Balance Patch 2021 gold release notes WDG

Just_Flo · Feb 18th 2021, 6:30pm

Your ACS Team wrote:

Chosen Lords and Irredeemable meatbags, we've got an update for you:

A while ago we asked for 3 things to change in our book and with a poll we choose the 3 most popular suggestions.

1. Warrior unit size change to 0-30 for a non-favoured warrior unit, 0-25 for a warrior unit with favour.
The RT gave us the thumps up for this one. It will allow us to fill core with only one unit but as this is seen as probably not the most optimal setup this was seen as "OK". Since we are a Top Tier army, there is a side-note that should it prove too strong, the change might get reversed in the next balance update (so we basically have a year to test it and see the results).

2. Change the Wasteland Dragon's limit to 0-1 army, instead of "General Only".
This change was denied as it is seen as both a balancing tool and background-motivated.

3. Change the Chosen Knight unit size to 3-6.
This was also denied. The game-wide guidelines are that a large cavalry-type unit can't exceed 800 points on its own (so excluding characters and banner enchantments. 6 Chosen Knights would exceed this limit.

On top of the above mentioned changes we requested, the book will get a couple more changes:

4. Favoured Champions get a 5 point discount.

5. Favour of Lust for warriors get a +1 ppm. increase.
With the discount on command group options (including the 5 point champion discount) this should still leave this popular choose in a decent spot.

6. Exalted Herald get a small price increase.
The External Experts flagged the Exalted Herald for being too strong for its price.

7. Character mount limits changes: Karkadan mount limit will be changed to 0-4, Skywheel will be 0-3.
Some mount limits were missed and some were too harsh.

All in all we have had quite some changed for the coming year.
Share your thoughts with us but as always keep it constructive.

Shukran · Feb 18th 2021, 6:49pm

Link to download?

Nothing to add. Just need to check points for list

Traumdieb · Feb 18th 2021, 6:56pm

Now a big one unit sloth core with an entropic aura lord will be the standard to see for a year.

jirga · Feb 18th 2021, 7:00pm

Traumdieb wrote:

Now a big one unit sloth core with an entropic aura lord will be the standard to see for a year.

Why you think that will happen?

Traumdieb · Feb 18th 2021, 7:02pm

jirga wrote:

Traumdieb wrote:

Now a big one unit sloth core with an entropic aura lord will be the standard to see for a year.

Why you think that will happen?

Because you can. Its the only possible core deathstar with protection from magical weapons. Entropic aura is a funbreaker by itself. Now with 25 halberd, t5 and two attacks dudes.

jirga · Feb 18th 2021, 7:10pm

Let's see in December if you were right then. Somehow I'm not sure that slow moving expensive brick is going to dominate lists this year.

Traumdieb · Feb 18th 2021, 7:13pm

Its just hillarious when bottom armies like get even crapier in comparison year after year and a top tier armies gets buffs like this after a deserved nerf.

Also great that the testing time is an entire year because there is no possibility to return to the old rule after three or four months.

Shukran · Feb 18th 2021, 7:14pm

One question i would like to ask is

If HE were top tier as wdg
Why did they get so many changes and discounts?

I mean a discount is a discount, but our champs were overpriced compared to other armies. Then we got EH price raise which is still a r5 4+/4++ dude.

Kaitin · Feb 18th 2021, 7:17pm

Woah, that's one more request than was expected to be satisfied!

Still sad about dragon. I guess I should glue some bolters on him and play 40k.

WastelandWarrior · Feb 18th 2021, 7:50pm

Thanks for the extra 5 warriors. Appreciated

umbranar · Feb 18th 2021, 8:28pm

Shukran wrote:

One question i would like to ask is

If HE were top tier as wdg
Why did they get so many changes and discounts?

I mean a discount is a discount, but our champs were overpriced compared to other armies. Then we got EH price raise which is still a r5 4+/4++ dude.

This is the official statement about the HbE changes:

Q: Doesn't such a change break the RT's own guidelines on changes? It looks like the HBE just got a massive number of buffs.
A: 3 raised "concerns" did not mean 3 individual points changes: the RT is free to make any number of changes to address the concerns being brought forth. The HBE received the same number of "change requests" as every other army and the scope of the change is actually fairly narrow. The project doesn't count change requests in terms of points: for instance, the HBE Prince can be taken in 27 configurations, and when it went up 5 points each time in the last two patches, that isn't "27 nerfs" (the number of configurations the Prince can be taken in). Instead, the project focuses on finding major areas of concerns, and finding the simplest implementations for correcting them.
Q: This seems unfair, it looks like HBE got an exception.
There were requests for various groupings of entires (i.e. points reduction on all wyverns, runic banner duplication limits, weapon options on goblins, harbinger mounts, bombardier units big and small, and countless more). A lot of these requests resulted in more than one individual point value being changed. HBE Prince related changes may be the most extreme one (in terms of number of tweaks needed) but this is largely due to it being character option (very few characters brought up over all).
Note also how both of these include point increases as well as decreases. All self-imposed nerfs do not count towards Change Requests, and the HBE submitted a self-imposed Nerf by increasing the base points for a Prince's Spear. This change is did not count towards the cap of 3.

Nasion "Demon" · Feb 18th 2021, 8:33pm

Just_Flo wrote:

Display Spoiler

Your ACS Team wrote:

Chosen Lords and Irredeemable meatbags, we've got an update for you:

A while ago we asked for 3 things to change in our book and with a poll we choose the 3 most popular suggestions.

1. Warrior unit size change to 0-30 for a non-favoured warrior unit, 0-25 for a warrior unit with favour.
The RT gave us the thumps up for this one. It will allow us to fill core with only one unit but as this is seen as probably not the most optimal setup this was seen as "OK". Since we are a Top Tier army, there is a side-note that should it prove too strong, the change might get reversed in the next balance update (so we basically have a year to test it and see the results).

2. Change the Wasteland Dragon's limit to 0-1 army, instead of "General Only".
This change was denied as it is seen as both a balancing tool and background-motivated.

3. Change the Chosen Knight unit size to 3-6.
This was also denied. The game-wide guidelines are that a large cavalry-type unit can't exceed 800 points on its own (so excluding characters and banner enchantments. 6 Chosen Knights would exceed this limit.

On top of the above mentioned changes we requested, the book will get a couple more changes:

4. Favoured Champions get a 5 point discount.

5. Favour of Lust for warriors get a +1 ppm. increase.
With the discount on command group options (including the 5 point champion discount) this should still leave this popular choose in a decent spot.

6. Exalted Herald get a small price increase.
The External Experts flagged the Exalted Herald for being too strong for its price.

7. Character mount limits changes: Karkadan mount limit will be changed to 0-4, Skywheel will be 0-3.
Some mount limits were missed and some were too harsh.

All in all we have had quite some changed for the coming year.
Share your thoughts with us but as always keep it constructive.

First, dont think this patch is game breaking by any means.
But honestly there is nothing that makes me happy.

1.Warrior unit size is nice and feels competitive but I personally dont care much.

2. Wasteland Dragon is becoming shelves standard and there is no will even try to fix that eve when it get so high on desired change list, that is sad.

3. Another change that doesnt get trough not because it would break anything game-wise or competitive-wise or list building but because of some "internal guidelines".
So if CK gets cheaper and it fit limit then you will allow? When another units (felldraks for example) get more expensive and exceed that limit you will reduce unit size?

P.S. To me it feels tottaly unreasonable argument (Guideline) here that will get ignored immediately when you get to this edge with another unit.

4. Well that is nice.
For my lists it means it will exactly balance 10 pts EH increase

5. Yes i think so.

6. EH that was already on the price edge get even more expensive. 10 pts is not much but with our expensive characters it makes list building even harder.

7. Karkadan limit is great for guy with 4 riders of apocalypse, dont know anyone else who would field more than two anyway.
P.S. can someone post me competitive list with more than 3 skywheels?

Great and one of the most important point is missing here and that is destiny call rework to be able on skywheel once again!

Happy Aspid · Feb 18th 2021, 8:38pm

Kaitin wrote:

Woah, that's one more request than was expected to be satisfied!

Still sad about dragon. I guess I should glue some bolters on him and play 40k.

Nah. Just let it fall to obscurity. Then, after many years of oblivion, you will be able to suddenly bring this worthless being on the table for pure shock factor - WODG actually have dragon! Just imagine the faces of your opponents.

GorillaConda · Feb 18th 2021, 8:41pm

The ExH increase is silly.

The warrior cap going up to 25 favored and 30 plain is fair.

The dragon I’m meh on.

The rest of the changes seem small.

Chosen Knights needed a price decrease anyway. So them not being able to go to 6 max is a nonissue anyway.

I understand people think WoDgs are top-tier, but that isn’t the case. I think it is truly a regional meta opinion. Warriors get crushed regularly in our meta. Anything elf is top tier. We also have a demon player that makes demons look all world lol.

umbranar · Feb 18th 2021, 8:47pm

GorillaConda wrote:

I understand people think WoDgs are top-tier, but that isn’t the case. I think it is truly a regional meta opinion. Warriors get crushed regularly in our meta. Anything elf is top tier. We also have a demon player that makes demons look all world lol.

The data seems to say otherwise but its both a combinations of populairity and result. The data crunch should be ready and available in about 2 weeks.

Kaitin · Feb 18th 2021, 8:48pm

Happy Aspid wrote:

Kaitin wrote:

Woah, that's one more request than was expected to be satisfied!

Still sad about dragon. I guess I should glue some bolters on him and play 40k.

Nah. Just let it fall to obscurity. Then, after many years of oblivion, you will be able to suddenly bring this worthless being on the table for pure shock factor - WODG actually have dragon! Just imagine the faces of your opponents.

... so, any time now?

Happy Aspid · Feb 18th 2021, 8:48pm

umbranar wrote:

GorillaConda wrote:

I understand people think WoDgs are top-tier, but that isn’t the case. I think it is truly a regional meta opinion. Warriors get crushed regularly in our meta. Anything elf is top tier. We also have a demon player that makes demons look all world lol.

The data seems to say otherwise but its both a combinations of populairity and result. The data crunch should be ready and available in about 2 weeks.

Question - was EH so popular that "external experts" decided that it should go up in price?
(I have missed analysis for entry popularity for last year)

umbranar · Feb 18th 2021, 8:51pm

Unfortunately I dont know the exact "ins and outs" but I'm sure that what the External Experts said and the actual data must be close in order for this increase in price get into the book.

azra · Feb 18th 2021, 9:05pm

Happy Aspid wrote:

umbranar wrote:

GorillaConda wrote:

I understand people think WoDgs are top-tier, but that isn’t the case. I think it is truly a regional meta opinion. Warriors get crushed regularly in our meta. Anything elf is top tier. We also have a demon player that makes demons look all world lol.

The data seems to say otherwise but its both a combinations of populairity and result. The data crunch should be ready and available in about 2 weeks.

Question - was EH so popular that "external experts" decided that it should go up in price?(I have missed analysis for entry popularity for last year)

I was very surprised that its price did not increase during the first update, it is in 2/3 of the list that we have seen.

Balance Patch 2021 gold release notes WDG

Balance Patch 2021 gold release notes WDG

Your ACS Team wrote:

Traumdieb wrote:

jirga wrote:

Traumdieb wrote:

Post by Zamo (Feb 18th 2021, 7:03pm).

Shukran wrote:

Just_Flo wrote:

Your ACS Team wrote:

Kaitin wrote:

GorillaConda wrote:

Happy Aspid wrote:

Kaitin wrote:

umbranar wrote:

GorillaConda wrote:

Happy Aspid wrote:

umbranar wrote:

GorillaConda wrote:

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