Essence of War - Let's Talk Listbuilding! (EW:Advanced)

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    • interesting. how do you feel about the magic phase?
      to recap (maybe this is useful for new players):

      with a single spell, it means that half of the flux cards are at your advantage, specifically with cards I II III (3 active dice vs 2 reactive dice, 4 vs 2, 5 vs 2).

      with the other half of cards you're actually at a disadvantage. since the cards are IV: 5 vs 4, V: 6 vs 4, VI: 7 vs 4, the only way you have an advantage on the opponent is to take risks and use 5 dice for the spell. this means increased chances of miscast - you could lose HP, or lose your only spell, and in that second case you'd also reduce the advantage you'd have when drawing cards I II III !

      i understand that an Adept Soothsayer is 125+75pts, and with double Cyclops (300+300) you have maxed out the Character+Support category (800 max), and cannot buy anything else.
      i also understand how you might want to have the Battle Standard, especially since you'd only have Discipline 8, and since your army wants to pass Discipline tests (because of Primal Instinct - note however that Cyclops dont have it).

      so i guess that from a design point of view, this is good. you cannot have it all - cyclops, discipline, magic, maybe two of those together, but not all three. we want people to craft varied rosters, so... i guess that's reassuring : )

      now, independent of the issue of number of spells, your question on points use in building...
      it's true that with 800 points left + with 400 required for core + none usable for Characters you'll be a bit limited.

      for one, you cant take any special above 400pts, so no 3x2 minos (450pts).
      then in special you can range from 0 to 400, and since each special unit is at least 225pts, it means you can only take one.

      i would choose that one (if any) first. can be as high as the full 400pts of 5x2 Centaurs, or as low as the 225pts of 5 Centaurs (or 3 Minos). once that's done, you can pad with Core. provided you dont have specific requirements there, i think you can pad it in so you use all points:

      400 5x2 Centaurs +
      125 5x3 Mongrel Herd
      125 7x2 Mongrel Raiders
      150 5x3 Wildhorn Herd
      (400 Core)


      225 5x1 Centaurs +
      275 7x5 Mongrel Herd
      100 5x2 Mongrel Raiders
      200 5x4 Wildhorn Herd
      (575 Core)

      so i think that as long as you're willing to compromise, you can use all 1600pts.
      but talking of compromises, i find very interesting to think of your "Selection Process",
      at least in this scenario where
      - you have unlimited access to miniatures

      - you emphasise fun (double-Cyc)
      - you dont have clear strategic needs (no plan for Core)
      the way i see it, these would be the steps:

      (0) im playing at 1600pts
      400 min Core
      800 max Character+Support

      (1) i want two Cyclops, cos it's fun
      600 pts Character+Support

      (2) i can spend max 200pts on Character,
      cheapest Mino Chief is 225, so it has to be a Soothsayer
      725 pts Character+Support

      (3) for the army to work, i need this upgrade for my character...
      this is where you might say BattleStandard, i might say Adept, not really crucial what you decide, but it kind of needs to be chosen at this point. this is because:

      (3a) all 75 pts of Soothsayer upgrades: i have 1600 - 800 - 400 (core) = 400 pts available for special
      ---> i can only field 1 Special unit (ranging from 225 to 400pts)

      (3b) no upgrades: i have 1600 - 725 - 400 (core) = 475 pts available for special
      ---> i can field 2 Special units (of 225 pts each)

      i would like to take THIS decision before anything else, i guess.

      then, it remains to be seen if you have any strict requirements for Core. for example, if you want to make sure that your Soothsayer has a parent unit -> you'll need at least one unit of 25x25mm wildhorns. but unless you have too many other boundaries to respect, i think you can easily pad 400-575pts of Core with no wasted points.

      curious to see what you end up deciding!

    • Thanks so much for the detailed feedback, @piteglio! Lots of good stuff to unpack there!

      It is worth saying that I've already committed to the list above, and that I'm certainly not unhappy with it. But, here are a few responses to your thoughts.

      I see how a 1 spell magic phase is not particularly advantageous, but you know how I roll spells to begin with, so 5 diceing isn't much of an issue. :D I know that for that spell I'll always have a dice advantage, even if I risk miscast, and leave a few dice on the table on cards 5 and 6. (This is the biggest downfall of only 1 spell, you leave dice behind. It makes me a little sad, but that's how the list "works". We'll see if it ACTUALLY works tomorrow, hehe)

      Considering it now, I might have gone with a Druidism Apprentice for Healing Waters. Since the Cyclops already have a natural 5+ aegis, one could see that as an efficient/synergistic SINGLE spell setup, as then I can add that same protection to one of my 4 additional units. But it's really a moot point because I planned to go for an offensive buff with Shamanism or Evocation. Ultimately I decided to finally try out Spectral Blades from Evo because of the synergy with Primal Instinct.

      Core-wise, I'm actually quite happy with what I'm getting despite "overspending" by 175. Especially since we've covered the fact that I can't really change it much. Getting 400pts of Core would've been easy if I just went with 2 blocks of 5x4 Wildhorns, as they are 200pts each. But, I wanted the 6x4 Wildhorns as a potential Caster bunker, and I've seen how well big blocks can perform in EW:A in recent games. Also, since we're trying new things, I wanted the 5x5 Mongrel block, as none of my lists so far had featured Mongrel Herd at all. The Raiders were just the 100pt filler piece that fit at the end, but Light Troops chaff is solid, and 10 bow shots is just enough to be annoying, so I'm satisfied there. I could've gone with the

      So without giving away any of my actual plans, maybe the core idea of this list is really just "let's try that and see what happens" :D I'd like to think this is very different from the handful of BH lists I've run so far. We'll see if/how it actually performs. Wish me luck!
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    • Ah yes, list algebra: the gamer's great enemy.

      And bringing possibly the worst list to fight double Area Attack: my Death Star Åsklanders list.


      CHARACTERS 500
      Jarl 150
      Asklander Chief 100
      Seidhkennar- Master Witchcraft, 250

      CORE 450
      4x2 Asklander Horsemen 200
      7x4 Asklanders 250

      SPECIAL 650
      7x3 Huskarls 350
      2x2 Wargs 300

      So I'm a bit scared of the cyclopes, but I do have plans