Speed of 9th Age Development

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  • Speed of 9th Age Development

    I saw in the news post they are thinking of working on a card game. While that is cool and all... shouldn't stuff like that be done AFTER the FABs are all done? I mean the FABs are already taking a stonking long time to do and the team hasn't exactly been clear whether or not they are parceling out the work to more volunteers. If that is the case, why is the team now launching a whole other project? That would be like me getting my main rulebook for my book series's TTRPG halfway done then launching off into a dungeon expansion book.

    I just dont get it.
    I am going to offend you. You are not going to like it. You will survive.

    Chaotic Neutral
    youtube.com/channel/UCJ9e5C1f26iuvhOA33rsFJQ

    Model Reviews with Twice the Brain Injuries!
  • I actually agree... I saw the mention of the card game and my first thought was, “was elk that’s not interesting to me,I wish the people working on the trading card game were instead working on the next lab after SA, or better yet, if they can draw and write... help finish the current ones faster”. I wonder how many other players feel the same. But maybe it’s possible that if the people working on the card game weren’t working on it, they wouldn’t be working on anything else, so why not?

    My impression, fully admitting I haven’t investigated any further, is that we’re biting off more than we can chew. At this point I’m in favor of the project just paying for artists and extra writers, and no I would not ask to be paid for all the art I've already done. I just want art and background in a world we can draw info form, so we’re all on the same page and see a model and recognize who that is in T9A world, instead of having to make everything up on our own. But right now we just have an instruction manual.

    I also think the model agnostic thing hurts us a bit. If one empire army looks like a one thing, and another one looks like something totally unrelated, there will never be a connection between those two players, and the only thing uniting that community will be the rules.

    My gaming group has a couple current staff members, myself included, and former staff members. And honestly outside of the names of factions, I don’t think we’ve ever mentioned any T9A related lore/background/names/fluff other than to try to explain updates or rule changes. In fact there’s a few that still use the WHF names of units and even some factions.

    For whatever reason, a lot of what we’ve come up with is not sticking, even me, and I think we need to focus all available resources, including time in figuring out why and fix it. Of course, only if that’s important to the project
  • Marcos24 wrote:

    Giladis wrote:

    Check the date of the "news" release ;)

    Just_Flo wrote:

    TCG was this years April fool.
    yeah so was the Giant supplement
    On my time zone its a day before our april 1st

    I am going to offend you. You are not going to like it. You will survive.

    Chaotic Neutral
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    Model Reviews with Twice the Brain Injuries!
  • regardless he brings up a good point, we all know art and writing, and probably more so art than writing, is slowing everything down. That’s why we’re now starting to release LABs as separate pieces. But art and background are even more important to many people than the new rules. In fact a changing rules anger some people, especially when they ask why. Art and background mitigates those issues.
  • Marcos24 wrote:

    regardless he brings up a good point, we all know art and writing, and probably more so art than writing, is slowing everything down. That’s why we’re now starting to release LABs as separate pieces. But art and background are even more important to many people than the new rules. In fact a changing rules anger some people, especially when they ask why. Art and background mitigates those issues.
    Art costs money or time, and both are a hot commodity in this year. Writing can be found cheap or for free, but art is gonna need a paypig. Even then I still believe there could be a lot more members added to teams in order to get these FABs/LABs out quicker instead of still being confined to a too thin straw.
    I am going to offend you. You are not going to like it. You will survive.

    Chaotic Neutral
    youtube.com/channel/UCJ9e5C1f26iuvhOA33rsFJQ

    Model Reviews with Twice the Brain Injuries!
  • April Fool's aside, it'll depend on where the bottlenecks are. If there are sufficient good people to cover the necessary roles of a LAB team and work well together, and sufficient support from Layout, Translation, etc to get the products out without backlogging, and enough Project Management to keep all the elements moving together, then fantastic to keep adding more elements.
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  • ferny wrote:

    April Fool's aside, it'll depend on where the bottlenecks are. If there are sufficient good people to cover the necessary roles of a LAB team and work well together, and sufficient support from Layout, Translation, etc to get the products out without backlogging, and enough Project Management to keep all the elements moving together, then fantastic to keep adding more elements.
    But those people that work on the additional elements could potentially work on LABs instead
  • Marcos24 wrote:

    I actually agree... I saw the mention of the card game and my first thought was, “was elk that’s not interesting to me,I wish the people working on the trading card game were instead working on the next lab after SA, or better yet, if they can draw and write... help finish the current ones faster”. I wonder how many other players feel the same. But maybe it’s possible that if the people working on the card game weren’t working on it, they wouldn’t be working on anything else, so why not?

    My impression, fully admitting I haven’t investigated any further, is that we’re biting off more than we can chew. At this point I’m in favor of the project just paying for artists and extra writers, and no I would not ask to be paid for all the art I've already done. I just want art and background in a world we can draw info form, so we’re all on the same page and see a model and recognize who that is in T9A world, instead of having to make everything up on our own. But right now we just have an instruction manual.

    I also think the model agnostic thing hurts us a bit. If one empire army looks like a one thing, and another one looks like something totally unrelated, there will never be a connection between those two players, and the only thing uniting that community will be the rules.

    My gaming group has a couple current staff members, myself included, and former staff members. And honestly outside of the names of factions, I don’t think we’ve ever mentioned any T9A related lore/background/names/fluff other than to try to explain updates or rule changes. In fact there’s a few that still use the WHF names of units and even some factions.

    For whatever reason, a lot of what we’ve come up with is not sticking, even me, and I think we need to focus all available resources, including time in figuring out why and fix it. Of course, only if that’s important to the project

    Grouchy Badger wrote:

    Marcos24 wrote:

    regardless he brings up a good point, we all know art and writing, and probably more so art than writing, is slowing everything down. That’s why we’re now starting to release LABs as separate pieces. But art and background are even more important to many people than the new rules. In fact a changing rules anger some people, especially when they ask why. Art and background mitigates those issues.
    Art costs money or time, and both are a hot commodity in this year. Writing can be found cheap or for free, but art is gonna need a paypig. Even then I still believe there could be a lot more members added to teams in order to get these FABs/LABs out quicker instead of still being confined to a too thin straw.
    Hi there guys,

    these things have been addressed before, but since they are relevant, and they will always be, I'm happy to share my point of view, or better, as I see things from behind the scene.

    • Side projects: this issue I've personally explained, really, a hundred times in my gaming community, and I know perfectly why it keeps coming. How the staff and processes inside T9A work is not always clear to the wider community. But it's quite simple in reality: on one hand, side projects are handled by staff not deployed on other projects. Now, a second question can come out: "if you have free staff members, why don't you employ them on the next FAB?". The answer is because the fact we have a lot of people in a specific funcion (such as "Game design" doesn't mean we have so many in other connected functions. The most easy example is RT: RT as a team should answer to questions and protocols from different TTs (in this period: ID, DE, VS, KOE, + three or more supplements TT, and asap SA TT). If you ask "Why don't you expand the RT?" the answer is more or less that the more people we have in a pivotal team such as RT, the most probably their processes are going slower, and for sure the whole project would present more incoherencies. (At least, this is my interpretation. I would ask @Mr.Owl and @Grimbold Blackhammer if they have time to expand on this if they can).

    • On the other hand, side projects help staff members to vent their creativity. Many of you strongly believe that being staff members (particularly in Game Design, RT, Background and Art) means simply to bring your own thing into the project, but this is a superficial and incorrect interpretation, as @Marcos24 surely know. Being member of these team is, first of all, a matter of soft skill: you should be able to change your creations constantly, to make them better, to make them more compliant with the general policies, and, to address the matter for lore in particular, this project is not mine, nor of any other single author/writer/designer/artist. We cannot simply impose our point of view and team working as structured in T9A is intended to develop something for a wider community. "This things to me is the best thing" is simply not enough. Nonetheless, keeping alive the creative flow of every staff members is important and side projects often allow the staff to be more creative and release some stress.
    • Now about money: I've personally endorsed in the past some kind of compromises on this matter, they have been refused and the staff explained to me why. It's a complex issue, and I'm extremely happy to read that people like Marcos would be happy to work without money even if we pay others. But on the long run, that would discourage volounteers and we would probably depend on money. Which is something I personally would hate, since I strongly believe one of the major point of T9A IS the absence of money, and that I think would hurt the project on a strategic level.
    • On the model agnosticism: this is often a matter of taste. Personally I love the high degree of diversity in modelism this gives to our project. I also think that people really into proplaying really don't feel the disconnection @Marcos24 mentioned, while more casual and fluff oriented people are so creative they ofter prefer to have "space" into the lore for their own crations. Hardcore modelists... well, give them a white paper and they will create their own empire for the sake of their creativity. Also, "brand identity" in T9A - personal opinion - is not about aesthetics. The setting allows such a diversity: we don't publish heraldry and uniforms for everything to allow some degrees of interpretations to hobbysts and we inserted for example different races of raptors to allow more model on the tabletop. I think "identity" will be generated by the lore itself and, more over, - again personal opinion - by legendary deeds, battles and characters, that we'll surely see in the future.
    I know that probably these answers don't satisfy you but... well try to appreciate the effort :thumbsup:

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    The post was edited 3 times, last by VisconteDimezzato ().

  • Marcos24 wrote:

    ferny wrote:

    April Fool's aside, it'll depend on where the bottlenecks are. If there are sufficient good people to cover the necessary roles of a LAB team and work well together, and sufficient support from Layout, Translation, etc to get the products out without backlogging, and enough Project Management to keep all the elements moving together, then fantastic to keep adding more elements.
    But those people that work on the additional elements could potentially work on LABs instead


    I guess it depends on specifics then. Maybe labs need more support from background, or art which isn't available, etc. Meanwhile, a largely autonomous team working on something else could exist in parallel?

    That said, I think we're getting to the point where more LABs could be worked on in parallel. The work on LaTeX has made layout for slims at least quicker. Translation seems to be doing a phenomenal job. I'm never quite sure where BGT and ART are, but having one dedicated member embedded within a team as whamme was with ID seems to decentralise the work and should hopefully mean the same number of people can get more work done semi autonomously in the same time. The key thing which I think is likely to fundamentally cap turnover, assuming other issues can be cleared first, will be availability of art.
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  • Currently 3 LABs (ID, DE, KoE) are worked on and the work on a 4th (SA) is in preparation. So in my perspective we allready work more in parallel than in the past (WdG and DL). If and how that can be sped up more we will see and work on.

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  • Just_Flo wrote:

    Currently 3 LABs (ID, DE, KoE) are worked on and the work on a 4th (SA) is in preparation. So in my perspective we allready work more in parallel than in the past (WdG and DL). If and how that can be sped up more we will see and work on.

    Display Spoiler

    A jackal, O Karna, residing in the forest in the midst of hares regardeth himself a lion till he actually sees a lion.




    Armies of Fluff: because narration is important - a blog about fluffing your army.
    Armies of Fluff: repository of my unofficial short stories and excerpts

    :WDG_bw: :VC: :O&G: :EoS: :BH: :DE: :KoE:
  • Just_Flo wrote:

    Currently 3 LABs (ID, DE, KoE) are worked on and the work on a 4th (SA) is in preparation. So in my perspective we allready work more in parallel than in the past (WdG and DL). If and how that can be sped up more we will see and work on.
    Yeah its called adding more people to the team so the work gets done faster.
    I am going to offend you. You are not going to like it. You will survive.

    Chaotic Neutral
    youtube.com/channel/UCJ9e5C1f26iuvhOA33rsFJQ

    Model Reviews with Twice the Brain Injuries!
  • Grouchy Badger wrote:

    Just_Flo wrote:

    Currently 3 LABs (ID, DE, KoE) are worked on and the work on a 4th (SA) is in preparation. So in my perspective we allready work more in parallel than in the past (WdG and DL). If and how that can be sped up more we will see and work on.
    Yeah its called adding more people to the team so the work gets done faster.
    As far as designing goes going above a certain number of people, has the opposite effect as it takes that much longer to conduct discussion and come to agreements. It then takes more time for various reviews to take place if there is more of them while adding more people to do reviews only prolongs works as there are now more people doing reviews that need to hold discussions among themselves before giving feedback to teams doing the work.

    Suffice to say there is no shortage of people willing or capable of doing mechanics design, yet there is a severe lack of people needed to transform those written designs into publications - graphic designers and artists. The Project is always happy to recruit more of those.

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