Special Item Restrictions

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  • Special Item Restrictions

    One thing that makes character building and the end result a lot less fun is that there are very many restrictions for the VS Special items.
    For each type of character there are very few VS items it can take since there are so many restrictions.
    Often an item can only be taken by one or two character types. Some items are even locked to a character with a certain option taken.
    It is like the character upgrades were moved into special items instead of being a straight up upgrade in the unit entry.
    Perhaps some items can be a character upgrade instead of a special item and some other items unlocked to more characters.

    Just my opinion of users of items and the most common cases they are used.
    Some items can be used by more characters but they usually do not fit well or are just not worth it. Most of the restrictions are enforced by rules.
    Item (Users)
    Secrets of the Doom Blade (1) Bloodfur Legate.
    Swarm Master (2) Bloodfur Legate and Swarm Priest on Sacred Platform.
    Rodentium Bullets (5) Bloodfur Legate and House Prefects with pistol. This one is still very restricting when only working for a specific range weapon option.
    Plague-Hermit’s Blessing (1) Swarm Priest with Cult of Errahman option.
    Orb of Ateus (2) Vermin Senator and Rakachit Technocrat.
    Storm Rocket (2) Vermin Senator and Rakachit Technocrat.
    Tome of the Ratking (8) Any character.
    Crown of Hubris (1) Swarm Priest.
    Orator’s Toga (8) Any character.
    Map of the Deeps (2) Vermin Senator and Stygian Overseer.
    Tarina’s Lyre (2) Vermin Senator and Fetthis Fleshmaster.
    Cowl of the Apostate (1) Swarm Priest.

    Characters (Number of choices in my opinion of 12 in total)
    Vermin Senator (6)
    Swarm Priest - Errahman (5)
    Swarm Priest - Caelysian (4)
    Bloodfur Legate (4)(5*)
    Rakachit Technocrat (4)(5*)
    Fetthis Fleshmaster (3)(4*)
    Stygian Overseer (3)(4*)
    Skorchit Alchemist (2)(3*)
    * with Pistol option.

    Making Assassins not able to take special items is also unfortunate.
    A little off topic unnecessary restriction is that the only character who can join Plague Disciples are a Swarm Priest with Cult of Errahman option, which makes the unit less attractive and is only able to get better Discipline from Commanding Presence(Dis crown on Priest technically works).

    The post was edited 1 time, last by fadenye ().

  • New

    Im not sure whether what you describe is a problem at all. Yes, there are many items that are restricted to certain characters. But in my opinion most of them make a lot of sense the way it is, because otherwise it would feel somehow unflavourful.

    I think what you describe is more related to some characters not being attractive at all. The current level of restrictions in who can take which item is imho reasonable and flavourful.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by arwaker ().

  • New

    arwaker wrote:

    Im not sure whether what you describe is a problem at all. Yes, there are many items that are restricted to certain characters. But in my opinion most of them make a lot of sense the way it is, because otherwise it would feel somehow unflavourful.

    I think what you describe is more related to some characters not being attractive at all. The current level of restrictions in who can take which item is imho reasonable and flavourful.
    My point is not really about flavor and just that there are many restrictions.
    Why aren't most of the other armies items restricted to 1-2 characters.
    Either they have their flavor items not locked up or they created more generic items that more characters can use.

    If flavor is the problem there is nothing stopping some items to be reworked so they don't feel unflavourful on other characters.
    Could the Plague-Hermit’s Blessing perhaps just be named something else and be allowed to all priests. If the effect is just for Errahman you can change it to something else. You could also move the Plague-Hermit’s Blessing to an upgrade to Errahman Priest and create a new magic armor instead.
    Tarina’s Lyre, Orb of Ateus and Storm Rocket could be used by anyone, the Senator is not more adept or is has any more flavor of using a Storm Rocket then other Prefects, Legate. The restriction on those items just feels unnecessary.

    When you say some characters are not being attractive it does not help that they barely have any items to choose from.
  • New

    Ha, good catch. Hermit's Blessing is a little bit a special case. In the current form it makes sense it is restricted to Errahman Priest. But I agree it could be helpful for the game if other Priests could also have some kind of Wizard-only-Armour. But I have this opinion for a different reason than you might imply here. It is a specific case, but rather the exception. I just stated the circumstance in the main thread.

    In general I don't see an issue with certain effects tied to an item that is restricted to a certain character or two. It adds flavour to the army. It would feel just plain wrong if for example the Map of the Deeps could be taken by a Priest, while there is another character existing that is somehow dedicated to digging tunnels.

    The difference to other armies, let's take BH for example, is that they don't even have such kind of flavour-specific characters. Your idea of opening up item restrictions would make sense when there was no dedicated House Prefect character in the book. But we have a large selection of specific characters. That would be futile if anyone could take any item.
  • New

    arwaker wrote:

    Your idea of opening up item restrictions would make sense when there was no dedicated House Prefect character in the book. But we have a large selection of specific characters. That would be futile if anyone could take any item.
    You are saying it is futile to have different type of House Prefects if they could choose the same magic items?
    I would say they have enough of different rules to be to be unique without restricting the magic items and if the magic item is the only reason you are taking a specific Prefect then I think the rules of the Prefect is bad. They should stand on their own and the magic items are optional.
  • New

    House Prefects DO stand for their own. They suffer a bit of point cost and not efficient enough spexial rules. But they can be played with or without their unique item. The item exists because when you decide to play with a Prefect, your army has a certain house(ex clan) flavour. He item just allows you to even put more emphasis on this specific house. Moreover, you can also give all of those items also to a Senator, without necessity of getting the Prefect. I don't feel unnecessarily restricted by the item limitations. I think they are flavourful.
  • New

    berti wrote:

    Have you looked into the DE items too?

    Some restrictions are more subtle...enchantments only for specific kind of weapon that can only be taken by 1 charakter for example.
    I have not gone into detail with the DE items before.
    A quick look at the hard restrictions not taking into account if the item is useful.

    Enchantment (Characters) of 5 in total.
    GW(1), PW(5), Lance(3), Halberd(4) and Spear(1).
    Heavy Armor(4)
    Moithir’s Mirror(5)
    Mask of the War Crow(5)
    Ring of the Obsidian Thrones(5)
    Ceinran’s Scales(2)
    Seal of the 9th Fleet(1)
    Beastmaster’s Whistle(1)

    Hard restrictions in comparison, X items can be used by only X Chars.
    DE - Max 5 chars
    4x 1 Char
    1x 2 Chars
    1x 3 Chars
    2x 4 Chars
    4x 5 Chars

    VS - Max 7 chars
    3x 1 Char
    5x 2 Chars
    1x 5 Chars
    3x 7 Chars

    If you group House prefects as 1 char.
    VS - Max 4 chars
    3x 1 Char
    6x 2 Chars
    3x 4 Chars

    The post was edited 1 time, last by fadenye ().