For the Lady! Adventures of a fresh Duke, strategy & modelling.

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  • For the Lady! Adventures of a fresh Duke, strategy & modelling.

    Hello, fellow shining knights, filthy peasants, and horse lovers.

    As 2017 was definitely not my best year for the Hobby, I thought it would be a good idea to open some topic on my way to "tame" this beloved army of mine: Equitaine.
    Brets were the very first minis I owned, some 16 years ago, and they always had a special place in my heart. I'm not some hardcore competitive player, but my 2018 goal is to finaly focus on ONE (ok, actually two, you'll see why) army, because I have somehow... too many armies in my shelves, mostly waiting for some paint.

    So here I go, eager to share with some more experienced players my view on the army, some feedback, some lists I want to try, mixed with some painting, as the hobby is for me a mix of both. If this thread should be in some other place, please let me know: as it is a bit of a hybrid topic, I was unsure where it would belong.

    SO. Here we go.

    I painted a (too) few models this year, so primary goal is to give a boost to this part. What's better for this than the motivation to play these units ? 2.0 beta is out (we'll get back to this later) so now is the time to try new things, get new units, test, test, and test again to be able to provide feedback (on my humble level).

    As a slow painter, I figured it would be super nice to be able to field not one, but two armies with my models. What would I do with my knights ? Well, dead knights of course! So I could play them as Vampires once in a while.
    For those who played WFB, the name of Moussillon certainly rings a bell: this land fell to the dark side and is now populated with zombies, vampires, and other abominations. On a painting level, I can really enjoy some heraldry with a bit a rust and dust. Perfect.

    So I took my brushes, did a bit of kitbashing and voila!



    So, men-at-arms will see a lot of transformation, cause I'd probably need a lot of these guys as skeletons and zombies. I will mix the living and the dead, following the fluff of Mallobaude, the Dark Knight. I really wanted to try on Peasant levy first before getting on the knights, but I'm pretty happy with the result.

    So, now the minis have some kind of plan, let's talk tactics with my first list, cavalry-heavy (full cavalry, in fact), because for a first try, I wanted to see some good ol' cavalry list without a single footman!

    410 - Duke, barded warhorse, shield, grail oath, shield breaker, virtue of Renown

    365 - Paladin, barded warhorse, shield, Oriflamme, virtue of Daring

    395 - Damsel, master, barded warhorse, Druidism

    265 - 6 Knights Aspirant, musician

    265 - 6 Knights Aspirant, musician

    658 - 12 Knights of the Realm, full command, Banner of Roland

    700 - 12 Knights of the Quest, full command, Banner of Speed

    834 - 9 Knights of the Grail, full command, Banner of Speed

    120 - 5 Yeoman outriders, bow

    120 - 5 Yeoman outriders, bow

    360 - The Green Knight

    Some feedback to come, along with my first impression on this beta!

    Cheers!
    Dwarf player with a (re)new(ed) fetish for Equitaine.
    Owner of many armies, master of none.
    #PikesOrRiot (©Dan)
  • Thanks a lot, my good sirs.

    I managed to get back my pals into the game with this 2.0 and after teasing them for some time, they are building lists like crazy.
    As they intend to get back to tournaments, I'll be their devoted sparring partner on UB (living abroad) and I'll be in charge of taking the hits of nasty lists of EoS and SE. We even had a few games so, with my first impressions.

    EoS seems really nice: the system of supporting units works fine, orders are really good. The big chickens are still a powerfull unit, and steam tank is really nasty.

    -I had nothing to break the Stank. GK and aspirants charged it and I did only 3 wounds out of 21A S6. I might have rolled poorly. Aspirants and GK get then flank charged by Imperial guard with M6 (banner + order). Complete disaster, I fled, letting with the Stank with 2 wounds.
    -Handgun with accurate is deadly, wounds on 3+, do not trigger the Blessing... 2 x 20 light infantery provide heavy fire and get easily rid of 5 aspirants/knights per turn.
    -Imperial guard has bodyguard. With 1 general, 1 bsb and 3 wizards in it, a block of 30 is a no-go for any cavalery we have.

    SE is really mobile, and can play aggressively (many vanguard in the list).

    -I completely missed my deployment by trying to provide cover to my knights with the yeomen. Eagles blocked the yeomen, and my knights with their deep units were not allowed to get their charges. Even so, I felt unconfortable charging Rangers (to many attacks) or Thicked beast (stubborn) but I would have.
    -I have nothing to deal with chaff right now. The EoS list didn't used his (2x10 milita), but the eagles are a real pain with flying + high movement value. I might sacrifice some aspirants for archers or crossbowmen. Some more conversions do do ;)
    Dwarf player with a (re)new(ed) fetish for Equitaine.
    Owner of many armies, master of none.
    #PikesOrRiot (©Dan)
  • Scoub wrote:

    Thanks a lot, my good sirs.

    I managed to get back my pals into the game with this 2.0 and after teasing them for some time, they are building lists like crazy.
    As they intend to get back to tournaments, I'll be their devoted sparring partner on UB (living abroad) and I'll be in charge of taking the hits of nasty lists of EoS and SE. We even had a few games so, with my first impressions.

    EoS seems really nice: the system of supporting units works fine, orders are really good. The big chickens are still a powerfull unit, and steam tank is really nasty.

    -I had nothing to break the Stank. GK and aspirants charged it and I did only 3 wounds out of 21A S6. I might have rolled poorly. Aspirants and GK get then flank charged by Imperial guard with M6 (banner + order). Complete disaster, I fled, letting with the Stank with 2 wounds.
    -Handgun with accurate is deadly, wounds on 3+, do not trigger the Blessing... 2 x 20 light infantery provide heavy fire and get easily rid of 5 aspirants/knights per turn.
    -Imperial guard has bodyguard. With 1 general, 1 bsb and 3 wizards in it, a block of 30 is a no-go for any cavalery we have.

    SE is really mobile, and can play aggressively (many vanguard in the list).

    -I completely missed my deployment by trying to provide cover to my knights with the yeomen. Eagles blocked the yeomen, and my knights with their deep units were not allowed to get their charges. Even so, I felt unconfortable charging Rangers (to many attacks) or Thicked beast (stubborn) but I would have.
    -I have nothing to deal with chaff right now. The EoS list didn't used his (2x10 milita), but the eagles are a real pain with flying + high movement value. I might sacrifice some aspirants for archers or crossbowmen. Some more conversions do do ;)
    Yup, there’s only one way to properly deal with stanks: Avoid it. One of my main opponents here is playing EoS and always bring it. Whenever I’ve tried to break it, with Might+Dragon Lance or full GK bus with rending banner, they have just got stuck there and decimated.
  • aye unbreakable, high armour, high res....

    His 1+as goes to 4+ against charging knights so we need 14 wounds to get 7 through.
    To get 14 wounds we need 28 hits wounding on 4s.
    So hitting on 4+ we need 56 attacks to get the needed hits... so not a chance to kill it on the charge and once we are wounding on 6s in the grind it's no bueno.

    EoS is an extremely hard matchup.
    /Jacob
  • Marcos24 wrote:

    THat might Duke should do it though
    SHOULD is the key word here. On average rolls he should one-shot the stank, but if he misses a couple of the initial hits, your 600 point duke is stuck in a grinding fight with no power weapons. Done that one time too many.

    To further @Klexe s calculations: With the new hit-chart you can be hitting on 2s with either oath, wounding on 3s, 5+ AS = 100/54 wounds on 5 attacks. These again generating new attacks which makes 2000/2916 wounds, so a total of 7400/2916 wounds = 2.53 wounds. With MW that is on average 7 wounds total which should be enough. Unsure why I get a different result than @Klexe but the point is the same:

    On the initial hit roll, if only one shows up as ‘1’ you’re already below average.
  • mrmossevig wrote:

    Marcos24 wrote:

    THat might Duke should do it though
    SHOULD is the key word here. On average rolls he should one-shot the stank, but if he misses a couple of the initial hits, your 600 point duke is stuck in a grinding fight with no power weapons. Done that one time too many.
    To further @Klexe s calculations: With the new hit-chart you can be hitting on 2s with either oath, wounding on 3s, 5+ AS = 100/54 wounds on 5 attacks. These again generating new attacks which makes 2000/2916 wounds, so a total of 7400/2916 wounds = 2.53 wounds. With MW that is on average 7 wounds total which should be enough. Unsure why I get a different result than @Klexe but the point is the same:

    On the initial hit roll, if only one shows up as ‘1’ you’re already below average.
    Well sry... i made a misstake
    A Questing DUKE ABSOLULTY destroys with might a Stank
    Stank has terror. = +1 to hit
    and i forgot armor ups :)
    And true... with Grail giving OWs 7 means you also hit on 2+

    So a duke hits not on 3+ but 2+ = 4.3 hits on average = ONLY 2.4 on average after armor :) = worst case 4 wounds. Average case 7.4 wounds best case 8+wounds


    An Audacity Questing Oath With ap6 weapon does:
    4 hits 3.66 wounds each turn without any armor for the Stank.


    The only way to one shot the Stank on charge reliable is:
    1. Use peasants WM to soften him up?
    2. Use might lance PLUS a unit of Knights (1200 points + at least)
    3. Use magic buff on Dragon lance. With rerolling once every time you should get 5 hits = 3.88 wounds = 2.59 after armor = 2,59 new attacks and hits = 1.33 new wounds = 3.83 wounds. Even worst case he should be dead now with 7.67 wounds
    Too close to home; too lightly guarded!

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Klexe ().

  • Beautiful models, would get charged by, any day of the week.
    As an EoS player i'll give you some tips for dealing with the stank.
    If you're playing under the beta ruleset, just avoid it all game, with a movement value of 4D3 its quite slow, and you should be able to outmaneuvre it, while playing an full cavalry armour.

    Granted, if he just parks it near his Light Infantry or Artillery, that you definitely need to kill off ASAP it gets a bit trickier.
    Due to the fact that the Stank can never overrun or pursue, redirecting it as a lesson in futility, instead you can semi effectively tarpit it, using knights and magic. Druidism has great tools for this, by giving the knights either a 4+ Regeneration or Res 7 you quite severely hamper the damage output of the Stank, buying you a few rounds to clean up whatever it was defending.
  • True, forgot that they have less coal in the new version :) Haven’t been able to meet that on the battlefield yet and I agree, it has much lower zoning potential.

    Back to topic: Love the painting skills. I have actually been thinks by about the same VC+KoE combo army, but I don’t think I have the skills to pull it of like you:-)
  • I find the new version way better then the old.
    Way scarier as it is more reliable.

    The stank is one of the reason why trebuchet are still way to good to pass... Nothing else can really kill it.

    Trebuchet does 0.55 in average each round.

    Scorpion does 0.5... Sad that the trebuchet is still better. Well it cost the double but also works vs infantry and can shot over units and ignores cover...
    Too close to home; too lightly guarded!

  • I'm waiting a bit before getting trebs in my lists. I think they are a bit auto-include, something I dislike in any armybook. I've been playing dwarves all along WFB 8th and I'm a bit bored about WM (except organ gun, because they're awesome :P ) : everytime you need to hit something, you'll roll a 3 and miss it. But I agree, some Duke builds have the potential to kill the tank. I just don't want to build my lists to counter anything specific, especially the Stank (is there any other unit in the game with Res 6, 7 hp, 1+ as and unbreakable, really ?)

    So yesterday I had another game against @Galdenos and his SE. We did another game because I gave up way too soon on our first match due to my very poor deployment.

    I played Grail Duke with Fortress of faith + Crusader's Salvation, BsB, master Damsel (sounds weird) Druidism, 13 KotR with Banner of the Last Charge, 2*15 archers, 12 Questing with Roland, 9 GK, 2*5 yeomen, 3 Pegs.

    On the other side, Thicket general along with 6 Beasts (Str 5), Shapeshifter bsb, druid master cosmology, 4*10+ archers, 28 rangers vanguard and "I replace my unit before game" banner, 2*3 Kestrels, 2 eagles.

    My deployment zone get some swamp, a forest and a building in the middle, great! He deploys everything to get turn 1, so I pray.
    After his movement, I got some Kestrel in my zone (vanguard + fly 28 make a solid 30" movement when you start) because I misplaced my GK. The 2 eagles are if front of my QK and KotR, providing some chaff, while the M6 (!!!)Rangers are not too far. I deployed mostly on one side of the building, so he uses that (and the eagles) to prevent any charge. Thicket pack march, archers kill 5 yeomen and make a wound on pegs.

    My turn, I move a bit, realise I can't get my archers into the building: he could autocharge 'em with his Rangers. If I kill the eagles, I'll get a flank charge next turn on my KotR. GK march through forest and I loose 2 of them, but I need them closer. I'm not able to raise my GK. I move a bit my pegs to let the others Kestrel come closer, but again, I do some bad math and I just open him a golden road to my archers (we played capture the flag, and they were of course his target, along with thr KotR). Last 5 yeomen chaff the Thicket so I can charge them with GK + KotR.

    Turn 2 SE, eagles move along to prevent the KotR & QK+characters to flank the Thicket (which charged the yeomen). He had a few spells, but nothing fancy. 45 shots into the GK make them pass from 7 to 3 models, and my hope to do anything to the Thicket disappear.

    My T2, QK bus charge the eagle, GK charge some archers (for objective, and because 3 GK againt Thickets won't do much) I might have charged the Thicket, when I think of it, and try to kill the general (7A S6 with divine attacks, might work). I get Stone skin on the kotR for the next round. Archers kill the eagle in front of KotR, GK bus kills the other, GK win and pursue (another unit flees as well, due to panic) but do not get the archers.

    SE T3 was the funniest of all. So, Thicket charge the KotR on front, bsb on their side, Kestrels on the other side. Rangers charge the QK bus on front, other Kestrels on the flank. At this point, I cry a bit because playing KoE and not being able to charge anything important is a bit sad. Being combo-charged is worst. 20+ Archers kill 2 GK, only champion is left. On the QK bus, Kestrel do... nothing, due to bad roll. I save the wounds he deals. Rangers bump on the Faithful duke (really nice item!) and kill 1 QK. Duke kills nothing, BsB and QK do some damage: I win by 2 :D But Rangers and Kestrels have Dis 9 (why ?) and so they stick. BsB + Thicket + Kestrel do 1 wound on the Res 6 KotR (thanks Stone skin), I'm steadfast Dis 9 with bsb not far away, I stay.

    KoE T3, last GK push the fleeing archers out of the table but cannot redirect (rolled a 10) into other archers. Pegs finally come back so they might do some stuff. I get Healing Waters 4+ on the KotR. But this round, QK lose 4 wounds, Duke loose 1, I loose by 2 without Steadfast (I needed to kill just 1 more Ranger :| ), break, flee and get destroyed by Kestrel with the Rangers impacting the flank of my KotR. I give up here, as there is nothing I can save from now on.

    So, my 2-cents analysis:

    SE:
    -eagles are way too good. In fact,everything flying is a pain in this army. I'm almost tempted by the Storm Clarion, but where do I get these 80 pts ?
    -dis 9 on every cc unit: Rangers, Kestrels... I mean, our GK, our finest unit, get Dis 8. Something seems wrong here, dunno in which way.
    -M6 vanguarding unit with S5 ap3 (hello Blessing, here you are!) is a bit nasty. Any charge on it might break it, tho, but I didn't managed to have any. Stong unit, lots of attacks.
    -Kestrels are a very good unit. Hard target coupled with Silent Mist make them just ignore any light shooting.

    KoE:
    -Deployment was bad. My archers were able to make 15 shots total in 3 rounds, GK lost themselves in the woods without preventing Kestrel from coming. I faced my opponent when he had vanguard and stuff, might have go for refused flank. Against this list, error are extremly punitive. I have to say he knows his list well (played almost the same in 1.3 only with Blade dancers instead of Rangers and 2 Dancers chars), and I still discover mine.
    -Complete waste of my Pegs. They might be really good as a supporting unit.
    -You really need to be able to deal with ennemy chaff. These 2*100 points models (!!!) cost me the game.
    Dwarf player with a (re)new(ed) fetish for Equitaine.
    Owner of many armies, master of none.
    #PikesOrRiot (©Dan)

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Scoub ().

  • If you don't play with trebs I would advise taking shamanism.

    1. Swarm is awesome vs monster
    2. First spell increases strength which is desperately needed to grind infantry better or kill monster.
    3. Summon is awesome to force the enemy to move too and not just stand around and also decent at dealing here and there a wound and chaff.



    I would build like this:
    1 grail bus big 9 guys.
    Rending banner
    Bsb with strider banner inside and rod of battle

    This allows you the most movement freedom and you need it. Other options is Roland as banner. Very decent too.
    Too close to home; too lightly guarded!

  • Klexe wrote:

    I would build like this:

    1 grail bus big 9 guys.
    Rending banner
    Bsb with strider banner inside and rod of battle
    Rod of battle seems very good indeed. But if I want my bsb inside, I have to give it Grail oath, and I prefer my Duke to have it.
    Dwarf player with a (re)new(ed) fetish for Equitaine.
    Owner of many armies, master of none.
    #PikesOrRiot (©Dan)
  • So.

    The least I can say is that no version of 9th age has given me so much to think about when list building. Maybe because I used to switch from one army to another just aiming to test things and have fun. But this is a good thing.

    My last game gave me the sour impression to absolutly not control the movement on the battlefield. SE are way more mobile (I'm ok with this) but we need to charge to be effective and I had no opportunity to do so. Let's build some list then!

    First, I'm gonna try some hippolord. I got the mini, that's a plus.
    I thought about giving him some tools to be very tanky, the idea being: make him able to reach something and lock it for some bus to come.
    This bus would be KotR with BsB and Banner of the Last Charge. I know, I'll lose some impact hits due to BsB in first rank. But 13 KotR + damsel + BsB give 5 ranks, so 10 hits S4 is fine by me. I'll get the Oriflamme too, seems a good way to break big blocks. And Virtue of Piety because I'm tired of losing so many knights to ennemy fire. Damsel will go with Shamanism, as I want to be able to kill some chaff (Swarm, I'm looking at you!) and multiply the threats on the table (and I want to model some Totemic Beast Moussillon's style :P ).

    As my Duke get 18" leadership, I'll give another shot to Knight aspirants: that's another threat, expandable, and they can run around my lord for support. So core is complete.

    Two units of yeoman are here to chaff, avoiding flank charges, etc. These lads are also a good way to learn movement, and I need it.

    Some good block of Grail knights with Banner of Roland will always provide much needed "heavy support". And as I want to multiply threats, two small vanguarding Pegs units would complete this. As I'm running some flyers, I'm gonna give a try to Storm clarion to negate one flying phase for my opponent.

    Clear list is here:

    605 - Duke, mount: hippogriff, shield, grail oath, Crusader's salvation, Fortress of Faith

    390 - Paladin, barded warhorse, shield, Oriflamme, virtue of Piety, Lucky charm

    475 - Damsel, master, barded warhorse, Shamanism, Storm Clarion

    265 - 6 Knights Aspirant, musician

    265 - 6 Knights Aspirant, musician

    658 - 13 Knights of the Realm, full command, Banner of the Last Charge

    834 - 9 Knights of the Grail, full command, Banner of Roland

    120 - 5 Yeoman outriders, bow

    120 - 5 Yeoman outriders, bow

    390 - 3 Pegasus knights, musician, vanguard

    390 - 3 Pegasus knights, musician, vanguard

    Total: 4502 points. Yep, I'm 2 points too costly :/
    So I should remove 1 KotR and find some use of these 46 points

    Any comment on the list or my way of thinking is utterly welcome!
    Dwarf player with a (re)new(ed) fetish for Equitaine.
    Owner of many armies, master of none.
    #PikesOrRiot (©Dan)
  • Comments:
    I think you have a lot more musicians than I could possibly use. Do you reform the knights a lot? I usually run them musicless, a 180-turn is just 8" anyway in Lance Formation.
    Fortress of Faith seems a bit out of place on the Hippoduke? Especially with Grail Oath, now you have payed for a high offensive skill, and it's just set back to 4 with the FOF. I guess you want a magical weapon instead..
    The Aspirants are prone to run away, you could use 2x6 Realms instead for more reliable flank control.
    I like that you run with 6 Pegasus, looking forward to hear how they work!
  • I'd personally replace the fortress of faith on the hippo lord with Titanic might (and potentially make him a questing lord) so you save 5 points and come out at 4997.

    I'd also keep the musicians personally as theyll help with mobility which can be quite useful for your non-light troop knights who can be a bit slow without them. (They're easier to change direction with muso's)