ID 2.0 Release - Show us your Lists

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    • JordanBladen wrote:

      I’d rather be honest with the ID community than adopt a it’s all sunshine and rainbows.

      We really need your *points to all you ID heroes* feedback. Only then can we get something solid and go before the different teams and get things changed. Different countries, social groups and clubs will all have different meta. Try and break the army. Be ballsy. Go for it.

      Jordan
      This is why I have been so vocal in the past.

      I have a very MMU/Multi-deathstar heavy meta, and here ID cannot compete at all. The very concept of the army just does not work here. Which is why I felt the need to raise the point as it seemed MSU was what everyone was concentrating on. But if the game shifts to MMU I fear that the army will fail at every turn and will lose popularity and therefore people testing it; making it harder for the teams to figure out what is going wrong.

      Call it trying to avert disaster.
      Thankfully the improvements to the Titan Mortar might help shift the tide a little.
    • Army List Name: Transmutation of the third
      Army List Points: 4500
      Army List:
      - Prophet, Wizard Master, Alchemi, Shield with Willow Guard, Death Cheater, Book of Arcane Power, Infernal Weapon (625)
      - Vizier, BSB, 2HW, Steel Skin, Flaming Standart (315)
      - 2 * Hobgoblin Chieftan, Wolf, Shield, Light Armour (260)
      - 3 * 10 Citadel Guard, Flintlick Axe, Musician (900)
      - 10 Infernal Warrior, Shield, Blunderbuss, Musician (225)
      - 21 Inmortals, FCG, shield, infernal weqpon,Banner of Shamut (662)
      - 4 Annoited, Shield, Infernal Weapon, Musician (572)
      - 2 * Grenanade Launcher (340)
      - Kadim Titan (590)


      How will You Play this Army: Just to test the barebones of my 1.3 list, close shooting and 2 fast hard hiters + inmortal anvil.
    • Inverno wrote:

      Will post my list and a report/consideration of my first game last night in some hours. Many things to say, i fear some of the initial suspects about our "grindness" are real.
      Really excited to see your feedback - its what we need to make a realy change to the army whilst we're in the beta period.

      I'd encourage everyone to play games and write their thoughts down as its all useful information.
    • Display Spoiler

      CORE - 1250ptsTOT 1448pts
      30x Slaves (115 + 110 + 60 + 20)Paired Weapons 2pts/model - Musician 20pts305pts
      30x Slaves (115 + 110 + 60 + 20)Paired Weapons 2pts/model - Musician 20pts305pts
      12x Citadel Guards (190 + 46 + 108 + 40 + 35)Flintlocks 9pts/model - Music/Standard 40pts - Flaming Stand 35pts419pts
      12x Citadel Guards (190 + 46 + 108 + 40 + 35)Flintlocks 9pts/model - Music/Standard 40pts - Flaming Stand 35pts419pts
      CHARACTERS - max 2000ptsTOT 865pts
      Prophet (General)Wizard Master - 265pts485pts
      Shield 10pts - Infernal Weapon 15pts
      Dusk Forged (Armour Ench) - 50pts
      Tablet of Ashuruk (Artefact) - 80pts
      Basalt Infusion (Shield Ench) - 15pts
      Basheluk's Mechanism (Artefact) - 50pts
      Chosen of Lugar - 180ptsBSB - 50 pts380pts
      Banner of Speed - 50pts
      Lugar's Dice (artefact) - 70pts
      Dragon Staff (artefact) - 30pts
      SPECIALTOT 729pts
      22x Immortals (300 + 196 + 88 + 60 + 85)Infernal Weapon 2pts/model729pts
      Shield 2pts/model
      Champ, Musician, Standard Bearer 20pts x3
      Icon of the Inferno - 85pts
      BOUND & BINDERS - max 1750ptsTOT 1395pts
      20x Disciples of Lugar (140 + 375 + 60 + 50)Champ, Musician, Standard Bearer 20pts x3625pts
      Banner of Shamut - 50pts
      Bound Demon (Titan Mortar)90pts
      Armoured GiantSlavemaster's Whip - 35pts340pts
      Armoured GiantSlavemaster's Whip - 35pts340pts
      BARRAGE - max 1000ptsTOT 560pts
      Titan MortarBound Demon300pts
      Gunnery TeamFlamethrower130pts
      Gunnery TeamFlamethrower130pts




      I posted the list i played last nice into the spoiler above.
      Actually there may be something illegal, hope there are no cops here :P

      I played vs HBE with heavy infantry list, cannot remember exactly the numbers but it was something like this:

      30-35 Spears FC + Distracting Banner
      15 Sea Guard FC probably
      30 Lions Guard FC + Movement Speed
      25-30 Swordmasters FC + Distracting Banner
      5x Elein's reavers
      5x Elein's reavers
      1x Giant Eagle
      5x Shadow warriors (Paired weapons and narcotic fumes)
      5x Shadow warriors (Paired weapons and narcotic fumes)
      Wizard BSB with Protean Magic honour, BoAP and something else probably (he had a lot of spells)(he was in the Citizien Spears unit)
      Lord General with 2+/4++ Fireproof and Spear of wonders (he was in the Lion's Guard Unit)

      He had Oaken throne, Summer growth, Fate's Judgement, Scrying, a witchcraft spell ruining the spellcasting and shooting and his hereditary.
      I had Pyroclastic Flow, Cascading Fire, Enveloping Embers and Haze of Magnesia.

      I deployed wide, with my Prophet into Immortals in the center of the table, on each side a Gunnery Team and a unit of Flintlocks, the Titan Daemon behind them. On the right wing i had Slaves with a Giant behind them, and on the far left the BSB into Lugars. On the right, a little more distant from the rest of the army cause of a pesky impassable i deployed another slave unit and a Giant.

      He denied his flank, deployed almost everything into the ruins he had, all packed together, facing the weakest wing of my army. That was poor by me, but was late and just deployed fast to start the game and get a first round.

      Will not go turn by turn, cause i just marched forward and moved my far right wing to surround and corner them in a clinch. I eventually won, destroying is main elite blocks.

      Notable things:

      - Icon of the Inferno may be a little too much expensive, but it is really really annoying when you can cast a Pyroclastic Flow on his elves block, and then proc the Blaze on 2 different Elein reavers/light chaff. I Cleared all his chaff units and a unit of Shadow warriors, while damaging his combat uinit, with a single spell and 12 Flintlocks shoots.

      - Tablet of Ashuruk is nice, i manteined a usefull pool of 1-2 Veil token while weakening his own, eventually leaving him without the third token for his dice. Magic phase is pretty balanced, even this can help a lot. It is expensive maybe, but i had a nice experience with it, considering i had the worst flux card during the whole game.
      Paired with the Talisman of the Void and Wizard master you will generate and extra dice via veil tokens on your own every turn.

      - Immortals met a very bad fight vs his Swordmasters. They just came in, dished out 16 attacks killing 10 immortals, who retaliated with poor results: no fury for the first turn, and they had distracting + hereditary spell -> 1 Swordmaster dead. The Giant came in on my turn, flanking, disrupting and hitting at Agi 6 thanks to the whip and charge momentum, had a good roll and smashed some faces, then he stomped. Won the fight just thanks to the desperate intervetion of the big boy.
      The really funny thing is the Swordmasters ended up being more resilient than a bunch of so called Immortals.

      -Slaves and Giants with Slavemaster's Whip are a funny synergy, still eating up A LOT of space on the Battlefield. When impassable and Ruins appears everything become really clunky and hard to move. Still a nice thing, i like it, since they can move around indipendently over the table as a decent Disciplined group

      - Had no chance to try Lugars in combat since my oppo counter deployed me. This gave me the chance to test their speed across the table and they run as possessed! On the charge they reach a good Agility and boost with Shamut Banner they have OS6 + Ignore Parry. Maybe a Rending Banner can enhance them, will give it a try.

      -Haze of Magnesia is a really nice spell, low casting value and good easy to trigger effects. Pyro spells got a hit losing their AP value but stil useful for sure.
      New Cascading Fire can help you to clear small suicide unit thrown on your caster to prevent him casting missile spells: just augment your unit and blow them up, then try to fire the rest of your spell, situational but it worked.

      - Flamethrowers are nice, low cost, easy to manouvre and a pain for the opponent shooters. You can hide him, then march out, engulf enemies with flammable and pop out a double Flintlock Flaming standard salvo. I managed to double burn the flanks of his Lions: 2D6 + 8d3 s4 Ap1 is the burning elf festival.


      Talking a little about HBE:

      - Spear of Blazing Sun (is it its name?) is so strong on a full kitted Elf Lord. He wiped out 2 units of Flintlocks alone and i couldnt even scratch him.

      - Hereditary is so annoying and the fountain of youth triggering everyspell he casts is annoying too. They have strong raise turns, and im also unsure about the ruling of the deaths avoided with the Hereditary. Do they count toward Combat Score?

      - Distracting Banners on Elves are just lame. They attack first, they strike better and usually have a lot of killing power as a glass cannon should be. Giving them a 0-3 Distracting banner is just not fair, since you will have low number to retaliate and they will hit on 5s. Why they should be able to do this? We should have something like that, mitigating the casualties on first round and then start grinding. My so called grinding units were reduced from 22 to 7 when the Fury kicked in (and rolled zero 6s lol). Why not a Banner of the Black Iron (ignore AP on first combat turn)?

      -Sea guards aid fire is nice: 12" range and no penalty for S&S. Didnt do a scratch to my Dwarves but unarmoured or humanoid beings can suffer that. Not bad.

      EDIT: forgot to mention the old boy: Titan Mortar with Bound Demon. Unfortunately I could only shoot properly only on turn one, still his gigantic size, Demonic Infusion, Earthquake shells and solid Daemon stats for 390pts makes him a really bad guy. Will try a Double Mortar Daemon + Volcano Cannon + double Flaming Standard Flintlocks.
      Or Mortar Deamon + 2x Volcano Cannon + 2x Flamethrower Team + 2x Goblin Bolt throwers + 2x Flaming Standard Flintlocks. Really funny lol

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Inverno ().

    • Inverno wrote:

      - Immortals met a very bad fight vs his Swordmasters. They just came in, dished out 16 attacks killing 10 immortals, who retaliated with poor results: no fury for the first turn, and they had distracting + hereditary spell -> 1 Swordmaster dead. The Giant came in on my turn, flanking, disrupting and hitting at Agi 6 thanks to the whip and charge momentum, had a good roll and smashed some faces, then he stomped. Won the fight just thanks to the desperate intervetion of the big boy.

      The really funny thing is the Swordmasters ended up being more resilient than a bunch of so called Immortals.
      ^This is what I have been saying for a while. Elf infantry just blows us out in MMU and it didn't even take 48 hours for this to show :/.
    • Ok. That was three total games with this list and have some thoughts:

      Orc Slaves: I found that 4-5 units of them is just too much. I will probably be rolling back to 3 and two units of hobgoblins, no bows, likely just spears+Shields, possibly 25 man with full command for a trace more staying power.

      Hobgoblins: Bought them bows. Never fired them. New line of site rules and new volley rules kills bows entirely to me for 4+ base to hit guys.

      Immortals: Well, they are what you pay for. An excellent bunker unit for a character or two, but strength six attacks chopped them to ribbons, as expected. (Effectively they have a 6+ armor and are stilled wounded v that high of a strength). My first game they ground down and killed two units of UD shabti and a unit of their snake riders, but died to a man doing it leaving my poor caster on his lonesome.

      Disciples of logar. Well, they hold, period. That is a plus. Strength 4 attacks really are not damaging enough. I put the rending banner in there to make my regular attacks a bit more useful, combined with the ring to have a bit better of a reroll to hit. I would have preferred to run them with GWs and threaten real damage with them but I could not find another 130 points in the list for it. Those GWs need to come down in price, I think I am going to end up shelving the unit.

      Chosen of Logar; His role, and his sole purpose for existing is to make the DoL scoring. If you do not take them, you will not take him period.

      Flame Weapon Teams: Alright, got a bit of experimenting in with them. That 12 inch range makes it incredibly difficult to get their multiple wounds off. An ambushing unit of snake riders from UD came up next to my pair, I moved to flank and fired. We figured out that the number of total hits for a flame thrower is capped at the number of models in the unit, making it far less destructive than I thought initially looking at them. This relegates them to a purely r+f infantry killer, which we have plenty of other units which do just as well. My inital thought about using them to kill monstrous stuff is actually subpar, I got to test it on big monsters, Shabti, and Ogres. Its... A perfectly reasonable price for it's points, but the experience is going to make me shelve the Volcano cannon again as well as its even harder to position to fire, even on a bound demon to give it actual mobility.

      Rocket Battery. I tried it. Three games. Never once did it do anything approaching useful actually. 325 points wasted. Oh your opponent does not have a monster to rocket at? Well, have fun maybe having line of sight to fire at infantry with! Oh, you got 3 hits on this salamander? Well, he still has a six up save even with the strength seven, made a save? Oh hes alive still! Its a monotask weapon which is strictly inferior at its role to a strength 7-8 cannon, and costs +50% of what the cannon does. Math on him is beaten into the ground. On the plus side, at the unit of snake riders which came up on my weapon teams it did the last two wounds to finish off that unit after two weapon teams flank fired through the entire unit and left it at two wounds. *Waves fingers in sarcastic cheer*. Onto the shelf with this paperweight where he belongs. On average against an oncoming rush of movement 7 monsters, he gets one round of shooting off at long range before the enemy is in slightly above average charge range of your army. Not anywhere near threatening enough to keep the monster mash lizardman player off me. Did a tiny bit of damage to the UD player, had nothing I could shoot at with the DH. Meh?

      Making a new list. @Gomio @JordanBladen Im done with the rocket now, waste of my time.

      EDIT: I forgot to mention the new 'Battle Focus' Rule. Came up in the UD game when the unit of Immortals had a unit in it's flank and front. Rolled three sixes, got three extra hits. Yay. I made three charges that game which would have been strength six. = (
    • New list:

      4500 Points Test List #2
      Characters 950
      Prophet, Wizard Master (Alchemy) 620
      Shield, Kadim Binding, Mask of the Furnace, Magic Heirloom

      Vizier 330
      Steel Skin, Banner of Shamut, GW, BSB

      Core Points Used 1150
      4x Orc Slaves 175
      Musician, Shield

      2xHobgoblins 225
      25 Man Shields+Spears, Musician

      Immortals 746
      23 Models, Full Command, Shields+IW, Rending Banner

      Artillery: 825
      Infernal Engine Weapon 305

      2x Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower 90
      2x Weapon teams 170
      Grenade Launcher


      Rest of Infernal Engine 145 (460)
      Kdai Incarnates 680
      6 man

      Got two last games to do tommorrow then we will have to see what next weekend looks like.
    • Tyranno wrote:

      Hmmm, so Immortals get blended before they can use Battle Focus-lite, Rocket Battery is over-priced to hell, Disciples can't do much damage with only S4.

      Oh dear...

      Well at the least the Titan Mortar still rocks...
      Fortunately, it is a beta, and we’ll have an updated book soon. Lots of chances to get it right :)

      Still, the initial attempt isn’t too promising. Looks like the book needs a good number of adjustments to fix the internal balance. Fixing the prices should be adequate for most things, though. I think the rocket battery could be pretty good (were it half the cost), and disciples probably just need a little more damage output to really shine (cheaper GWs would do wonders).
    • We lack AP.
      Our burns from Volcanic Embrace and Pyromancy struggle a lot more: it's a bit silly when pijama elves rolls saves after been engulfed with flames and more flames.

      Maybe something giving AP on flaming attacks toward marked units? We have the Engineer item, so the mechanic is already there (also the fact you cannot use the item on a Bound Daemon is poor)

      Our daemons are just unreliable on doing what they should do anymore. And lugars should get some built in AP for PW
    • lawgnome wrote:

      Tyranno wrote:

      Hmmm, so Immortals get blended before they can use Battle Focus-lite, Rocket Battery is over-priced to hell, Disciples can't do much damage with only S4.

      Oh dear...

      Well at the least the Titan Mortar still rocks...
      Fortunately, it is a beta, and we’ll have an updated book soon. Lots of chances to get it right :)
      Still, the initial attempt isn’t too promising. Looks like the book needs a good number of adjustments to fix the internal balance. Fixing the prices should be adequate for most things, though. I think the rocket battery could be pretty good (were it half the cost), and disciples probably just need a little more damage output to really shine (cheaper GWs would do wonders).
      The problem is that (apart from the Rocket pricing problem) this was stuff I pointed out some time ago. Hell I have a massive thread discussing why Battle Focus will never come into effect as often as Thunderous did (and that is without Tauruhk-style units).

      In fact I specifically mentioned that other elite infantry was going to cause a big problem for us when 2.0 dropped and MMU became a more common style. Not even 48 hours and I am proven right...


      Inverno wrote:

      We lack AP.
      Our burns from Volcanic Embrace and Pyromancy struggle a lot more: it's a bit silly when pijama elves rolls saves after been engulfed with flames and more flames.

      Maybe something giving AP on flaming attacks toward marked units? We have the Engineer item, so the mechanic is already there (also the fact you cannot use the item on a Bound Daemon is poor)

      Our daemons are just unreliable on doing what they should do anymore. And lugars should get some built in AP for PW
      And now we have this to add to our problems...
    • The problem, at least theorically, is that our grinding strenght isn't real. The fact that we are suposed to be better in the long run is blantly false. We are good at armour but capped at +3, which in fact is less due to AP.

      Tomorrow I have my first 2.0 match against SA, so I will have some experience first hand against skirmishers, monsters, bricks and the strongest magic in the game. After a few games my conclusions could be better.

      Going to try the list I wrote before, even if they are expensive I have hopes in Annoited.
    • Mortus wrote:

      New list:

      4500 Points Test List #2
      Characters 950
      Prophet, Wizard Master (Alchemy) 620
      Shield, Kadim Binding, Mask of the Furnace, Magic Heirloom

      Vizier 330
      Steel Skin, Banner of Shamut, GW, BSB

      Core Points Used 1150
      4x Orc Slaves 175
      Musician, Shield

      2xHobgoblins 225
      25 Man Shields+Spears, Musician

      Immortals 746
      23 Models, Full Command, Shields+IW, Rending Banner

      Artillery: 825
      Infernal Engine Weapon 305

      2x Hobgoblin Bolt Thrower 90
      2x Weapon teams 170
      Grenade Launcher


      Rest of Infernal Engine 145 (460)
      Kdai Incarnates 680
      6 man

      Got two last games to do tommorrow then we will have to see what next weekend looks like.
      Two Games with this list today; First V High Elves; 14/6 Me, Tied objective Battleline/King of the HIll
      He ran Wizard with a 3+4++? Book of Melody? Master, Ashod Scholar +6 inch range, Hereditary spell item?
      BSB on Griffon 4+ Ward save?
      5 Dragon knights with super banner
      24ish Swordmasters with distracting banner, full command
      2x Units of 10 bowmen
      25?30? Core Spearmen
      5 Elyerian Reavers
      Lion Chariot
      Eagle
      Sky Sloop
      Fire Pheonix with the rider upgrade

      MVPs of this game where definitely the grenade launcher weapon teams. I definitely like them more than the flame throwers. The flame throwers where exceedingly difficult to get into range, and I found I did not need their make people flammable as none of my none flame thrower shooting is flaming anymore, as the banner would only work for one shot. Grenade launcher can bully t4-t6 tall models from behind my lines as they attempt to pick through and encircle me, steadily pelting wounds off of my opponent's griffon and pheonix. Notably the first volley I rolled 6 hits and blew his Reavers off the table before they could finish off one of my bolt throwers with a lucky roll. Infernal engine is still old reliable, zoning and keeping his monsters away from my left half of the table, he stood off the sky sloop and knights of ryma, steadily picking off model after model in round of shooting after round of shooting, after putting the sloop down to 1 wound. Bolt throwers put more pressure on, and the mortal crippled his swordmaster unit when I finally got a good chance to hit it. I think if I drop the infernal engine I would run 2x Titan Mortars and the 2x Grenade Launcher teams for most lists as that seems to be a pretty flexible fire base. He flew all around me and I fired at him all the time

      @Gomio @JordanBladen I would actually suggest lowering our heavy artillery allotment and increasing the number of weapon teams we can run, taking them out of a seperate unit entry i think. I feel like that would fit our army better, 18 inch range slightly mobile shooting is very unique as my opponent here remarked, and is a ton of fun to use. I did not at all regret pulling the bows off my hobgoblins. Actually, The Grenade launchers fit my high strength non/multi wound role quite nicely, It actually devalues the role of the rocket battery even further. Tank can advance and fire, moving to get clear shots and the threat of it's multiwound puts alot of things afraid to advance under the gun. Gunnery teams can move around, firing, and do most of the same job (strength 6v7) with similiar numbers of shots/hits, and the exact same AP. I... Would prefer I think the rocket battery to change and to keep the gunnery teams as they are though.

      Second Game, V DH, 4/16 to him, He got objective, Hold the Center/battleline deployment again
      2x Cannons
      Organ Gun (+1 to wound rune)
      2x Grey beards? 30 man deployed deep Hw+S
      Hold guardians? Stubborn 5++ Ward guys 25 of them, deployed deep
      2x Gyro copters (Not the bombers)
      3x those dwarf solo heros with initiative 10 strength 5 attacks. Seriously? Each of those are 115 points? !!!!!!!!!! (Seriously? I mean Seriously?)
      Dragonslayer with the MWs and seven attacks
      Bsb+lightning runes, 1+4++?
      General on shieldbearers, MWd3 sword, huge strength? Ward Save?
      10 miners with throwing weapons+Ambush
      5 slayers

      There ended up with a hill on both sides of the field unfortunately so I had to give him one, I deployed first and made him go first so I could have a better shot at getting things into range (He had to advance on the center with his three blocks as I lined up to do the same). It took... 4 cannon shots to kill the Infernal Engine (Missed once, then 2, 2, 3 wounds in order). He vanguarded and then marched up both gyrocopters to fire at my bolt throwers, killing one while my other bolt thrower killed his gryo after he missed his repeater gun shot. A building was pretty much dead center on the objective, so I moved all four of my orc units onto the left side, followed by my Immortals, basically using my orcs as a shield as he blew huge chunks of them away steadily with the organ gun (That side I had no shooting to contest him with after his rush, especially since his organ gun out ranged my teams by close to double their range). I soaked up as much shooting as i could until he was basically lined up with my side by side orcs shoved right up to the front of his units. I charged one in, and fled away from his counter charge so both fought one orc unit, killed it, and one overran into the front of my immortals. We got stuck in around turn 3 and spent the rest of the game beating on eachother, finally killing his stubborn block and bsb while his general's unit killed one unit of hobgoblins then spent the rest of the game on the objective. Cannons can reliable silence non-cannon based shooting, as if they can even see you they just hit you on their 5+ or 4+. We... Need a dedicated antiwarmachine weapon or tool. I can screen with orcs, but anything tall (Ergo the chariot war machines) or that happened to have a hill basically prevents that tactic from working and you can be shelled or fired upon with impunity. My kdai went from full strength to 2 models left with a single volley from his volley gun when I finally had to commit them to fighting, flying up into LoS and into a flank to get a charge off had to be done, and the unit evaporated to that damn gun. Its in the 200s of points, and the only thing OUR volley gun has on it is the range. It is more damaging, more reliable on damage, punches through armor, can be flaming if he decides in list design (Unfortunately my opponent did not have flaming runes) And the damn thing is 66% of the price of our rocket battery.

      I have now played... 5 games with the Immortals block and I come to a general conclusion. We... Really are not very good in these protracted combat. Only clever positioning of my endless hordes of cheap chaff to control my opponents slayers/characters/dragonslayer prevented my Immortals from dying, as they consistently lost combat to OTHER ANVILS. They had the same 3+ Armor as we do, the same parry, but on the charge in they moved up to strength 5 ap2, and characters can raise that another point of Ap. Without magical support or against depleted units I am increasingly finding Immortals lack the damage without hatred or the like to consistently win their fights. Strength five, even with the rending banner, really does not cut it. We have low attack volume, and low model volume, and as we grind through, every costly almost 30 point model adds up, as the total damage output drops lower and lower with each death. Our wizard really lacks any tools to be effective in close combat, as the loss of the 6 attack sword from the core rule book limits his ability to damage things, and our BsB with his lowly three attacks, moderate weapon skill, and need to take a defensive kit really struggle. The only solution to damage output issues I see is to increasingly cram more points and more characters in, the next step is add in an Overlord for that hatred to actually perhaps kill something in that first round of combat, but then I have to trim yet another unit to fit the character in, and that just leaves me with an easily out maneuvered infantry deathstar which is a fairly boring playstyle to work with.

      Maybe make Infernal weapons loose their magical attacks, and add +2 Strength, +1 Ap sorta like the new Lizardmen item? Or perhaps have it that whenever an opponent roles a six to hit them, or a 1 to hit them or something they take an unmodified attack back? -something-. They are the closest we have to a real infantry block capable of holding the line, and I still feel like we as an army have no answer to a real blender or high quality attack volume unit. Our magic is... Average at best, our characters are expensive, and our shooting is over priced, over limited, or short ranged (Notable exception being the Titan mortar, which I seriously consider replacing all the other shooting in my list with, take 2x of them and 2x grenade launchers)

      We cant have a wardsave since that is the DH thing. We cant have str 4 ap1 hits because that is apparently op. We cant have higher than a 3+ armor on even the equivalent of our heavy cavalry models because... Something/something/reasons?

      What precisely are we supposed to be good at again? The list I am running just dies a horrible death if people put too much pressure on it, It only really works if people try to play funny games, avoidance, MSU or the like. We are... like Obsidian. Dark, Hard, but brittle, shattering into little pieces under any real pressure, despite being just enough in some cases to murder someone.

      I tried to build a list where I put my wizard+Bsb+General on flying mounts and ran out of character points before I bought any real equipment, so that is out. Rocket batteries are out. New blunderbuss needs to be able to guaranteed stand and shoot or it will not see any play from me, if i take a big combat block unit of IWs, i am playing almost 200 points for a single round of 16-18 strength five shots, hitting on 4s. Would you pay 200 points for a single batch of 9 hits on a single unit once? No.

      The general powerlevel of the game took about a step and a half forwards, and i feel like we only took about a half step forwards. Generally unhappy and annoyed. I lost 4 out of five games this weekend, it kinda kills my forward momentum a bit.

      Edit in: Incarnates are... Alright. The leadership 6 or charge thing was a huge pain. I kept them close, as a reserve unit, 6 man, and that worked well. Tie things up, move up to flank. High elf player had a bunch of guys that where fireproof which stood them off though, and the DH player shot them to pieces, but I did get 2 models into combat where they did just fine, especially from a flank.
    • lawgnome wrote:

      Tyranno wrote:

      Hmmm, so Immortals get blended before they can use Battle Focus-lite, Rocket Battery is over-priced to hell, Disciples can't do much damage with only S4.

      Oh dear...

      Well at the least the Titan Mortar still rocks...
      Fortunately, it is a beta, and we’ll have an updated book soon. Lots of chances to get it right :)
      Still, the initial attempt isn’t too promising. Looks like the book needs a good number of adjustments to fix the internal balance. Fixing the prices should be adequate for most things, though. I think the rocket battery could be pretty good (were it half the cost), and disciples probably just need a little more damage output to really shine (cheaper GWs would do wonders).
      These are no news, everbody was pointing the army was lame since the beggining of spoilers. And the staff just didnt care. Every single heavy desing mess was pointed before, and you did nothing.
    • Playing my first game tomorrow. Not sure what to take, but I’m sure to try out the gunnery teams at least. Without any games under my belt, I echo the suggestion from Mortus: give us more access to Gunnery teams. Mobile shooting is far more fun than static gunline. It isn’t as we can play avoidance anyway, so it will be quite fun and unique.
    • I played a game the other day against Sylvan Elves. List was something like:

      Adept prophet on adept lammasu (HAD to try him)
      +1 to channel (= an extra PD each round = nice!), magical heirloom

      BSB with steel plates and flaming banner

      42 Hobgobs, Spears
      42 Hobgobs, Spears
      20 Hobgobs, Bows
      20 Hobgobs, Bows

      23 Immortals, FCG, Flaming bannetr
      6 Kadim Incarnates

      Infernal Engine, Shrapnel Guns
      Titan Mortar
      Gunnery team volley gun

      Somehow ended up with a list somewhat similar to what i usually play, with speargobs instead up citadel guards and more shooting. Wanted to test warmachines, speargobs and lammasu.

      Prophet did quite good. Opponent didnt shoot much which i feared, so he didnt die, which i consider a success. Damage magic (fire) did good, witchcraft not so good.

      Immortals got decimated before combat and didnt accomplish anything. I think they need that overlord to really shine. Maybe a couple of models more.
      Incarnates failed to kill a healing Treeman over several combat rounds. Remembered afterwards that i forgot all about the Battle Focus, which probably wound have made the difference.

      Speargobs didnt accomplish much as his elven spearblock were harder hitting and had a character, so had to play them a little defensive.
      Bowgobs are still a really good choice of core in my eyes. I usually only played them 20-30 per unit anyway, and they picked several wounds from bowelves and wild riders (cant remember new name) during the game. Still an autoinclude in my book, to tip the scales against elven shooting.

      Engine was engine :) my favorite model of the book.
      Mortar was so and so. Got a hit on a unit which made it flee, but it rallied so... Got a hit on a treeman and did 1 wound.. I think ill bring 2 or none from now on.

      Gunnery team was quite nice. I really like the AP 2, which makes some units think twice before coming near. Would also like to run as a pair.

      Game ended with a 13-7 to me. And i should really have gotten that treeman (even had +1 to wound in two combatrounds).

      For my next game i've created a really nasty list which i cant wait to try out. Playing a 3 game tournament with it on the 30th. Will give feedback afterwards.
    • I had my first game in 2.0 today with the following list:

      - Master Prophet, Alchemy, Book of Arcane, shield with willow ward, death cheater, Infernal weapon
      - Vizir, bsb, flamming std, 2hw, steel skin
      - 2 Hobos with wolf, shield and lihgt armour
      - 3*12 flintlock with musician, 2 with std
      - 22 immortals, fcg, banner shamut, IW + shield
      - 4 annoited, muso, shield, IW
      - kadim titan
      - rocket battery

      Oponent is SA with:
      - Quatl with protean, bsb, general +1 to cast and chanel, rending banner (temple guard)
      - Saurian lord with +4 Ad +4 march artefact, aegis 4 armour and paired weapons (lone char)
      - Saurian lord with +5 aegis and 2HW. (Spear unit)
      - 25 saurian, spear, fcg
      - 25 skink unit + 2 caiman and fcg
      - 26 temple guard, fcg, hard target banner
      - taurosawr with blowpipe
      - 5 chamaleons
      - 2 salamanders

      Despite one big mistake I made, I lose the game hard. Rocket battery has been a disapointment even gotting 7-7-8-9 shoots each turn (abobe average). Salamanders killed arround 12 Immortals in 2 turns. Kadim died to poison in a couple rounds, with cold dice (just saved 1 of 7 wounds). Annoited had done a god job, blowing up 20 spear saurians before the 2hw lord killed them (I charged, it is insane how good spears are).

      Rickot battery is almost 100 points to much expensive. First 2 turns my oponent feared him, but afterwards he just ignored it and killed with a couple of fireballs with his last magic dice. Had the BLT considered it is 2d6 shoots and no 2d6*2?

      Annoited alone had keep a flank for 3 turns and wiped almost all saurians. Considering they faced arround couple their points I'm satisfied.

      BTW I forgot about battle focus, but don't think I have gotten more than 6-8 extra hits in the whole battle.

      Cheers