The Ninth Age is the coolest game in the world – why aren’t there more people playing it?

deadbuc · Apr 11th 2021, 1:47am

bas_2312 wrote:

Remy77077 wrote:

It's cool you're enjoying writing your own homebrew BG lore Koronus (and I've read bits of it already), but from a T9A project perspective, it would be even cooler to work with the project to create things useful for it too.

But it's up to you (and anyone else in the community) ofc if they want to, no worries if you prefer not to.

But then it's a bit weird to me when people complain they want more lore or art etc but then don't contribute or even engage with the things that are already there.
Doesn't even have to be joining "official teams" and stuff if you don't want to, there's loads of "homebrew BUT it fits with existing T9A lore perfectly" cool stuff being written for the Cravenlands campaign right now for example by various authors who've wanted to contribute there. Check it out!

The Cravenlands

There's just so little fluff available to the public (I keep hearing there is appartly a Lore book that circulates behind the scenes) that it's almost hard not to add to the stuff that's already there...
When the Orc fluff is basically "There are different kinds of Orcs, maybe the Savage ones are younger?" then everything I would write about Orcs could fit into the 9th Age lore?

On the other side it's hard to completement the stuff that's already there if you have to dig through 20 magazines (what's T9A White Dwarf called again?) to actually find snippets of the background.

From my side of the screen it just seems like the 9th Age team is a complete incrowd. Every topic like this ends up in a discussion between the heads of teams of the projects, with the main message being "We know the story, but we choose to tell very little about it".

Is the only way to actually get to know about the 9th Age fluff to apply for the Background team?

the-ninth-age.com/factions/orc…fluff=15#pagination_fluff

You have the Orc Lore at the bottom of this page, or every army. Wheter it is enough or not it is up to you

Remy77077 · Apr 11th 2021, 1:49am

@bas_2312 I was about to say, it's all on the website now! But Casp & Deadbuc got there first

I'm not a head of any team or anything and I don't know any more BG than is on the website... I do agree it's hard to write like "fan fiction" in T9A world right now, especially for armies that don't have a LAB yet like OnG, but there IS some pretty cool stuff there, like 2 clicks away from you on the main website.

There's also this BG wiki linked at the top of this forum ->
the-ninth-age.fandom.com/wiki/The_9th_Wiki

But as I say, some people who also don't know any more than has been published are making it work in the Cravenlands campaign anyway (but yeah agree OnG are in an especially bad spot right now).

deadbuc · Apr 11th 2021, 3:01am

Remy77077 wrote:

There's also this BG wiki linked at the top of this forum ->
the-ninth-age.fandom.com/wiki/The_9th_Wiki

That is what I was looking for, that is the kind of fluff I like

Remy77077 · Apr 11th 2021, 4:06am

deadbuc wrote:

That is what I was looking for, that is the kind of fluff I like

Awesome

Yeah it's a great job there of collating various sources from T9A lore!

I'd also like to add to this that once again, don't forget it's a volunteer project. Don't make the "category error" of treating this like a commercial product.

I think the lore there is, some I've read that I love, other bits I've seen that are not to my personal taste - either way it's pretty darn amazing that people have taken so much time and effort to put this stuff together and write this stuff! It doesn't annoy me at all that people who've put their own time, effort and skills into this are ahead of the public knowledge (and mine!) on all of this - of course they would be, they wrote the stuff! I'd rather thank them for the labour of love hard work they have done! And I am sure everyone, including myself and also the BG writers would love for more of it to be released quicker, but once again - it's a volunteer project. If you want to help speed any part of the process up, you know how! (eg: I helped out collating the OnG lore together to put on the website. No I wasn't part of any team for it, I just saw a thread discussion and offered to help. For many factions I think they are still waiting for someone to offer to help?).

T9A already far surpasses many commercial products in the BG and lore it does have imo. Even the existing OnG lore (which tbh is the only lore I personally care about!), as sparse as it is currently, is already better than many I've seen (especially if my theory of how T9A OnG "work" biologically is correct, then I'll really love it!)... admittedly that's partly a statement I can make because I think lots of OnG BG in other fantasy worlds is so bad! :GobboShudders:

Koronus · Apr 11th 2021, 7:55am

Eldan wrote:

Koronus wrote:

ow and my stories contain eight planets, three realities, two suns and a comprehensíble way to travel from world to world. I sugest you start reading with 'The true story'. Enjoy!

Eh. Honestly, starting by ripping off the Age of Sigmar instead of trying to make a cohesive world just doesn't appeal to me.

Hmmm, that's quite an accusation. What do you mean by that? The realms? They are more of a spiritrealm and a realm of the dead beyond reality.
Or the planets? They have more similiarities with 'Storm the chronicles of Pandarve' or 'the dragon riders of Pern' then the flat-landscapes-under-a-cheese-stulp that is the Age of Sigmar.

Vamp87 · Apr 11th 2021, 8:35am

VisconteDimezzato wrote:

Can we please clone a couple of @DanTs to serve under PR please?

I've got some bad news...

no cloning

Casp · Apr 11th 2021, 12:32pm

Remy77077 wrote:

it's a volunteer project. If you want to help speed any part of the process up, you know how! (eg: I helped out collating the OnG lore together to put on the website. No I wasn't part of any team for it, I just saw a thread discussion and offered to help. For many factions I think they are still waiting for someone to offer to help?).

I jump on the opportunity to try to recruit people to finish this task !

I can see KOE, ID , DL, UD, VC, WDG still need to be done !
If there is volunteer please contact me :p

deadbuc · Apr 11th 2021, 9:03pm

Casp wrote:

Remy77077 wrote:

it's a volunteer project. If you want to help speed any part of the process up, you know how! (eg: I helped out collating the OnG lore together to put on the website. No I wasn't part of any team for it, I just saw a thread discussion and offered to help. For many factions I think they are still waiting for someone to offer to help?).

I jump on the opportunity to try to recruit people to finish this task ! :DI can see KOE, ID , DL, UD, VC, WDG still need to be done !
If there is volunteer please contact me :p

I might want to help on VC in a month , once my personal life settles a bit

Frumious · Apr 12th 2021, 5:30am

Eldan wrote:

I mean, ask yourself a simple question. When you first played a Wargame (Warhammer or not), how did you decide which army to play?

1) Cool models
2) Cool artwork
3) Cool fluff
4) Googled tournament scores
5) Read and understood the rules, then decided on a promising-looking playstyle

it’s so true, one of the selling points I tell tell people is that having the rules separate from the miniature supplier is that you can build an army you love and not worry about the rules turning them into paper weights.

Keeping good internal balance is super important to this.

Also the internet tournament mentality of distilling every list to its optimal build only hurts. While some builds are better, the variance between these optimal and variants is not that high... and miles better then this games ancestor. I’m not sure this gets across, and it’s something that casual players really appreciate... Being able to pick the models they want to paint, and generally knowing it will be pretty balanced verse what their casual opponents wants to play.

Of course reading the forums and seeing people decry all the “unplayable” units you would never believe this. Their tends to be so much over reaction, and I understand we have a lot of competitive players, but the seems to have be what the forum culture is, and has made me just avoid many threads.

BlackLobster · Apr 12th 2021, 1:59pm

To start with a little bit of personal wargaming history..

I am primarily a Warhammer 40K player. Like many I come from an almost predominantly Games Workshop background. My experience with fantasy wargaming began about ten years ago with WFB 7th edition. I have some friends in our local gaming club who were very big into playing it. One even frequented multiple WFB tournaments here in the UK every year. I tried it once and after that one game gave up. Wasn't for me. I came back under 8th and did get into the game but swiftly gave up due to overly complicated rules, overpowered armies and a magic system that was way OTT. Since then I have tried AoS and KoW but neither grabbed me nor our former WFB player base.

At the start of 2020's lockdown here in the UK I became aware of something called Warhammer the Old World and I thought I would take a look. Wasn't overly impressed but stayed on the FB group to look at the cool armies. Someone mentioned T9A - a game I had not heard of. I looked into it and although at this time I have yet to get a game in to actually play it, I have fallen in love with what appears to be a better balanced rules system, more generic armies and a support style magic system. I've even been able to get some of the old WFB guys interested once we can get some games in, with others interested to see if the main guys pick it up. Something I am sure they will once they try T9A.

The point is, even I who read a lot about wargaming and hobby gaming online had not heard of Ninth Age prior to a random comment on a FB group for a completely different system. I know that this is effectively a sort of fan made game based on a much loved system but I really think something needs to be addressed to make it more visible. I'm going to try and promote this to my local club more as the lockdown ends. Hopefully I can build just as great a T9A community locally as I have a Warhammer 40K one.

But to pick up on some comments in this thread:

1. The world and fluff of T9A.
I know the team behind the game is holding back, letting bits out here and there but if I am honest, that isn't a great way of doing it. It has been said before and I've said it many times on these forums, you guys need a more fleshed out setting. Not released to us as letters and stories, but I detailed world in the way that Warhammer and fantasy RPGs present in their rules. The world is part of what draws people into non-historical wargaming. Having a fleshed out world will help draw people in.

Right now though, to draw old Warhammer players in I am just promoting the rules system to them. I've said we can still pay it as The Old World but without named characters and different dark gods. It might work for them because then they still feel they have some connection to the world being played but for new wargamers, they are going to want to know the world they are playing in.

2. Art and photos.
The artwork presented so far is great. No grumbles at all. I also agree that the finished army books and rulebook could do with some photos of battles in progress. Visually wargaming looks great and helps draw people to at least ask what people are playing or to pick up a book.

3. Print copies.
Last summer I had a local print shop print and bind a copy of the rules for me. It cost me £20 GBP. That was one sided with a spiral spine and a clear plastic sheet as a cover. I'd be willing to be pay £30-£40 GBP for a proper hardcover copy if it also included that Magic rules document. Maybe look at print on demand for the rules and finished army books?

4. Don't be a Warhammer clone.
I fully disagree. I would bet that a great many players of T9A are former WFB players who wanted to stay with a beloved system. A dead system eventually dies off. T9A keeps the Warhammer legacy alive. I probably would not be here if the game was not a continuation of WFB on some level.

5. Promoting the game.
We, the players, can only do so much. We can promote on a local level and we can talk online in the right places. There was mention that promotion should come from the community and not the team behind the game. I politely disagree. You guys probably don't have an advertising budget but maybe get some game banner/links posted up on wargaming sites, store sites (if they do such a thing) or maybe even contact podcasters and see if they would like to do a Q&A/interview about Ninth Age? Something like that.

Ninth Age is obviously popular with those who play it and frequent these forums. We'll never be as big or popular as anything GW put out that and that's fine. Ninth Age is it's own animal and should stand on it's own feet even if we compare it WFB a lot. But something needs to be done by all of us, to try and get the name out there.

DanT · Apr 12th 2021, 2:07pm

(not commenting in staff role)

Frumious wrote:

Also the internet tournament mentality of distilling every list to its optimal build only hurts. While some builds are better, the variance between these optimal and varients is not that high... and miles better then this games ancestor. I’m not sure this gets across, and it’s something that casual players really appreciate... Being able to pick the models they want to paint, and generally knowing it will be pretty ballanced verse what their casual opponents wants to play.

Of course reading the forums and seeing people decry all the “unplayable” units you would never believe this. Their tends to be so much over reaction, and I understand we have a lot of competitive players, but the seems to have be what the forum culture is, and has made me just avoid many threads.

Can I get an "Amen"?!

I couldn't agree more... and the behaviour you refer to absolutely baffles me.

There is just no perspective on these forums in this regard, and the animosity that some posters direct towards the project/staff as a result of this lack of perspective is absolutely staggering.

In my view, this is the biggest problem t9a has to tackle. I dread to think how many players are put off the game by the public forums (I appreciate this is a slightly different question to "").

@BlackLobster
I guess on some level your point is that the project needs to be advertised locally and globally?
Because e.g. you personally would never have been reached by "local" advertising (because none of your local group had heard of it or play it).
That is probably true :thumbup:

But I guess my point is that that is still fundamentally down to the community to do these things too; the project simply doesn't have the resources.
Community members need to spread the word, ask podcasts to cover the game/invite someone on, bring it up on other wargames sites, etc etc.
If people want to volunteer to do these things, I am sure the project will liase, and maybe make you all staff and create a group for you all to share ideas and support each other.
But fundamentally, most of the volunteers are already giving what they can/are prepared to give, so it needs to be new people doing the things that people think need doing.

VisconteDimezzato · Apr 13th 2021, 12:28pm

BlackLobster wrote:

5. Promoting the game.
We, the players, can only do so much. We can promote on a local level and we can talk online in the right places. There was mention that promotion should come from the community and not the team behind the game. I politely disagree. You guys probably don't have an advertising budget but maybe get some game banner/links posted up on wargaming sites, store sites (if they do such a thing) or maybe even contact podcasters and see if they would like to do a Q&A/interview about Ninth Age? Something like that.

While I agree with @DanT on the role of community, I'm nonetheless interested in your feedback, since we're also "restructuring" our PR.

As you noted, we don't have budget for advertising, and we'll never have (at least, this is what I think). There are already several podcasts and video content creators producing things within T9A, both on youtube and twitch.

The biggest issue to me is how to reach different communities (not only wargaming, but "fantasy" lovers in general, meaning both tabletop and rpg and alikes). Social Medias are extremely important on this, but they require a lot of effort and at now we don't have really the manpower to follow them closely.

BTW, any ideas and "network connection" with the outer wargaming/rpg community are welcome.

On the other side, we were working on being present at the local wargaming conventions, but that's up to local staff members (I was working on Play Modena, the biggest convention in ITaly, while others were working on Essen, but then the pandemic came).

I myself back in 2016 tried to advertise the game in local stores in Rome, but well... here in Italy stores sell only Games Workshop and they don't allow a free ruleset to enter the stores, even if it brings more customers.

Little Joe · Apr 14th 2021, 1:11am

VisconteDimezzato wrote:

...

I myself back in 2016 tried to advertise the game in local stores in Rome, but well... here in Italy stores sell only Games Workshop and they don't allow a free ruleset to enter the stores, even if it brings more customers.

So we charge them and then we get access?

Money that can be used for PR campaigns ... :thumbsup:

Just making a joke here, too many factions and interests out there. We should however always aim to be a unifying factor and reach out to any other community we share interests with and beyond.

Uradel · Apr 17th 2021, 6:13pm

Sorry if this has been mentioned too many times and I am beating a dead horse but...too much emphasis on tournaments. Yes, tournaments are fun; however, where are the narrative campaigns? What about bringing back the fun, random rules for Orcs & Goblins (I know you guys are passionate about balance but O&G players tend to prefer random and crazy and don't mind if that means that sometimes bad stuff happens to their own army)? Where is the fluff and art?

Whenever I see fellow 9th Age players bring up T9A (or when I do this myself) on other gaming groups on social media, especially on Warhammer Fantasy groups, we get dogpiled by haters who call us WAACs (Win At All Costs), and other insults that insinuate that we only play 9th Age for competitive tournaments (and that therefore we are bad people) and that the game is no good for just having fun, casual games with friends.

Now of course I have played fun, casual games with friends, and I convinced my local group to do a brief campaign in which many of us were writing short stories inspired by the battles that we fought. The thing is, we found our campaign rules (I think) from the trove and it was set in the Border Princes and written for Warhammer Fantasy, not for T9A. Do we have narrative campaign rules that I just haven't found yet? Or do they still need to be written?

Tyranno · Apr 17th 2021, 6:26pm

Frumious wrote:

it’s so true, one of the selling points I tell tell people is that having the rules separate from the miniature supplier is that you can build an army you love and not worry about the rules turning them into paper weights.
Keeping good internal balance is super important to this.

Also the internet tournament mentality of distilling every list to its optimal build only hurts. While some builds are better, the variance between these optimal and variants is not that high... and miles better then this games ancestor. I’m not sure this gets across, and it’s something that casual players really appreciate... Being able to pick the models they want to paint, and generally knowing it will be pretty balanced verse what their casual opponents wants to play.

Of course reading the forums and seeing people decry all the “unplayable” units you would never believe this. Their tends to be so much over reaction, and I understand we have a lot of competitive players, but the seems to have be what the forum culture is, and has made me just avoid many threads.

This reminds me of some comments I saw from someone who I would describe as WAAC: "Everything is either OP or bad"

Meaning the people claiming stuff is unplayable might just be going "from my perspective it isn't giving me an easy win, so therefore I won't touch it". So it might not be over-exaggeration but more of a strange view of the game and people are talking past each other.

Just_Flo · Apr 17th 2021, 6:29pm

Uradel wrote:

where are the narrative campaigns? They are here and here.

Now of course I have played fun, casual games with friends, and I convinced my local group to do a brief campaign in which many of us were writing short stories inspired by the battles that we fought. The thing is, we found our campaign rules (I think) from the trove and it was set in the Border Princes and written for Warhammer Fantasy, not for T9A. Do we have narrative campaign rules that I just haven't found yet? Or do they still need to be written?
There have been various Journeys in that direction but sofar they haven't reached the finish line. It is very likely that another group of Travellers starts out to it again this year.

Shlagrabak · Apr 17th 2021, 8:27pm

Uradel wrote:

O&G players tend to prefer random and crazy and don't mind if that means that sometimes bad stuff happens to their own army

That's not true though, it's just what we used to have. When you poll people you find that "random and crazy" is only what the smaller minority wants.

See Post #1 in:
Animosity: Yay or Nay?

and post #10 in:
Unofficially poll about complexity in the OnG FAB

falanor · Apr 17th 2021, 8:35pm

Shlagrabak wrote:

Uradel wrote:

O&G players tend to prefer random and crazy and don't mind if that means that sometimes bad stuff happens to their own army

That's not true though, it's just what we used to have. When you poll people you find that "random and crazy" is only what the smaller minority wants.

See Post #1 in:
Animosity: Yay or Nay?

and post #10 in:
Unofficially poll about complexity in the OnG FAB

Thanks for this, finally some fact-based statements over some old fashioned stereotypes... I fully accept that this player or that player prefers "randomness" but hearing somebody speaking in name of "O&G players" is quite outrageous....

VisconteDimezzato · Apr 17th 2021, 8:45pm

As I stated a couple of evenings ago to @SlaveToThePyre "OnG community probably doesn't care about more competitive things, but about more OnGish things".

OnGish things are not necessarily about "randomness" and the fact that the community (probably, it's my opinion) want more "ongish" things, doesn't mean it's not competitive.

In my eyes is the "more 360 degrees hobbyist" community. It wants playability, strong identity, wide range of modelling opportunities and inspirations.

skipschnit · Apr 17th 2021, 8:55pm

VisconteDimezzato wrote:

As I stated a couple of evenings ago to @SlaveToThePyre "OnG community probably doesn't care about more competitive things, but about more OnGish things".

OnGish things are not necessarily about "randomness" and the fact that the community (probably, it's my opinion) want more "ongish" things, doesn't mean it's not competitive.

In my eyes is the "more 360 degrees hobbyist" community. It wants playability, strong identity, wide range of modelling opportunities and inspirations.

The Ninth Age is the coolest game in the world – why aren’t there more people playing it?

bas_2312 wrote:

Remy77077 wrote:

Remy77077 wrote:

deadbuc wrote:

Eldan wrote:

Koronus wrote:

VisconteDimezzato wrote:

Remy77077 wrote:

Casp wrote:

Remy77077 wrote:

Eldan wrote:

Frumious wrote:

BlackLobster wrote:

VisconteDimezzato wrote:

Frumious wrote:

Uradel wrote:

Uradel wrote:

Shlagrabak wrote:

Uradel wrote:

VisconteDimezzato wrote:

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