Pinned Phase 202v of Path of Magic Feedback Beta

  • Problem: number of sniper spells in all of the paths

    What is the problem: too many right now

    Why is it an issue: they provide negative play experience, thus discouraging playing for some players, and might be imbalanced in competitive play (depending n how meta will form)

    Possible Solutions: reduce their number. Remove sniper from cosmology and just leave 1 in evocation and one in thraumaturgy. Rework the rest
  • problem: Cosmology on wizards with good "arcane items" especially with higher range.

    Wizards don't care about "book of arcane power" then can take other powerful dominant item. It is fine when cosmology is the mist versatile spell but now it have same ranges like other and also offer +1 to cast.

    Solution:
    Decrease range of all spells ( maybe except 1' ) and remove bonus to cast from equilibrium but add bonus to range to allow keep current 24" in some situations.
  • Aren't the spell types a bit too granular? With hexes have four subtypes of spells that describe exactly four existing combinations... looks a bit like an overkill. And quite opposite to unit rules where dozens of rules create hundreds of combinations and yet we use there inherited rules...

    Hex
    Hex, Damage
    Hex, Missile, Damage
    Hex, Direct, Damage

    All Damage spells are Hexes.
    All Missile spells are Damage
    All Direct spells are Damage
    Check Android APP: T9A Magic Flux by JimMorr
  • So far my opinion about spells in general:
    1)They are stronger (in average -1 cast then before, no tough punishment for miscast, harder to dispel, have always at least ok magic phase).
    2) Protection from spells are weaker (No bonus to dispel, no veil token for dispel, MR is even worse then old one).
    3) Bound Spells are great (You can make army about BS and have good magic (ok only Wrath can't)).
    Question is, would you wish to change with minor tweaks.
    Idea for tweaks:
    1) MR to improve with some combo ( Add to Aegis like before, all spells have higher number because of model with MR is present and use highest MR in game, channeling veil tokens for every point of MR, moving miscast table for MR of units under spell or highest MR on table if there is no direct target, ETC.).
    2) Veil tokens from casting phase to passive phase also (so army with no magic can have normal chance).
    3) Tougher miscast.
    4) Something about BS also, like +1 to dispel like before and make MR to work against (at the end they don't have miscast because they are not to powerful or something like pure magic).
    That is some of ideas :)
  • Feels like people are overvaluing the cosmology attribute and/or playing it wrong. It only affects the next casting attempt (of the appropriate chaos/cosmos side), so if you dispel a spell, it goes away. It's nowhere near Book of Arcane Power's +1 to cast all the time.
    Just because I'm on the Legal Team doesn't mean I know anything about rules or background in development, and if/when I do, I won't be posting about it. All opinions and speculation are my own - treat them as such.

    Legal

    Playtester

    Chariot Command HQ

  • Squirrelloid wrote:

    Feels like people are overvaluing the cosmology attribute and/or playing it wrong. It only affects the next casting attempt (of the appropriate chaos/cosmos side), so if you dispel a spell, it goes away. It's nowhere near Book of Arcane Power's +1 to cast all the time.
    Can you link where this comes from?

    I read it as you having the +1 until you try to cast a Cosmo spell regardless of success. I don’t see anything at all around losing it if you try and dispel something.
    "The combination of lemon and habenero peppers was confusing to me. I will pay for this tomorrow i think." - Rosanjin Scholar, Iron Chef
  • Fleshbeast wrote:

    Squirrelloid wrote:

    Feels like people are overvaluing the cosmology attribute and/or playing it wrong. It only affects the next casting attempt (of the appropriate chaos/cosmos side), so if you dispel a spell, it goes away. It's nowhere near Book of Arcane Power's +1 to cast all the time.
    Can you link where this comes from?
    I read it as you having the +1 until you try to cast a Cosmo spell regardless of success. I don’t see anything at all around losing it if you try and dispel something.
    From the text of the cosmology attribute. "This spell ends the next time the target attempts to cast a non-Bound cosmology spell."

    Edit: Oh, I see what you're saying. You're misreading me, you lose it if you get dispelled. I wrote it from the perspective of the opponent (if you're the opponent, if you dispel a cosmology spell, your opponent's +1 to cast goes away).

    Basically, my point was that you don't have a +1 to cast most of the time, because you're averaging 1-1.5 spells per turn, which means you're getting dispelled more often than you're successfully casting.
    Just because I'm on the Legal Team doesn't mean I know anything about rules or background in development, and if/when I do, I won't be posting about it. All opinions and speculation are my own - treat them as such.

    Legal

    Playtester

    Chariot Command HQ

  • Druidism
    Problem: without taken throne the lore is underwhelming, with Oaken throne it becomes very very strong. So I guess the problem is that in order to lure people into talking this lore, the benefits of druidism eith Oaken throne have to be so great, you risk having a mediocre lore for the chance of getting the buffed vertions off.
    It reminds me of the old banishment spell, it was completely broken vs undead and demons, but pretty terrible vs high elfs, so when you make something that isn't good in most situations, but have some conditions that boost their effectiveness, it tends to make the overpowered


    Solution: redesign the Oaken throne, and make the spells an added he between the regular and the buffed versions.



    Permanent spells.
    They are permanent.... bring back remain in play, and make them all remain in play. That way they dispellable with powerdice. Let's say you cast the comet, I would still have to dedicate a lot of my own powerdice to dispell it, thus crippling my own magic phase.
    That wich dosnt kill me better run...

    #makeVanquisherEternalGreatAgain
  • Problem: Large devastating spells

    What is the problem: Really small number of spells of this type/Lack of magic path that would work on such kind of spells

    Why is it an issue: According to ASAW - there are armies that should have access to these kind of spells as it is their Strength.

    Possible Solutions: Simple. There are only three solutions: 1. Rework magic paths changing at least one of them into large devastating spells path. 2. Add another one path with focus on such kind of spells. 3. Remove Large Devastating Spells from ASAW.
    Current armies:
    WDG
    SA

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    Armywide Signature Spells - Check! Maybe you could add something more? Success! We got Hereditary Spells!
  • New

    A general thought about path, especially with the removal of the spell selection limitation for adept/master :

    Most of the path are too generalist, I only point 3 path that are specialist (pyro : damage - withcraft : hex - occultism : damage) with max 1/2 spell that don't fit exactly the prupose (0 for pyromancy it's a perfect ^^ - this said, it's was because of that the path was so popular in 1.3).
    Not that generalist path don't have to exist, but more specialised path can give more flavour even to the magic phase.

    As exemple with my UD I can go with whatever of the 3 paths I'll do basicly the same things, I don't feel the choice being strategic or leading my army composition (or so little, I exagerate on prupose to show the feeling).
    Armies : DE, UD - Co-organise : Nain Gros-Gnon
  • New

    Minidudul wrote:

    Most of the path are too generalist, I only point 3 path that are specialist (pyro : damage - withcraft : hex - occultism : damage) with max 1/2 spell that don't fit exactly the prupose (0 for pyromancy it's a perfect - this said, it's was because of that the path was so popular in 1.3).
    Not that generalist path don't have to exist, but more specialised path can give more flavour even to the magic phase.

    As exemple with my UD I can go with whatever of the 3 paths I'll do basicly the same things, I don't feel the choice being strategic or leading my army composition (or so little, I exagerate on prupose to show the feeling).
    Totally agree.
    It should be added that due to removal of random spell generation Magic Paths can (and I think should) be even more specialized.

    Like @Minidudul said - it doesn't have to be all Paths, but I think that specialized path should have better spells than generalist one (either by effects, spell range or casting value). That way picking specialized would benefit player despite smaller pool of spell types.

    Each path could be defined with spells type: (example idea) combat (defensive/offensive) debuff spell, combat (defensive/offensive) buff spell, small damage spell, big damage spell (missing one), healing/reviving spell, board-affecting spell, discipline spell, movement spell, shooting-affecting spell (maybe more or just less).

    So looking at current Cosmology (with propably most universal spell selection) it should be worse choice at damage spells than Pyromancy & worse at debuff spells than Witchcraft.
    Current armies:
    WDG
    SA

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    Armywide Signature Spells - Check! Maybe you could add something more? Success! We got Hereditary Spells!
  • New

    Problem:
    Alchemy's Attribute - Alchemical Fire

    What is problem:
    Becomes quite useless due to changes

    Why is it problem:
    Because most armies require Flaming Standard to use it (and it was nerfed to work only one turn).

    Solutions:
    1. Change it so it won't be so situational (like works with Spells or add additional mode - like "or target friendly unit gains Flaming Attacks").
    2. Exchange it with ohter spell like Word of Iron (and give boosted Alchemical Fire Flaming Attacks to target friendly unit).
    3. Outside solution - Flaming Banner works all time (cannot be activated).
    Current armies:
    WDG
    SA

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Armywide Signature Spells - Check! Maybe you could add something more? Success! We got Hereditary Spells!
  • New

    Problem:
    Oaken Throne Druidism

    What is problem:
    Easier to dispel then to cast. Defending player is not forced to make hard decisions (i.e. dispel the throne when cast or let it go)

    Why is it a problem:
    Need to cast Oaken throne to make the most of the path, but opponent gets several chances to dispel it quite easily. And they don't need to waste their dice to stop it is when cast. All they need is to discard 1 die during step3 of magic phase. They can do it during your magic phase as well, which means .stopping oaken throne doesn't cost anything to their magic. But the casting player needs to roll 2 dice to safely cast the spell.
    Overall Oaken Throne feels like a heavy tax for the player that uses the druidism path. I don't think people should be punished for choosing a path.

    Solution:
    1. Remove Oaken Throne and make Druidism Attribute work similar to Cosmology; if you cast a successful spell that phase then following spells will be the oaken throne version and attribute will raise wounds
    2. Remove Oaken Throne, add normal and boosted versions for spells. Attribute changes to raise wounds for boosted version
    3. Make dispelling player to roll dice to dispel Oaken Throne. So for current CV, they'll need to roll 4+ at the same step as now.
  • New

    You can´t dispell the oaken throne in the phase it is cast with discarding one dice. Either you dispell it immediatly when it is cast, using normal dice, or you dispell it in your own magic phase by discarding a dice after siphoning the veil.

    This end of phase 3 step comes only once in each players magic phase, and this is before any spells are cast.
  • New

    matrim wrote:

    @berti I didn't say they dispel it with discarding 1 die when it is cast. I said they don't need to use dice to stop it when cast, they get several other chances with guaranteed dispelling.

    But I'll be damned if you ever read anything thoroughly before commenting on it :P
    His point was, if Oaken Throne goes through, the player who cast it gets to use it for at least that turn without it being dispelled. You can't discard a die in the same player turn it was cast, you have to wait till the next magic phase.
    Just because I'm on the Legal Team doesn't mean I know anything about rules or background in development, and if/when I do, I won't be posting about it. All opinions and speculation are my own - treat them as such.

    Legal

    Playtester

    Chariot Command HQ

  • New

    Squirrelloid wrote:

    matrim wrote:

    @berti I didn't say they dispel it with discarding 1 die when it is cast. I said they don't need to use dice to stop it when cast, they get several other chances with guaranteed dispelling.

    But I'll be damned if you ever read anything thoroughly before commenting on it :P
    His point was, if Oaken Throne goes through, the player who cast it gets to use it for at least that turn without it being dispelled. You can't discard a die in the same player turn it was cast, you have to wait till the next magic phase.
    I kind of understand the problem, though.

    If your opponent lets Oaken Throne through (only reliable on 2 dice) you have 2 dice less to cast spells. Depending on the flux card you draw that may mean your opponent has as much dice left as you so may dispel everything. Flux cards I II III and VI aren't very generous with Veil tokens. Otherwise you may only have 1 extra dice, not really sufficient to do a lot of harm (or good).
    Next magic phase your opponent may discard your 2-dice spell with 1 dice, 100% guaranteed.

    If your opponent just dispels OT most of your druidism spells aren't all that impressive and more expensive. Especially things like raising wounds (Druidism's best asset) simply won't work without the 0 spell.

    Druidism .. it's tricky! Usually with 2 casters and optimized Channeling I try a big damage spell from another path so my opponent feels obliged to dispel it with 3 or more dice. With the remaining dice it may be possible to get OT off and one additional good spell.
    Playing/painting: HbE, SA & DE ..