Pinned Phase 202v of Path of Magic Feedback Beta

  • Phase 202v of Path of Magic Feedback Beta

    hello all, We're currently acquiring the communities Feedback for the Path of Magic, (202v) As Beta goes on i'll continue to update during 2018.

    The purpose of this thread is for teams with in the design structure, to be able to obtain information of what the Community thinks of the current books and adjust to suit when deemed fit.


    This is going to be a live feed of data thread, so keep on posting till we see another version of book.


    Guidelines of posting:
    • What does the community dislike out of the Path of Magic book?
    • what rules do not just work in the current gaming mechanics?
    • what rules are pointless?
    • what rules have been over engineered, which could be simplify?
    Rules of posting:
    • If you come across a post you agree with, instead of doubling up on the post, please just **like the post** as this will increase volume of concern.
    • When presenting your concerns please pick one of the 4 topics you are replying to.
    • Please this thread is only for live Data, no discussions allowed, if we come across these post they'll just be deleted, as they'll clogged up the thread.
    • When voicing your concerns please keep it to a minimal of few lines each issue, We also want more info then Rule X,Y is broken/bad, be a bit more elaborate please.
    • If your'e going to be a multiple poster user, please just edit your post and keep updating it as you find more issues, to minimise swamping of the thread, if you legitimately think it deserve a post of it own as its major concern, then sure post it by on its own, if you think it just needs tweak on design please add it to your original post.
  • Path: Druidism
    Issue: Placement/Design of Spirits of the Wood

    The 6 spell is powerful, but it’s too difficult to get off the desired effect. When you need the spell to be Universal and break Steadfast, there is very little chance that the enemy won’t succeed in dispelling either The Oaken Throne or Spirits of the Wood. This, combined with the spell selection mechanic means that you will very rarely choose the spell over the 1 spell, Healing Waters.
    This effectively means that a Druidism Master has one less spell to choose from (disregarding that The Oaken Throne comes “for free”). And I say this as an SE player, the race that arguably benefits the most from Spirits of the Wood.

    My suggestion, is to either
    1): switch the placement of the 5 (Stone Skin) and 6 spell, since Stone Skin is very powerful and offers redundancy with the 1 spell, making those two a powerful combo. Although, this wouldn’t change the fact that (the augmented version of) Spirits of the Wood is too hard to get off to realistically be chosen.
    Or 2): buff Spirits of the Wood, so that it is always Universal (at an increased casting cost). The augmented version could influence the range of the spell or have any other effect.

    In general, Druidism suffers a lot from short ranges (terrain casting or not) and I think it would make for an interesting mechanic if Oaken Throne increased the range of some or all of the spells.

    The post was edited 2 times, last by SimonDK: Argh! Can't lexicon-link to Stone Skin! ().

  • Problem:
    Magic Paths Spell

    What is problem:
    Low variety of spells

    Why is it problem:
    Main goal of reducing number of magic path in 1.1->1.2 were too many similar spells.
    And now looking at 2.0 paths, many paths again have too similar spells. Just few examples:
    • -1/2 Offensive Skill & -1/2 Defensive Skill and sometimes -1/2 Agility (5 times!)
    • -1 to-hit modifier to shooting attacks (5-6 times, if counting also distracting)
    That's sad...

    Solutions:
    There are many effects that were lost during 1.1->1.2 (not just 6th spells).
    Bring back effects like '-1 Toughness until next turn', 'poisoned attacks for close combat [boosted - and shooting]', 'LD tests with additional dice & discarding lowest one', 'Unit gains Fight in Extra Ranks/Long Range'.
    Add new effects like 'models in unit swap their Offensive Skills with Defensive Skills', 'models in unit swap their Offensive/Defensive Skills with Strenght/Toughness'.
    All of these were just result of 5-10 minutes brainstorming (guess someone was lazy when rewritting paths :P ).
    More variety in Paths or there will be another reduction of number of Magic Paths due to too big similarities! :(
    Current armies:
    WDG
    SA

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Armywide Signature Spells - Check! Maybe you could add something more? Success! We got Hereditary Spells!
  • Problem:
    Excess Veil Tokens

    What is Problem:
    So far with some games, it was found that the 3 token limit (given the 1:3 ratio) wasn't very effective. Especially as tokens can't be used for dispelling.

    Why is it an issue:
    Just makes things somewhat bland for a system I otherwise enjoy.

    Solutions:
    I would think that even going to 4 or 5 would be interesting and increase the tactical options for players, or allowing them to be turned into dice as a reactive player.
  • Problem: lack of miscasts

    What is the problem: Magic has become far too reliable with the chance of triggering a miscast sufficiently low that 5-dicing a spell no longer carries a risk.

    Why is it an issue: The active player can comfortably force through one of two spells each phase. Coupled with the ability to choose spells this means that for a decent player there is rarely a phase where a very effective spell doesn’t go off.
    - considering the negligible investment that is needed for this result there needs to be a greater risk involved.

    Possible Solutions: Make a double six also miscast as though a triple 1 was rolled.
    "The combination of lemon and habenero peppers was confusing to me. I will pay for this tomorrow i think." - Rosanjin Scholar, Iron Chef
  • Problem: Cosmology

    What is the problem: Spells are very versatile and have very strong effect making this lore best pick, unless in a very specialized rozsters

    Why is it an issue: cosmology will be pyromancy of 2.0 (or if you will white magic of 2.0)

    Possible Solutions: raise casting of all spells apart from 1 and 2, decrease potency of +1/-1s spell by not changing ap in it and/or change ranges. Also possibly change attribute to lower casting value ,but not +1 to cast (there can be adnotationthat a wizard cannot use it if alread yhas +2 to cast)

    Problem: wizard council in divination

    What is the problem: with changed rules of generating spells putting many wizards with the same lore is redundant

    Why is it an issue: it makes missle spells quite unusable and unreliable

    Possible Solutions: increase range for the missles

    Problem: shamanism

    What is the problem: seems a bit of underdogish path

    Why is it an issue: won't be taken as often. Especialy on master, as for most the attribute is unnappealing

    Possible Solutions: apart from attribute make a rule for this lore that wizard master can take spells no 1 and 6 together
  • Flux cars are to homogenous and have to many power dice on average. It leads to more predictable magic phase but also to a situation when acting player does not have enough important spells to cast in order to force all dispel dice from the opponent. At least one card with 3 dispel dice would be welcome (instead of the one with 7).
    We can't stop here. This is bat country.
  • Shino wrote:

    Problem: Cosmology

    What is the problem: Spells are very versatile and have very strong effect making this lore best pick, unless in a very specialized rozsters

    Why is it an issue: cosmology will be pyromancy of 2.0 (or if you will white magic of 2.0)

    More explanation:
    1.This path have enough range to keep wizard safe from charges.
    2. This is most versatile path, also it have some the best spells in wizard arsenal.
    3. Missile 4S, AP3, 24" range? WTF
    4. Equilibrium is only small gift it don't matter in most situations. It's mean caster have access to x2 more spells. Just look at missile spell.

    I can accept versatility but this lore need little rework again.

    Other Solution:
    Reduce range to 18" like before but add +6" range to equilibrium. Then this lore will be harder to use but still powerful like now.
  • Problem: Drudismn.

    Oaken throne is still to easy to counter. Path is underwhelming without it.
    Solution make throne as attribute as soon you cast successful the first spell. Enemy has still to dispell it next round



    Problem: shamanism
    Attribute to weak. It caters only for one army really.

    “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.”
    Benjamin Franklin


  • Path issue: divination

    What is the problem: difficulty to use conclave.

    If you want really make a good use of conclave you need to reach 24" to get back on you invest. But if you want it to bo really efficient you also have to take a wizard master to reach spell 5 and 6.

    So finally you pay for 6 - 7 spell. But you will be able to cast only one or 2.
    The invest seems still too expensive for the result.

    solution
    Give +4" per wizard.
    Or better give +X" per wizard including the caster when a conclave is created. Where X = number of divination wizard creating the conclave.
    ( So 2 divination wizard at 12" will get + 4" and 3 wizard +9" wich seems more balanced)
    cas-p.net / graphic & web designer.
    SE - VS - O&G - EoS / 9th age player.

    The post was edited 3 times, last by Casp ().

  • problem: speaking in tongues spell from thaumaturgy.

    The casting difficulty does not change if choosing rally around the flag instead of commanding presence. As we all know, rally around the flag is a much more powerful rule than commanding presence unless the unit in question has a discipline value of 5 or less.

    Therefore the casting roll must be proportional in scale to the in-game effect. Currently it is an 8 to cast for both so I would just use rally around the flag everytime. I don't know if this was intended or not. Most of the time the bsb and general or together anyways so it can't be a range issue.
  • problem: Pyromancy Path is to low versatile compare to others. It was the greatest path because lot of ppl play MSU and Salve spell was to good. Now this Path suffer double Nerf :/

    Also 6' spell is nothing special. In cosmology we have almost same spell even better.

    I think 6' spell need rework for something special: Area Attack spell or Flame Thrower Mechanism, maybe old Panic Test spell with DMG ?
    Additional, S3 hits are not streamline to whole Path.
  • Druidism: Master of Earth

    Issue:
    this spell can be cast from any cliffs terrain.
    - there are no cliffs terrain in the map pack
    - most people don’t have cliffs in their terrain they have either at home or at their local gaming hq.

    Therefore, this spell essentially has its range significantly reduced compared to the rest of the path and other spells of similar type in other paths.

    Solution: either
    1. Add “cliffs or impassable terrain
    Or
    2. Change cliffs back to impassable.
    "The combination of lemon and habenero peppers was confusing to me. I will pay for this tomorrow i think." - Rosanjin Scholar, Iron Chef
  • I read rules of this topic, but let me write my opinion there instead of creating a new topic.

    Cosmology

    Issue: too versatile and long range casting, maybe too powerful spells for their cost.

    So in a few days we will have a large tournament in Krakow for 120 persons. I calculated and found that more than 90% of armies who have a accept to Cosmology took it. Imo this is the best example that something went wrong.

    Proposal:
    Make this path less versatile. For example make the player need to write in his roster which version of spells he's focused on. And another version has - 6 range/-1 to cast.

    Right now we have:
    - 5+ ward for everyone in unit. To get this in occultism we have to kill a bunch of dudes. And also you have chaos version for s3 hits everyone which is one of the most powerful spells.
    - 2d6s4 with availability of ap3 and divine for the low price, which is the one of the best missiles (maybe only unnering strike is better)
  • cosmology is a combination of in fact beeing 2 spells for one, bonus to casting and low casting values from start and high range.
    This lore either has to get some downgrades on the spells and/or casting values increased.

    And regarding magic in general, with no dispell bonus, the wizard hat that adds +1 to cast should perhaps dissapear
  • Path: all (but especially Evocation)
    Issue: limit on extra dice (max +4)
    Suggestion: increase it to 5 or 6


    If an army uses more than 1 caster or basically has a few models with the Channel (1), it happens that there are too many Veil tokens to turn into Dice during the Magic Phase. Card V already gives 9 tokens; whenever a player has more than 6 extra Veil tokens, the extra are lost.

    6 extra tokens may sound a lot but:
    • You are allowed to store 3 from the previous turn
    • Evocation gives +1 veil token for each succesful cast
    • Some armies use more than a few casters with Channel (like SA that easily field a Immortal Cuatl Channel(2), Skink adept Channel (1), a few Stygiosaurs with Shamanism casters, both Channel(1).
    • Some armies have other ways to generate veil tokens (HbE H spell, banner that steals a Veil token)
    So it's clear that it isn't all that hard to get more than 6 Veil tokens in a given magic phase.
    Hence I would want to suggest to increase the extra dioce allowance to 5 or 6.
    After all, in T9A 1.3.4. it wasn't uncommon to roll a 6-6 or 5-5 and 1 channel.

    Eru wrote:

    Surely getting more than +4 when you have channel >8 doesn't seem so unbalance seeing the massive amount of points you need to invest (if it's even possible). We're not talking of the lucky +6 of the old times for only a master, we're talking of a deserved +X because you invested XXX.
    Or else find some additional uses for a Veil token surplus. Like:
    1. Pay 2 veil tokens: one of the spells known by your wizards cost 1 less to cast. Effect lasts 1 turn.
    2. Pay 2 veil tokens: one of the spells known by your wizards cost 1 more to dispel. Effect lasts 1 turn.
    3. Pay 4 veil tokens: you may cast one spell known by your wizards two times. Effect lasts 1 turn.
    4. Pay 3 veil tokens: Increase the range of a given spell by 4". Aura spells only get their range increased by 2". Effect lasts 1 turn.
    After all, some of these traits are an army-wide feature for some armies.
    If it were a Saurian only feature (because it's one of the armies suffering from a veil token overflow the most) call it "Master of the Veil"
    Or only open up these options once 4 extra dice are generated and call it "Flux Overflow".
    Playing/painting: HbE, SA & DE ..

    The post was edited 3 times, last by Teowulff ().

  • You can only store 3 veil tokens when you exchange them.

    If you get further tokens after exchange you don't loose them.

    It is possible to have then 6 veil tokens BEFORE drawing a card next turn

    “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.”
    Benjamin Franklin