The Imperial Complaints Office: Negative Feedback Thread

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  • Gunther von Kessel wrote:

    Arosy wrote:

    2. Imperial Cavalry. Checking our ASAW we have an "all cavalry" as a playstyle and First Turn Damage output as major weakness, and it's quite schizofrenik. If we want to field upgraded cavalry with lances, they cost us 50 ppm, that's the cost of WoTG knights of Ryma ones. Yes, our ones are from Core, but we don't have any alternative! KoSG are good, but they have no sence of fielding them with more than 3! Either we need to go from army with Cavalry playstyle (and it will be VERY sad), or we need to reduce the cost of additional knight a lot. MAybe, the good solution will be, that with Knight Commander they become 10+ unit and cost 20 ppm less? SO, the unit of 15 cost like 500, not 750. They are still way worse in attacking than many of the analogues.

    3. Reitars. They are used so much not because they are SO effective, but because it's the only Unit with Vanguard we have. Rangers fit the same role, but from another angle, being slower, but having Skirmishers. It's OK to have such a low numbers, because we have Special Deployment as Weakness too. But impossible to play without chaff at all, and we don;t have any flying MC or light troops heroes for cheap. Cut their effectiveness ,and we are in serious trouble.
    The problem with lance armed Imperial Cavalry as a concept is, that it is to much reminiscent to the knights of KoE and that the difference to EoS might start to blur if Imperial Cavalry is too strong. My personal wish would be to turn the Reiters into proper core front line cavalry by taking away Vanguard and giving them access to plate armour or fancy guns. This way you would have unit reminiscent of historical 17th century cuirassiers, a unit which is distinct enough from KoE. Vanguard might be provided by new Dragoons and Lancers might become an elite bodyguard or something. In this way everybody can use his models without stepping on each others toes fluff wise. Knights stay knights and EoS has interesting core cavalry. But this is just a suggestion.
    In many ways I agree with you, but we need to keep rules for all our beautifull fullplate and barding renaisance knights. I dont think they are anyway close to KoE knights as they in general have a worse statline and don't have any special rules. They are a supporting element in our army.
    And both kinds of units existed at the same time, though I think that cuirasiers/reiters were a bit more numerous in the late renaisance period.
    Reiters are good as they are and would probably become too good if they had fullplate.
    and I still believe; Light infantry should fight and shoot in 3 ranks, Imperial Guards should have weaponmaster and both parent and support, and that halbardiers should wear heavy armor. For Sunna and the Emperor!!
  • Konrad von Richtmark wrote:

    Recently had my second game under 2.0. I too can testify that the BRB change to Quick to Fire hurts reiters significantly. Previously, they could ride up to an enemy, shoot 10 S4 AP2 shots hitting on 4+, and a stand and shoot of the same with 5+ if then charged. It was enough to win against most units of enemy light cavalry, chaff or similar fast but fragile screening and harrassment units. Now, to do that, they'd not only need to shoot the first volley at long range against most things, but needing to stay further back also reduces their movement options, making them more likely to be exposed to whatever else that could hurt them, either by charging or shooting them. Reiters are high points costed compared to their survivability, and should at least be able to use their mobility to stay alive.

    Rather than reinstate old Quick to Fire as has been suggested several times, how about letting Fire on Impact! work in their first combat round regardless of whether they charge or are charged? There's no reason why shooting at point blank range as an opener for close combat would require you to be charging. It always seemed odd to me during 1.3 that you'd either get a Fire on Impact! or a stand and shoot depending on whether you charge or are charged, as the two actions represent, as far as I can tell, exactly the same thing.
    Obvious solution! :D.
    and I still believe; Light infantry should fight and shoot in 3 ranks, Imperial Guards should have weaponmaster and both parent and support, and that halbardiers should wear heavy armor. For Sunna and the Emperor!!
  • Smythen wrote:

    legionsofodin wrote:

    sorry but the giant list of special rules do plenty to differentiate empire cav from KoE cav.
    what special rules that work on knights? Are you referring to all the KoE special rules?
    lance formation (very powerful)
    Blessing ( also not bad free agis yes plz)
    Better stat line
    Stronger and faster horses.
    Oath of fealty (pretty nice for the low ld pesant units)


    KoE knights are better in Every way abd have a differnt play style there is no need to try to differentiate between the two anymore.
  • Wulfhiem wrote:

    Anyone able to weigh in on how we lost 1 Initiative, 1 Attack, and Bodyguard and only dropped 30 points? I suppose the reasoning is that these stats are now superhuman, but we have them to an even greater degree on our characters.

    On top of that, to unlock the privilege of well trained knights, we have to buy a character now.
    Yeah the Knight situation still needs addressed. Essentially, like you guessed, the old KO were deemed too good for humans, and so were removed to clear space in the special category for future expansion. I'm not saying I agree with that, but that's what the decision was.

    Knights were something we flagged as part of our feedback, and the hotfix will help, but there's still issues that need addressed. So once the hotfix is out, we'll be looking for all of your thoughts and feedback.

    I've got a big tournament at the start of march, but after that I plan to test all forms of Knight extensively in order to try and best understand the problem.

    Hope all that helps!
  • sorry, but is still a non sense. All the suggestions to improve the combat are ignored. RT only want the EoS play gunline list.
    Gunline list are good to act as shield for etc tournaments, but cannot play many of the second objectives.

    The rulebook of v2 is a masterpiece, ruined by some armybooks like Highborn Elves, Dark elves, ogre khans
    We are the Inquisition.

    We know where you live.
  • Arosy wrote:

    As I see - the gunline is a worst way to play EoS. Results from the tournaments say that Gublines perform poorly. Combune arms and Cavalry-based (it's only 1 entry though) do well.

    I do hope that more players will test interesting builds insted of powercreeping as they see it. At tournaments, or at least at home games!
    Combined arms for the win!
    Your army just needs enough shooting to force your opponents to come to you, then counterattack in close combat.
    It's okay, it has frenzy.

    Just Flank It © KoE - Tactics 101
  • Jomppexx wrote:

    Arosy wrote:

    As I see - the gunline is a worst way to play EoS. Results from the tournaments say that Gublines perform poorly. Combune arms and Cavalry-based (it's only 1 entry though) do well.

    I do hope that more players will test interesting builds insted of powercreeping as they see it. At tournaments, or at least at home games!
    Combined arms for the win!Your army just needs enough shooting to force your opponents to come to you, then counterattack in close combat.
    Which is not always possible as some armies have more possibilities to exceed you in firepower. Then all your points spent in shooters become less usefull. So where is the good limit offire power ? I can never know.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Mirdhynn ().

  • I'm not sure it's that straightforwardly simple either. My last game with such a shoot-and-counterpunch army against a fairly bow-heavy HbE army was with the secondary objective Hold the Ground, i.e. sit at the centre of the table at the end of game turns. I spent one turn marching forth to set up a kinked line, its end anchored by a piece of impassable terrain near the objective. Now, not only my gunnery but my contesting of the objective required him to advance and get stuck in. If that hadn't been the case, he could have spent a turn backing off out of my gun range and kept shooting me with his longbows.
    Sunna is not with the big battalions, but with the ones whose parts move with the best coordination.
  • Konrad von Richtmark wrote:

    I'm not sure it's that straightforwardly simple either. My last game with such a shoot-and-counterpunch army against a fairly bow-heavy HbE army was with the secondary objective Hold the Ground, i.e. sit at the centre of the table at the end of game turns. I spent one turn marching forth to set up a kinked line, its end anchored by a piece of impassable terrain near the objective. Now, not only my gunnery but my contesting of the objective required him to advance and get stuck in. If that hadn't been the case, he could have spent a turn backing off out of my gun range and kept shooting me with his longbows.

    Then mix it up with some xbows or give your soldiers the +6" shooting order.

    Else I agree yer point. I just dont trust a combined arms build that cannot protect its flanks.
    Why not hold elections for key seats? Oh! And direction of the game - that would also be hella cool :)

    Hermund Vigerust Endressòn Furu - Savage Sage of the Norse
    Faux-pro player and ETC vagabond.
    Enjoys the company of deluded nerds and women of unquestionably low morale.

    For questions of tactics, The Savage Arts of Playtrolling
  • Casp wrote:

    Herminard wrote:

    Then mix it up with some xbows or give your soldiers the +6" shooting order.

    Else I agree yer point. I just dont trust a combined arms build that cannot protect its flanks.
    Xbows yep i agree.. But +6" order... Hum since how long didnt you get out of you cave ? ^^

    It... might have been a jest at the "Accurate order is 100x better than +6"" argument. Maybe. Hard to tell. I need to pour a horn and contemplate it.
    Why not hold elections for key seats? Oh! And direction of the game - that would also be hella cool :)

    Hermund Vigerust Endressòn Furu - Savage Sage of the Norse
    Faux-pro player and ETC vagabond.
    Enjoys the company of deluded nerds and women of unquestionably low morale.

    For questions of tactics, The Savage Arts of Playtrolling
  • LostCause wrote:

    I stand by that argument you saucy sage you :beer:

    Gotta hand it to the stoic stubborn of a scot
    Why not hold elections for key seats? Oh! And direction of the game - that would also be hella cool :)

    Hermund Vigerust Endressòn Furu - Savage Sage of the Norse
    Faux-pro player and ETC vagabond.
    Enjoys the company of deluded nerds and women of unquestionably low morale.

    For questions of tactics, The Savage Arts of Playtrolling
  • In the last 2 games I played I almost vanquished one unit of my opponents in one turn of magic + shooting (maybe i had lucky dice, who knows). In the first one, a 40strong unit of VC ghouls had been scythed down to a mere dozen, in the second game a 28 strong unit of Blades of Nahb went back to the case almost completely: only 2 survived.

    Oh, I had 18 xbows with accurate almost always on, 10 handguns (what an awful name, could we rename that to muskets or arquebus, please? :P ) one mortar, one volleygun, a long rifled artificier and a Cosmo mastermage with Unity in divergence used in chaos version (which is really nasty, IMHO, especially on that low AS units).
    Despite that my cannon dice sucked really hard so... i think that can compensate for the uberperformance of the rest.
    Almost :D
    So, our shooting department is great but...
    The problem I encountered though, was about the control of the light troops/monsters of my opponents.
    The VC count had one Karstein Count on Ravenant with Stormcaller, 2 Bigger skelly bats (sorry, i know and use the old names xD) 2x8 reaper -things, cannon fodder (or, well, mortar fodder) zombies in good quantities and a lot of chaff bats.
    I used my 34 strong unit of IG, 8x4 +2 chars to threaten the beasties from shrieking here and there on my army, but i managed to achieve only a 5-15 loss after secondary objective assesment.
    The DE instead, used 5 harpy-things, an harpoon chariot, a kraken and some outriders with repeaters and stuff.
    This match was easier on the Light troops side, I could manage the whole thing a little better, but it could have gone worse, it wasn't a Light Troops-centerd list.

    I think we could use some more "chaff" Light troops control, but not in form of shooty thing, or else we'll get the hate of everybody out there.
    Maybe giving a rousing speech to our core Cavalry or Pistol wielding reiter would do the job?

    My 2cents.
    P.s.
    It's 2AM in my country, so please regard any grammar-related error as sleep deprivation for EoS sake :girltongue:

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Zakkara ().