VS LAB Alpha Name discussion

This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our Cookie Policy.

  • VS LAB Alpha Name discussion

    Hi There

    Like most of you I've been reading the new Alpha VS booklet. I noticed I was having difficulty reading the rules while I was distracted by the names of the units in de book. I can tell a lot of work has ben put in the redesign of the book. The rules have been given a lot of thought. The names however are not wel suited for the army. Especially the roman theme with things like eagle standards don't seem to match the disease spreading rat folk. Fluff is important to me. It's a large part of the game. I'm just not feeling this one.

    Looking at de the definition of vermin:

    "harmful or objectionable animals that are difficult to control"
    "wild animals that are believed to be harmful to crops, farm animals, or game, or which carry disease"

    The Roman names have a clear Roman reference. While this is fantasy and anything goes, my head can't stop making comparisons. I just cab't see well organized roman names fitting well with the mishapping, disease spreading, difficult to control vermin. Also, not all units have been given a roman name. The list names lack constancy. The help the VS team, I've come up with a counter-proposal: new names. Step 2: Rename the rules in de VS Apha book. I'm curious about the opinion of other players.

    AlphaProposal
    CharactersCharacters
    Ruinous dictatorRuinous dictator
    Vermin senatorSwarm leader
    Bloodfur commanderBlackfur commander
    House prefectRakachit Mechanist
    Swarm priestPlague Prophet
    Duskblade assasinDuskblade assasin
    Pretorian pananquinHulk bodyguard
    Triumphal platformVermin Throne
    Sacred platformWar platform
    Whispering bellSqueaking bell
    Pestilent PulpitPestilence pendulum
    Core: Core:
    Vermin VelitesFootpads?
    Vermin LegionariesVermin warriors
    Blackfur VeteransBlackfur Veterans
    Vermin SlavesVermin Slaves
    Special: Special:
    Shadowfur StalkersShadowfur Stalkers
    Plague disciplesPlague disciples
    Giant RatsGiant Rats
    Fetthis BrutesVermin Hulks
    Mumillo brutesThunderhulks
    Legionary drilling teamSwarm drilling team
    Tunnel GunnersTunnel Gunners
    Ignifier GrenadiersVermin bombardiers
    Experimental weapon teamExperimental weapon team
    Doomspark devicesDoomspark Dreadmil
    Vermin ArtilleryVermin Artillery
    Bread and GamesBuilt and bred
    Stygian EarthbreakerVerminous horror
    Dreadmil chariotsDreadmil chariots
    Arena beastMonsterous rat
  • von Lichtenstein wrote:

    Hi There

    Like most of you I've been reading the new Alpha VS booklet. I noticed I was having difficulty reading the rules while I was distracted by the names of the units in de book. I can tell a lot of work has ben put in the redesign of the book. The rules have been given a lot of thought. The names however are not wel suited for the army. Especially the roman theme with things like eagle standards don't seem to match the disease spreading rat folk. Fluff is important to me. It's a large part of the game. I'm just not feeling this one.

    Looking at de the definition of vermin:

    "harmful or objectionable animals that are difficult to control"
    "wild animals that are believed to be harmful to crops, farm animals, or game, or which carry disease"

    The Roman names have a clear Roman reference. While this is fantasy and anything goes, my head can't stop making comparisons. I just cab't see well organized roman names fitting well with the mishapping, disease spreading, difficult to control vermin. Also, not all units have been given a roman name. The list names lack constancy. The help the VS team, I've come up with a counter-proposal: new names. Step 2: Rename the rules in de VS Apha book. I'm curious about the opinion of other players.

    AlphaProposal
    CharactersCharacters
    Ruinous dictatorRuinous dictator
    Vermin senatorSwarm leader
    Bloodfur commanderBlackfur commander
    House prefectRakachit Mechanist
    Swarm priestPlague Prophet
    Duskblade assasinDuskblade assasin
    Pretorian pananquinHulk bodyguard
    Triumphal platformVermin Throne
    Sacred platformWar platform
    Whispering bellSqueaking bell
    Pestilent PulpitPestilence pendulum
    Core:Core:
    Vermin VelitesFootpads?
    Vermin LegionariesVermin warriors
    Blackfur VeteransBlackfur Veterans
    Vermin SlavesVermin Slaves
    Special:Special:
    Shadowfur StalkersShadowfur Stalkers
    Plague disciplesPlague disciples
    Giant RatsGiant Rats
    Fetthis BrutesVermin Hulks
    Mumillo brutesThunderhulks
    Legionary drilling teamSwarm drilling team
    Tunnel GunnersTunnel Gunners
    Ignifier GrenadiersVermin bombardiers
    Experimental weapon teamExperimental weapon team
    Doomspark devicesDoomspark Dreadmil
    Vermin ArtilleryVermin Artillery
    Bread and GamesBuilt and bred
    Stygian EarthbreakerVerminous horror
    Dreadmil chariotsDreadmil chariots
    Arena beastMonsterous rat

    +1

    Think I can't say it enough times, you hit the point and the names! :thumbsup:
  • But what's the real problem? I like the theme, and the Roman Empire and the spread of rats through Europe actually go together really well. As in, the Romans have been 'credited' for providing the trade infrastructure that spread rats and subsequently, plague.

    Also the Vermin Swarms spiritual predecessors were also hierarchical slave-societies divided in clientelist clans marching to battle in well-ranked large legions. I think the Roman connection is a good balance between innovation and working with what's already there (and what miniatures people may have already).
  • not say a word how all our community dislike this Roman style,
    there are still some real problem with naming and translating to Russian for example:

    - Bloodfur commander.
    Why he is blood fur? may be the meaning his hands in blood?
    Than must be Bloody Bloodhanded or similar.. no?

    - Swarm. there is most discussions here.
    Doest that meaning swarm like swarm of insects? Or swarm like animal band?
    This quite different meaning in our language. Better you call it "Vermin Hordes".
    Less space to argue at least.

    Vermin Velites …Footpads SURE

    Fetthis Brutes Vermin Hulks - better you keep them Vermin Ogres
    you will not break GW license and players would be satisfied too
    Another Fettis sounds ugly at some languages, trust me.

    Mumillo brutes Thunderhulks - at least change Mumillo to Gladiator, this more known term

    Ignifier Grenadiers Vermin bombardiers
    and also change term '"deepfire". There is no near meaning in some languages.
    Crazy hard to translate well.

    Doomspark devices Doomspark Dreadmil
    just Dreadmill is also quite good

    Arena beast Monstrous rat - super!
  • New

    Why do the names have to be translated anyway?
    I don't quite understand, my name is Ian, that is what I would be called by anyone in any language because it is my name.

    Also relating to words such as 'swarm' there will always be done language somewhere that will have trouble with pretty much any word.
    I really really like the word swarm, it triggers exactly the right images in the mind that this army is portraying.
    At the end of the day if you want to use the word horde when translated to Russian then who's going to care but you shouldnt expect the English to change the names to suit translation.
  • New

    On what basis do you assume the entire community hates the Roman names? I like it, most review videos I've seen like it, all my friends like it, quite a lot.

    And the thing to keep in mind, which every piece of fluff emphasizes strongly is that the Vermin are not Roman. They are post-Roman. They are the barbarian horde that has destroyed Rome and are now using the names without understanding them, to make themselves sound important. The announcement fluff article is very clear on that, as is the main rulebook and the world hymn. They are the Lombards calling themselves Rex Romanorum or the Franks and Seljuks appropriating the title Kaiser, not actual Romans.

    Also, several of the names you propose get the fluff and mechanics of those units. Yes, I think the whispering bell is not very mechanically interesting currently, but with the effect it has and the spell it casts, it's very clear it has a silencing effect, it doesn't squeak.

    And reusing any GW name like rat ogre is a no-go.

    Also, several of the names you translates are categories. YOu can't translate House Prefect as Rakachit Mechanist. It also includes Prefects of other houses. Unless you want the Stygians and Fetthis also be part of House Rakachit. The Rakachit Mechanist is right there. Same for hte Swarm Priest. Swarm priests aren't just plague prophets. They include orthodox priests too, along with the heterodox ones of the plague cult. It also includes what used to be the normal prophet. Former plague prophets are now priests of Errahman, which I think is a much better name than just Plague Priest: it gives the god and religion a name and immediately puts them in a place in the world. The name tells you that this is a priesthood worshipping a different god from the rest of vermin society, and it tells you that god comes from a different culture, in the far east. "Plague" could be anything. "Errahman" immediately tells you that it is Persian and Indian inspired.

    Also, Ive anything, I'm sad we seem to have lost House Sicara. That was a good name.
  • New

    LordNelson wrote:

    But what's the real problem? I like the theme, and the Roman Empire and the spread of rats through Europe actually go together really well. As in, the Romans have been 'credited' for providing the trade infrastructure that spread rats and subsequently, plague.

    Also the Vermin Swarms spiritual predecessors were also hierarchical slave-societies divided in clientelist clans marching to battle in well-ranked large legions. I think the Roman connection is a good balance between innovation and working with what's already there (and what miniatures people may have already).
    Don't forget that their capital city, Skavenblight, was created from the fall of Tylos, the setting's equivalent to Rome.
  • New

    Twisted Magpie wrote:

    Why do the names have to be translated anyway?
    I don't quite understand, my name is Ian
    1. You might be surprised, but names have historically been translated as well. E.g. German Heinrich = Italian Enrico.
    2. Not every unit name is a "name name". An unit called "Dread Knights" of course needs translation. Nobody in that unit has the name "Dread Knight". It's an umbrella term so to speak of. So naturally the translation will translate "dread" and "knight" into the specific languages.
    3. You might not remember the GW WHFB 8th Edition rulebook of the Wood Elves, which did exactly that: Keep all unit names untranslated. I think the reception was less than euphoric.


    Back to OP:
    I totally dislike the OP's list and think the one from our LAB is far better and more evocative.

    Tool Support Battle Scribe

    DE Community Support


    My blog with battle reports and painting gallery: bleaklegion.wordpress.com/
  • New

    Yeah roman is fine. Nothing wrong with it really. It is clearly a sub par choice to feudal Japan. This would be the only setting really suitable for vermin, not only because of the easy link to actual units but because of how life is actually cheaply portrayed.
    However you don't really need a real world setting and the real world background should simply be more subtle then it is now, no matter what is chosen. It should not be present in names.
  • New

    I wouldn't say Japan fits especially well? I mean, maybe the Sengoku Jidai, but clearly not the Shogunate era. Far too peaceful. Too much politics from the top, too, not from the bottom.

    Rome has the advantage of having a gigantic, constantly starving, unemployed urban population that makes a perfect model for Vermin society. As do client politics. And theatrics. Romans loved their thatrical politics to impress the plebs.
  • New

    Twisted Magpie wrote:

    Why do the names have to be translated anyway?
    I don't quite understand, my name is Ian, that is what I would be called by anyone in any language because it is my name.

    Also relating to words such as 'swarm' there will always be done language somewhere that will have trouble with pretty much any word.
    I really really like the word swarm, it triggers exactly the right images in the mind that this army is portraying.
    At the end of the day if you want to use the word horde when translated to Russian then who's going to care but you shouldnt expect the English to change the names to suit translation.
    let me explain
    T9 team try make some BACK, right?
    if this back no translation to other languages, than what use in it? Lets call them "unit #1" and "unit #2"?

    so we have to translate and do that well considering all Back articles already existing...
    but because of pour naming ideas, sometimes its quite hard make nice Back on our native language

    hope BACK team consider my suggestion
  • New

    My main concern is that a roman theme lacking creativity. Why not build your own history? The fluff can still create that, even with the roman names. But people like me keep comparing them to romans. My beast herds are spartan themed. Because the beast herds have neutral names, the army gives me the freedom to be creative. The VS are allready labeled. 2. The roman theme covers only half of the army. 3 the argument roman histority fits because the ruled the world like a plague is very far fetched. Why not use Napoleon? At least we didn't allready use Napoleon in another race.

    My list is just a proposal. Amy neutral name works for me. If this sticks, I'll have to call my general 'ludicrus raticus' .

    Be creative :)
  • New

    Alkasar wrote:

    Twisted Magpie wrote:

    Why do the names have to be translated anyway?
    I don't quite understand, my name is Ian, that is what I would be called by anyone in any language because it is my name.

    Also relating to words such as 'swarm' there will always be done language somewhere that will have trouble with pretty much any word.
    I really really like the word swarm, it triggers exactly the right images in the mind that this army is portraying.
    At the end of the day if you want to use the word horde when translated to Russian then who's going to care but you shouldnt expect the English to change the names to suit translation.
    let me explainT9 team try make some BACK, right?
    if this back no translation to other languages, than what use in it? Lets call them "unit #1" and "unit #2"?

    so we have to translate and do that well considering all Back articles already existing...
    but because of pour naming ideas, sometimes its quite hard make nice Back on our native language

    hope BACK team consider my suggestion
    I dunno, I'm pretty far in translating into German currently, it works pretty well. Only came across two problematic names so far, and those are being changed.
  • New

    von Lichtenstein wrote:

    My main concern is that a roman theme lacking creativity. Why not build your own history? The fluff can still create that, even with the roman names. But people like me keep comparing them to romans. My beast herds are spartan themed. Because the beast herds have neutral names, the army gives me the freedom to be creative. The VS are allready labeled. 2. The roman theme covers only half of the army. 3 the argument roman histority fits because the ruled the world like a plague is very far fetched. Why not use Napoleon? At least we didn't allready use Napoleon in another race.

    My list is just a proposal. Amy neutral name works for me. If this sticks, I'll have to call my general 'ludicrus raticus' .

    Be creative :)
    It's not about them ruling the world like a plague. It's a combination of the urban Roman lower class being very vermin-like, late Republican politics being a great mining ground for political intrigue that is straight out of Skavenblight (Gracchi, Marius, Sulla...) and that our Vermin, again are not primarily Roman. They are post-Roman. They are vandals, goths, franks, huns, seljuks, byzantines more than Romans.
  • New

    arwaker wrote:

    Eldan wrote:

    Twisted Magpie wrote:

    Why do the names have to be translated anyway?
    Because many players don't speak English and they want to play the game too? I'm sure that half the players in my club at least wouldn't look at an English rulebook.
    We have the books translated?
    Yes? Half a dozen languages now, I think. I know we have German, French, Russian, Spanish, Italian, Polish and Chinese, perhaps a few more.