Unit by Unit comparisons across army books

Slayer Zabojcow wrote:

BTW
15 HBE Archers 235 points
15 3+ shots S3 AP0 30" range
Martial Discipline

15 DE Auxiliaries 230 points
30 3+ shots S3 AP0(1 on short range) 18" range
Shields
Academy Training
Suppressing Volley
Ruthless Efficiency
March and Shoot

Looks like +12" range is really, really, really expensive

Slayer Zabojcow wrote:

BTW
15 HBE Archers 235 points
15 3+ shots S3 AP0 30" range
Martial Discipline

15 DE Auxiliaries 230 points
30 3+ shots S3 AP0(1 on short range) 18" range
Shields
Academy Training
Suppressing Volley
Ruthless Efficiency
March and Shoot

Looks like +12" range is really, really, really expensive or Martial Discipline need to get nerfed

Slayer Zabojcow wrote:

BTW
15 HBE Archers 235 points
15 3+ shots S3 AP0 30" range
Martial Discipline

15 DE Auxiliaries 230 points
30 3+ shots S3 AP0(1 on short range) 18" range
Shields
Academy Training
Suppressing Volley
Ruthless Efficiency
March and Shoot

Looks like +12" range is really, really, really expensive or Martial Discipline need to get nerfed

Memnite wrote:

12" range on a shooting unit is the main stat, and they are a tiny-bsb for themselves, less need for Ld/BSB bubble. I think the HBE ones are better. 18" is basically charge range for many things, and short 9" is charge range for everything.

I guess we could use the Aux as a combat block, that application they are better than Archers

Slayer Zabojcow wrote:

Memnite wrote:

12" range on a shooting unit is the main stat, and they are a tiny-bsb for themselves, less need for Ld/BSB bubble. I think the HBE ones are better. 18" is basically charge range for many things, and short 9" is charge range for everything.

I guess we could use the Aux as a combat block, that application they are better than Archers

Auxiliaries need 1 shooting phase and 1 stand and shoot reaction to make same damage as HBE archers shooting for whole 4 shooting phases, whatsmore Auxies are way, way, way stronger in CC due to shields, lightning reflexes, high agility, ruthless efficiency and academy training they can fight many other units and actually win, meanwhile HBE archers shoot and then die in CC giving away their points almost for free

Babnik Kalenina wrote:

Slayer Zabojcow wrote:

Memnite wrote:

12" range on a shooting unit is the main stat, and they are a tiny-bsb for themselves, less need for Ld/BSB bubble. I think the HBE ones are better. 18" is basically charge range for many things, and short 9" is charge range for everything.

I guess we could use the Aux as a combat block, that application they are better than Archers

Auxiliaries need 1 shooting phase and 1 stand and shoot reaction to make same damage as HBE archers shooting for whole 4 shooting phases, whatsmore Auxies are way, way, way stronger in CC due to shields, lightning reflexes, high agility, ruthless efficiency and academy training they can fight many other units and actually win, meanwhile HBE archers shoot and then die in CC giving away their points almost for free

It's actually other way aroundHBE archers stay safe far behind frontline whereas DE xbowmen are straight on the front line and have more chance to die.

LeXincerta wrote:

You forgot to mention Quick to fire, Volley fire and shooting from 3 ranks, no S&S malus when using covering fire, not to mention HBE Hereditary.

Minidudul wrote:

Alpha price are always right, we all know this. After all, the book is near to gold, just few small step with some +/-1 CR on some unit and it will be all right.

Memnite wrote:

I enjoy the taste of Hbe jealousy

Slayer Zabojcow wrote:

LeXincerta wrote:

You forgot to mention Quick to fire, Volley fire and shooting from 3 ranks, no S&S malus when using covering fire, not to mention HBE Hereditary.

Sea Guards got no Quick to fire and I mentioned shooting from 3 ranks and the other things in "SG rules promote large units" ;)The same way I didn't mentioned that DE Auxies got +1"adv while charging and additional rank for steadfast/disrupted purposes.
If you want to talk about spells then Auxiliaries can be really OP with Witchcraft and re-roll to wound or Twisted Effigy vs Sea Guard unit

Nemeroth wrote:

I ask again, so what? Its almost as if Legion Auxiliaries and Sea Guard are both shooty/cc units with different ways of going about it. Who knew! What are you advocating a nerf to auxiliaries? Good luck with that.

Slayer Zabojcow wrote:

LeXincerta wrote:

You forgot to mention Quick to fire, Volley fire and shooting from 3 ranks, no S&S malus when using covering fire, not to mention HBE Hereditary.

Sea Guards got no Quick to fire and I mentioned shooting from 3 ranks and the other things in "SG rules promote large units" ;)The same way I didn't mentioned that DE Auxies got +1"adv while charging and additional rank for steadfast/disrupted purposes

If you want to talk about spells then Auxiliaries can be really OP with Witchcraft and re-roll to wound or Twisted Effigy vs Sea Guard unit

Slayer Zabojcow wrote:

Nemeroth wrote:

I ask again, so what? Its almost as if Legion Auxiliaries and Sea Guard are both shooty/cc units with different ways of going about it. Who knew! What are you advocating a nerf to auxiliaries? Good luck with that.

I am not advocating any nerfs at all... just making their rules in line with other core shooting units or at least reflect those rules in price

Nemeroth wrote:

Slayer Zabojcow wrote:

Nemeroth wrote:

I ask again, so what? Its almost as if Legion Auxiliaries and Sea Guard are both shooty/cc units with different ways of going about it. Who knew! What are you advocating a nerf to auxiliaries? Good luck with that.

I am not advocating any nerfs at all... just making their rules in line with other core shooting units or at least reflect those rules in price

But different core shooting units have different jobs, Maybe sea guard are overpriced.

Ivar K wrote:

Duel between HbE Archers and DE Auxiliaries.

Open field. 30" between and HbE got first turn.

HbE turn 1. 15 shots, 7,5 hits, 3,75 wounds, after armour 2,5 dead DE.

DE turn 1. DE marches towards HbE, no shots.

HbE turn 2. 15 shots, 7,5 hits, 3,75 wounds, after armour 2,5 dead DE.

DE turn 2. Marches on, stops just before HbE short range. 20 shots, 6,666 hits, 3,333 wounds. 2,777 dead HbE

HbE turn 3. 12 shots, 6hits, 3 wounds, 2dead DE.

DE turn 3. Moves to short range. 16 shots, 8 hits, 4 wounds. 4 dead HbE.

HbE turn 4. 8 shots, 5,333 hits, 2,666 wounds. 1,777 dead DE

DE turn 4. 12 shots, 8 hits, 4 wounds. 4 dead HbE.

HbE turn 5. 4 shots, 2 hits, 1 wounds. 0,666 dead DE.

DE turn 5. 10 shots, 5 hits, 2,5 wounds. 2,5 dead HbE.


Do at least in open area DE Auxiliaries win the duel. With terrain the situation could turn to either one. The first two volley of HbE are crucial. From short range the armour and AP make most of the difference.

Slayer Zabojcow wrote:

Ivar K wrote:

Duel between HbE Archers and DE Auxiliaries.

Open field. 30" between and HbE got first turn.

HbE turn 1. 15 shots, 7,5 hits, 3,75 wounds, after armour 2,5 dead DE.

DE turn 1. DE marches towards HbE, no shots.

HbE turn 2. 15 shots, 7,5 hits, 3,75 wounds, after armour 2,5 dead DE.

DE turn 2. Marches on, stops just before HbE short range. 20 shots, 6,666 hits, 3,333 wounds. 2,777 dead HbE

HbE turn 3. 12 shots, 6hits, 3 wounds, 2dead DE.

DE turn 3. Moves to short range. 16 shots, 8 hits, 4 wounds. 4 dead HbE.

HbE turn 4. 8 shots, 5,333 hits, 2,666 wounds. 1,777 dead DE

DE turn 4. 12 shots, 8 hits, 4 wounds. 4 dead HbE.

HbE turn 5. 4 shots, 2 hits, 1 wounds. 0,666 dead DE.

DE turn 5. 10 shots, 5 hits, 2,5 wounds. 2,5 dead HbE.


Do at least in open area DE Auxiliaries win the duel. With terrain the situation could turn to either one. The first two volley of HbE are crucial. From short range the armour and AP make most of the difference.

So HBE got 1st turn, DE unit is on the open field and in range of HBE archers so they even don't have to move to get in range to shot them and they are positioned on ideal distance of 30" so Auxiliaries don't shoot after their first turn and DE unit don't use any of their melee rules that they should pay for and they still win against HBE shooting unit with 1/3 of auxiliaries left ? That's what we call balance!

LeXincerta wrote:

Yes. If you compare units out of the whole picture. 2 Marches mean you are countercharged with something designed for CC. and while you can couse some dammage you will most prabobly loose the auxyliaires, while Archers are safe to put more damage from range in comming turns.