Feedback for Balance Patch 2022 -- FOR BH PLAYERS

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  • 1. Suggestion: BH Hereditary
    Non-point based change
    Rationale: very situational. I like the discipline bomb aspect still with the army but it needs for several dice rolls to go your way in order for it to work. Adding evocation is enough imo for a stronger effect with -1 Disc, -1 Res. Loved the idea about turning the oppenents harnassed units to strike their own and makes the unit shaken after.

    2. Suggestion: Obscuring Fog
    Non-point based change
    Rationale: re-work completely. Either give it bonus agility by default or give it some other use e.g. lets the bearer re-roll charge rolls.

    3. Suggestion: Cyclops
    Non-point based change
    Rationale: I really love this unit. However I would love to see it gain quick to fire the turn after it has stood still for a round. Would help out the unit to advance along side the rest of the army and still provide decent ranged support.

    (Had to edit and cut the post due to request is capped at 3 requests max).
  • 1: centaurs only seems to work in units of 10, don't work for tournaments because vs elves they are dead. Too expensive and weak to use as proper fast cav or paper tigers.

    2: totems, really hard to make right choice on champion, expensive and hard to get cast. Esp without proper master mage. Champ get killed to easily. Make hereditary and totems work together.

    3: add a unit to the book. I suggest owlbears ogre like unit that has R5 low offensive ability and wizard conclave.
  • Generally I believe BH needs a full rework and badly needs to go in LAB process, as such I focus on what are IMHO the main outliers which can be fixed without a full rewrite and integrate well with the rest of the army and support its (intended?) gameplays:

    1. Centaurs
    Non-point based change
    Rationale: too RPS, any small or medium arm fire, Agility above 3, or Advance rate above 8" can safely counter them, forcing to either invest as little as possible to use them as handgrenade or chaff, or support them through druidism to give them a chance to shine. A simple solution could be to give them Arm 1 or 2 (as cavalry), which would go a long way in making them more reliable on their own.

    Also, just give them Pack Tactics - the only effect it will have is to let them benefit from Hunting Horn without having to rely on the ol' Beast & Centaur Chieftain swap. Alternatively, remove this Pack Tactics requirement from the Hunting Horn, it'll simplify the rule and only benefit Hounds & Centaurs ambush, which is rarely seen if ever anyway.

    2. Briar Beast
    Non-point based change
    Rationale: never seen, easy to counter, and not really impactful overall as it dies pretty fast (even with Res 5, being single, Def 3, HP 3 and nothing else makes it surprisingly squishy).

    Allowing it to ambush not only from Forest but also from table edge would help making it more threatening; changing its attacks to Grind Attacks (2D3) would help making it more reliably impactful, or giving it Str 5; give it Fortitude (5+) to improve its durability (somehow I always believe they have it already... but no); making it Insignificant could help too, without it they're mostly a liability.

    3. Cyclops
    Non-point based change
    Rationale: only seen in niche lists, although it fills a useful role in the army. The issue is that it is underwhelming and a big source of feel bad moments (at least for me each time I tried them, i.e. many times): they are not great in melee, and worse in shooting which pushes to use several of them to make their shooting somewhat reliably threatening. But mostly, they have as many chances to hit their target than to misfire.

    The least fix should be to give them Quick to Fire, making them "feel" more BH and letting them work in such a mobile army. That should be the big advantage of having a stone throwing giant. Then IMHO the best fixes would be to give them QtF + Misfires should also be streamlined to always cause a Malfunction + possibly reduce range to 30" (fair trade for 6" QtF).

    Tsuandan Warring States
    Cathay for T9A!
    :totems: BH LAB Homebrew :totems:
    Release your inner Beast!
  • Cyclops:
    Does not gel with the army, having to stand still and lob rocks while the rest of the army moves. Needs to be able to move and fire with the army without making himself blind.

    Briar Beast:
    A lot of setup for very little pay-off. Even with Unbreakable, it's just not got much going on.

    Hereditary spell:
    Only works if you build your list around it (aka, take the Jabberwock). That's not the sign of a good spell.

    Lord of the Hobby

    The Great Horde of Chaos <-My hobby blog Sagarikadesha, land of living gods <-My Sagarikadesha (India) homebrew
  • youngseward wrote:

    Playing Community Problems

    1. BH Hereditary - Limited use against many armies, and a very low pick rate for players. The community would prefer a spell that is more widely applicable, something that is deemed 'magical heirloom' worthy.
    2. Briar Beast - Despite the low cost, the restrictions around placing the briar beast and its meagre in game power makes it an unappealing choice. It essentially has a worse ambush rule than regular and nothing to make up for that. The community would like for it to have better ambush options.
    3. Cyclops - The lack of quick to fire and the short range make the cyclops difficult to use as a true hybrid monster/shooter. The community would like rules that allow the monster to fit in with the mobile BH style while still being a reasonably effective shooting model.

    Non-Playing Community Problems
    (There was only one post in the thread, which was more a player request than an opponent request, so the below is from the ACS’ experience over the years in what frustrates BH opponents)
    1. Eye of Dominance - Opponents feel this item is too RPS, especially against DL. It is difficult to find a satisfying cost as for BH players it will always seem overpriced whereas for DL players it will always seem too cheap.

    This is what we submitted. Obscuring Fog requests and Cyclops were pretty close, so we went with Cyclops as we felt it was the more impactful entry to get right.

    Any questions or discussions feel free to bring them to the general discussion thread here
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