VS LAB Alpha first impressions

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  • VS LAB Alpha first impressions

    Since the rat is out of the bag, I suppose it is time for this. I will be posting more threads shortly, so please hold your responses if they don't fit here, there will be a place shortly.

    This thread is for first impressions, initial feedback, that sort of thing.

    Discussion will not be allowed in this thread and will be deleted. [link to be inserted for discussion thread]

    Link to video:
    Please leave your assassins at the door.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by ValourUnbound ().

  • My thoughts?

    There are a lot of very cool very fun looking rules.

    That being said, it looks like half the book is seriously underpriced for what it puts on the table.
    “You can never know everything, and part of what you know is always wrong. Perhaps even the most important part. A portion of wisdom lies in knowing that. A portion of courage lies in going on anyways.” -Lan Mandragoran, EotW


    Dovie’andi se tovya sagain.
  • Ah, too much negativity. I need to realize that it might be appreciated to also hear positive things from the community. I know it's easier to criticize the things one does not like than praising the good things. But still:

    Very good work so far, Kudos design team. Things I like very much:

    Res2
    1/2 CR
    Tunnel Markers
    Exploding Tunnel Markers
    Eagle Chain
    Dictator making units unstable
    No Wizard master
    Experimental Weapon Teams
    Drilling Team
    Slave Tunnel tools
    Doomspark Device
  • With every new book that comes out, my disappointment at the constraints and red tape we had to work under with the WDG book grows.

    But this book is a thing of beauty in my books, and shows how much the systems we use have matured during the years. Some will call it overloaded, but I'll call it colorful and exciting.
    Life is hard when you're a skeleton
  • My .02 cents... Its a super cool design that is quite unique in the T9A world. No matter how the balance tweaks play out, it is certainly going to shake up the T9A meta.

    I was initially disappointed to see such a large departure from the previous book, but after thinking through some list ideas, I think there is a ton of fun potential here. There seem to be quite a few different playstyles supported here and I am excited to try them out. Old models are not invalid, they just have new roles.

    For those crying OP, they might be right, however, this army is so different than anything else in T9A to date, its really hard for me to comment on it without playing it. It is something we really have not seen before, so it will probably take some time and a lot of games to get the balance correct. I suppose everyone should be patient with the balance process and be open minded as there will surely be a number of iterations over the next couple of months. - I trust the balance team to eventually get this right. Hopefully not too much of the flavor is lost in the process.

    Anyway, I am both sad and excited. Sad to see the old book that I am still enjoying go, but excited to try out some new ideas!
  • Palmu wrote:

    With every new book that comes out, my disappointment at the constraints and red tape we had to work under with the WDG book grows.

    But this book is a thing of beauty in my books, and shows how much the systems we use have matured during the years. Some will call it overloaded, but I'll call it colorful and exciting.
    Maybe we’ll get to tweak WDG at the halfway point of LaBs :thinking:
    B. "MF’ing" Jones - CGL Member

    D.L.- ADT - TT

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    Adv. Magic & Giants Design

    PlaytestTeam-Mid Atlantic USA

    Vermin Swarms LAB TT

  • I absolute love the phrase "Trial and Terror". It is one of the most amazing names I've ever seen in a game. Love it!


    Also, I really love the roman theme. Sometimes it is quite heavy handed like "eagle banner" which proably should be a more verminlike creature but the general theme overall is awesome. I feel kind of inspired and I want to start a VS army.


    Now I've gone through a little more and I agree with the reviewer that some stuff should not be. Mostly the 23" charge chariot and the rotary guns right now. i have doubts about letting the triumvirate being wizard masters as well, I think they should be more of pumped adepts. I kind of fail to understand how designers didn't see this from the get go. I mean, it is something which can be perfectly analyzed from a theoretical perspective. It doesn't need to be tested in game. :)

    A rule which lets you shoot into close combat, while having huge unit size of your own is never a good design idea. Combined with life is cheap it might be too much.

    I like thE lack of rank bonus = leadership now. It makes the army a little less stable. I like the formations for the elite rats. I like conditional special rules when the player have to do something to achieve the bonus.

    The main infantry seems quite ok for me as well. It might be a little crazy with the combat-boosting character but time will tell. I like that there are very few chaff or re-directors. It makes the army a little more infantry centric and less monster mashy.

    The post was edited 4 times, last by Davian ().

  • The video was also quiet negative, and while a lot of this makes sense, it makes it quiet hard to watch. At time it devaluates what this game stands behind. There has been a very negative vibe in the community with the perceived power level of the book. My negativity is sort of the same as with the ID book, too many special rules and artifical synergies which always end up either being removed or end up being list building restrictions.

    Get the proper book out.

    So far I see that RAA are the same ppm as the current version. Why does everyone perceive infantry to be the new hotness when infantry will be and always remain infantry, something that has readily available to counters. Can we start to field (apart from using slaves) 4x60 rats and then a small bunker/scoring in core now?
  • I feel like the Roman Theme is a little heavy handed. Both Eagle Standard and Bread & Games naming feel like they are pulled directly from a history book rather than rolled into the T9A world. I’m really looking to the background team to pull this as far away from Rome as possible.
    "It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by will alone I set my mind in motion."
  • Davian wrote:

    Bogi wrote:

    At time it devaluates what this game stands behind. There has been a very negative vibe in the community with the perceived power level of the book
    The way I see it, almost all negativity has been about a very select few things. The overall reception and discussion has been great. It is just those 3-4 things that most negative people seem to argue about.
    There are other media apart from this forum, which seems to be positive. I fear it's the same positivity that ID players had for their first iteration.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Bogi ().

  • BlackLancer wrote:

    My .02 cents... Its a super cool design that is quite unique in the T9A world. No matter how the balance tweaks play out, it is certainly going to shake up the T9A meta.

    I was initially disappointed to see such a large departure from the previous book, but after thinking through some list ideas, I think there is a ton of fun potential here. There seem to be quite a few different playstyles supported here and I am excited to try them out. Old models are not invalid, they just have new roles.

    For those crying OP, they might be right, however, this army is so different than anything else in T9A to date, its really hard for me to comment on it without playing it. It is something we really have not seen before, so it will probably take some time and a lot of games to get the balance correct. I suppose everyone should be patient with the balance process and be open minded as there will surely be a number of iterations over the next couple of months. - I trust the balance team to eventually get this right. Hopefully not too much of the flavor is lost in the process.

    Anyway, I am both sad and excited. Sad to see the old book that I am still enjoying go, but excited to try out some new ideas!
    “Might?”

    Come on this book is OTT and exacerbates the power creep that T9A has said they “have eliminated” from game (is it a surprise that every new book is seen in the top 5 of the points median at tourneys?) it makes 8th edition Skaven look tolerance.

    Inherent design handicaps aren’t handicaps if they have inter (artificial), intra and synergies that by pass this very game mechanics. Why even write them into the book in the first place?

    I think a new creative zeal/blood needs to be brought in within the LAB for VS. Ideas that can be unique, but also not broken. And those that have implemented these ideas either let go, or limited in actionable effect on future VS LABs editons.
    I type on mobile so my spelling mistakes can hide that English is my native tongue. :write: :HE: :KoE:

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