175pts]: 10x Brigand

Brigands [175pts]: 10x Brigand

Knights Forlorn [688pts]: Champion, 29x Knight Forlorn, Musician, Oriflamme, Standard Bearer

Knights Forlorn [601pts]: Champion, 28x Knight Forlorn, Musician, Standard Bearer

Sacred Reliquary [165pts]

Scorpion [120pts]

Scorpion [120pts]

++ Total: [4,490pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Thanks! Could you expand a bit on strategy and deployment?

Grouchy Badger · Feb 26th 2021, 8:12am

Honeym wrote:

Grouchy Badger wrote:

Glonojad wrote:

Glonojad wrote:

@Grouchy Badger : would You share a succesfull infantty list? My results with one were abysmall even for me, but I'd gladly try one as I love the 5th ed bret infantry models...

This is an old list that worked well enough. Opponents feared the infantry blocks and they gained respect.
++ Kingdom of Equitaine (Kingdom of Equitaine 2021 Beta 1) [4,490pts] ++

+ Characters +

Damsel [295pts]: Divination, Wizard Adept
. Special Equipment: Talisman of the Void, °Magical Heirloom

Duke [425pts]: Army General, Bastard Sword, Renown, Shield
. Grail Oath
. Special Equipment: Fortress of Faith, King Slayer (only on Foot), Uther's Conviction

Paladin [370pts]: Bastard Sword, Battle Standard Bearer, Piety, Shield
. Questing Oath
. Special Equipment: Blessed Inscriptions, Legion Standard, Willow's Ward (only on Foot)

Paladin [225pts]: Bastard Sword, Daring, Shield, Special Equipment
. Questing Oath

+ Core +

Knights Aspirant [225pts]: 5x Knight Aspirant

Knights Aspirant [225pts]: 5x Knight Aspirant

Peasant Bowmen [230pts]: Crossbow (4+), Musician, 16x Peasant Bowman

Peasant Bowmen [230pts]: Crossbow (4+), Musician, 16x Peasant Bowman

Peasant Bowmen [221pts]: Longbow (4+) & Braziers, 23x Peasant Bowman

+ Special +

Brigands [175pts]: 10x Brigand

Brigands [175pts]: 10x Brigand

Knights Forlorn [688pts]: Champion, 29x Knight Forlorn, Musician, Oriflamme, Standard Bearer

Knights Forlorn [601pts]: Champion, 28x Knight Forlorn, Musician, Standard Bearer

Sacred Reliquary [165pts]

Scorpion [120pts]

Scorpion [120pts]

++ Total: [4,490pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Thanks! Could you expand a bit on strategy and deployment?

that is difficult. Crossbows and the scorpions need to be able to see their targets and remain within the leadership bubble of charcters. I need to see if i can break those crossbows into smaller units. Secondly you plug characters and the reliq where you see fit, creating two large anvils that turn into a hammer: when charged you use those bastard swords as spears, get that agility and extra AP to try and dish out damage to reduce attacks if possible. Or if thats not really gonna work, weather the storm and swing back with great weapons. Once the enemy is in contact, pump it with magic for rerolls and just blender through the enemy as best as you can, characters crack skulls when able. Bowmen and crossbows whittle down advancing units, scorpions do what they do, Brigands should be killing siege weapons or harassing units on the march in. Can also be rather good redirectors.

McBaine · Feb 26th 2021, 9:59am

tulmir wrote:

Trebuchet is not a catapult, it has to be stronger than the catapult.

I didn't see that in the guidelines.

It has to be useful for something, for a reasonable price. I see no need to make it stronger than a catapult if that design isn't useful for the army. At the moment it isn't played, so, there has to be some change.

S3 AP 2 would depend on the price.

Glonojad · Feb 26th 2021, 11:45am

@Grouchy Badger: That's an interesting list indeed, I see that it still lacks M@A which explains what I did wrong previously I guess

You can no longer split X-Bows into smaller units though - the minimum size is 15 which works for bows, but not that much for X-Bows I guess.

Curiously, I don't actually own the models to deploy it - rightly so as the army contains few models from the 5th edition. I will try it with proxies I guess!

Klexe · Feb 26th 2021, 8:21pm

Glonojad wrote:

Bownen versys annoyance...well,tried that against Sylvan Elves, and I just got a freshly planted forest opposite them :p

Well yeah current bowmen are obvious not good

i meant it in theory for new book.
I would give them +8 range which already would make them the perfect anti avoidances unit

We will see what the team will do. Current rules wont help

Grouchy Badger · Feb 26th 2021, 8:56pm

Klexe wrote:

Glonojad wrote:

Bownen versys annoyance...well,tried that against Sylvan Elves, and I just got a freshly planted forest opposite them :p

Well yeah current bowmen are obvious not good :Pi meant it in theory for new book.
I would give them +8 range which already would make them the perfect anti avoidances unit

We will see what the team will do. Current rules wont help

Give them a poo bucket upgrade for poison

Potato farmer: +8'' range [stronk arms]
Carrot Farmer: Accurate [karrot gut for eyez]
Cabbage farmer: Move and shoot [propelled by flatulence]
Turnip Farmer: Front rank gets two shots [turnips do something i guess, they're a vegetable]

Glonojad · Feb 26th 2021, 8:56pm

Yeah, I took a full squad of 24 of them for the last two tourneys, encouraged by their lowered price. Long story short, tomorrow I take an army without them - I beefed 2x5 errants to 13 with Last Charge, and had some points to get a MY unit... so instead of
2x5 KE + 24 bows + 30 Forlorn
I took
13 KE (LastCharge) + 5MY + 28 Forlorn. One less redirector, one less support, one more heavy-hitter.

Balance Patch 2021 gold release notes KoE

McBaine wrote:

Kratos wrote:

Kratos wrote:

tulmir wrote:

Glonojad wrote:

Glonojad wrote:

Honeym wrote:

Glonojad wrote:

Glonojad wrote:

Grouchy Badger wrote:

Glonojad wrote:

Glonojad wrote:

Honeym wrote:

Grouchy Badger wrote:

Glonojad wrote:

Glonojad wrote:

tulmir wrote:

Glonojad wrote:

Klexe wrote:

Glonojad wrote:

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