Brainstorming about the Vermin Swarm

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    • I mean historically Skaven tended to ally with chaos factions so unless you have a better idea I would say BH, ID, DL, WDG.

      VS recognize the BH as mighty and heroic and naturally agree that the BH deserve the honor of the vanguard...

      ID would find themselves a comfortable position as the rear guards and blocking troops and exploit their expertise as siegemasters.

      WDG would likely join in the main guard providing solid backbone to an otherwise easily spooked army.

      Daemon Legions? They just want to do bad things because it's fun. They're in your camp eating your cooks and bakers.

      Together they are assured piles of loot, slaves, souls, and glory. They can kill each other for bigger shares once the opportunity presents itself.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Col. Tartleton ().

    • From Background it seems VS had no allies. They had empire of their own. Together with VC they caused fall of Avras but it seems they have stollen the city from bloodsucker fangs rather than cooperated with them. In T9A there are no good vs evil alliences...

      I wouldn't be surprised seeing HbE helping VS to stop humans from exploring the oceans. It is business...
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    • In T9A there is no "Good vs. Evil" scheme as WH players were used to get.
      - factions are not monolithic. Local politics prevail.
      - all factions have "good" and "bad" aspects, expecially from the point of view of any other faction.
      - old enmities have little value compared to current interests, but they may still serve as a pretext.

      If you still wish to find a block vs block, look for inspiration in The Great Scheme of The 9th Age.
      If you want to play that Great Scheme of the land power of EoS raising against maritime power of HE hegemon, you could for example play:

      Land powers around Vetia: like 3rd Reich building up before WWII or Soviet Block (discard the ideology, only keep the geopolitics)
      Erik: VC, DH, EoS
      Tom (me): VS, VC
      Maik: DL (summoned)

      Maritime powers from periferia: Like UK gathering allies before WWII, or US resisting the domino-falling communist wave
      Alex: HBE
      Fabian: ID, SA, OnG
      Mario: BH
      Here, the factions mentioned are:
      Club-Army: WDG (Can be played by any player)

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    • I'd say everyone hates the Vermin by default.
      Most Sonnstahlers believe them to be demons. Sunna sacrificed herself for destroying the Swarm. So they should never never never be counted as allies, they should be slaughtered on sight.


      This being said, some alliances are much less likely to take into account the hatred towards Vermin.

      – For example, Orcs are always happy to find a good fight – allying with Vermin could be good.

      – I also think Infernal Dwarves as having much less qualms allying with a cursed race, especially if good for businnes. They also like digging tunnels and crazy dæmonic machinery after all. And they're also used to work « with » Orcs, so a 3 party alliance sounds cool.

      – And probably the Vampire Covenant. The Swarm was initially summoned by vampires. Probably they have despised each other bitterly ever since that time, but at the same time, their fates are bound, somehow. Also they share the same « living style » of hiding and acting from « behind the scenes ». So probably an alliance of circumstances would be fine.

      – Dæmons are cool. Vermin can summon them and make whatever pact with them, even the craziest ones.

      Undead Dynasties – Vermin could have found some fun ritual allowing for summoning a Barrow Legion in the heart of Vetia. Some of those legions could be old vassals of the Swarm from when the Swarm was ruling. Ancient oaths need to be fulfilled.

      – Finally, maybe the Ogre Khans could join in an anti-human alliance in order to get their old empires back – the Swarm would get Vetia back, and the Khans would get Augea back. But Ogre Khans are not friends with the Infernals who put an end to their monopoly of the Silk Road.


      I really don't see any elves allying with the Vermin, that they find disugsting. I mean, Highborn even despise the Sylvan Elves.

      Not sure at all about Beast Herds. They sound too honourable to me.

      Don't see Warriors allying with the Swarm neither, as they have completely different concepts of what « heroism » means.
      Unless the Vermin manage to trick them somehow…
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    • If the Vermin are anywhere near as prone to infighting and power struggle on every level of their society as the Skaven (which there are perfectly plausible biological reasons for), I can't see anything like allying with other races to be feasible in the longer term. That Tyrant you made a covenant with? Turns out he got overthrown by a rival political faction that was opposed to the deal from the start.

      At most, I could see the relevance of one-off acts of coordination in enemy-of-my-enemy situations. Even then, both parties run the risk of being used as a stooge to weaken the target for the benefit of the other.
      Sunna is not with the big battalions, but with the ones whose parts move with the best coordination.
    • Nothing in Background suggests VS managed to rebuilt their empire or that they have an advanced technology. Wouldn't be surprised if all our darkshard powered marvels were relics of the past patched so many times that their creators would have problems recognizing them.
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    • JimMorr wrote:

      Nothing in Background suggests VS managed to rebuilt their empire or that they have an advanced technology. Wouldn't be surprised if all our darkshard powered marvels were relics of the past patched so many times that their creators would have problems recognizing them.
      No. Nonononono. No.
      Aspera tum positis mitescent saecula bellis;
      cana Fides, et Vesta, Remo cum fratre Quirinus,
      iura dabunt; dirae ferro et compagibus artis
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      295saeva sedens super arma, et centum vinctus aenis
      post tergum nodis, fremet horridus ore cruento.”
    • Emperor_Zoron wrote:

      I don't know. I could see some making trade deals with other races, to get fresh grains, fruits and vegetables, seeds and nuts. Maybe they could have an underground railroad/subway that is in competition to the ID's own railroad system?

      Konrad von Richtmark wrote:

      If the Vermin are anywhere near as prone to infighting and power struggle on every level of their society as the Skaven (which there are perfectly plausible biological reasons for), I can't see anything like allying with other races to be feasible in the longer term. That Tyrant you made a covenant with? Turns out he got overthrown by a rival political faction that was opposed to the deal from the start.

      At most, I could see the relevance of one-off acts of coordination in enemy-of-my-enemy situations. Even then, both parties run the risk of being used as a stooge to weaken the target for the benefit of the other.

      The conjuction of these would be some sort of a Vermin Merchant Caravaneer?

      He will sell and buy goods off his load and any promises of pay now and get goods next year will suffer the fate of the gullible in a time of cynics realists?
      Why not hold elections for key seats? Oh! And direction of the game - that would also be hella cool :)

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    • I have no problem to envision allies to the swarm. In places where they have created an advanced lair they might have made vasalls out of tribes in strategic places. Some tribes are constantly pillaged for food and slaves, some are conquered and turned into a slave colony for the swarm and some are made allies that trade, pay tribune and serve as auxiliary troops. The tailed ones have no access to real cavalry and would need orcs, and goblins, and humans as cavalry in certain surface wars. Much like the romans and byzantines used auxiliary troops in their armies.

      Humans would probably be more diverse in their approach to vermin allies. Some cultures would have little problems when it comes to interact with the swarm while human cultures in proximity to the old Avras empire would treat cautiously with the swarm.

      The tailed ones young precent in the world and strong connection to world beyond the veil might make must elven cultures distrustful of the swarm.

      The dwarves would probably be in direct competition with the swarm in an unsolvable way, may it be in trade or territorial claims or for old grudges. The infernal might trade slaves with them on occasion.

      Whatever conflicts and alliances the horned rat was engaged in beyond the veil would probably have spilled over into our world when it comes to the tailed ones dealings with supernatural beings. Such politics would probably still change and influence the dusk senats goals.

      Orcs and goblins would probably have little problems in dealing with the swarm but would also have many opportunities to end up in conflict with them.

      The undead would have little to fear in dealings with the swarm apart from territorial conflicts or influence on worldly affairs. No risk for being enslaved as the swarm do not deal in necromancy. No risk of competition for food as the dead do not eat. They might seek the same minerals or magical artifacts but that would be the same competition the dead have with everyone.

      I have a hard time seeing the beast herds and the swarm as allies. I would imagen the civilization aspiration of the swarm would be touch of a cultural clash in dealings with the herds. The tailed ones background might also make them smell foreign and malicious to the beasts. If a vermin nest would engage in trading statues of champions and leaders for slaves or food or timber the herd might be interested.

      I have to little information about the khans to hazard a guess about how they would interact with the swarm.
    • Maybe with some barbarian tribes to follow some of the Dark Gods (Pride, Greedy, Gluttony) can have some alliance. These barbarian tribes are easy for Vermin to give or provide these that they want.

      The Roman Empire used barbarians to protect their borders

      That is all
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    • New

      JimMorr wrote:

      Nothing in Background suggests VS managed to rebuilt their empire or that they have an advanced technology. Wouldn't be surprised if all our darkshard powered marvels were relics of the past patched so many times that their creators would have problems recognizing them.
      "Praise to thy Omniratissiah for all the marvels he left to us!

      Oh! That machine has squeaky wheels... let's anoint it with the sacred oil and say calming invocations to soften its spirit. " :P
      Armies:


      • Orcs & Goblins
      • Kingdom of Breton.. ah! I mean Equitaine! ;)
    • New

      I wish to say something about the language.

      1 to me is not important
      2 it cannot be right that the rat language become more and more different languages. Why? See point 3.

      3 the empire was not a melting pot of races, at least not rats with someone else. Rats where an elite, the proof is that Sunna was a leader of a specifics tribes that still resist with their costumes and uses after more than 1000 years of rats rule and her armies arrives to Avras and fought the rats army with no mention of other auxiliaries...they can still recognize the rats. The Rats empire remimds me the Goths situation in Italy, an elite that try to remain an elite. No mixing languages or costumes.

      4 is more than possible that some Rats dictionary become part of usual words in other languages. (Like: Wald, a goth germanic word that become Gualdo in italian (means wood, forest).

      5 all the points before are useless if the rats spoke old Avrasian, already knows to all the people of Vetia.


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    • New

      Again, rats are very vocal. They make a ton of different sounds, with different meanins. In additon to body language and smell.
      Aspera tum positis mitescent saecula bellis;
      cana Fides, et Vesta, Remo cum fratre Quirinus,
      iura dabunt; dirae ferro et compagibus artis
      claudentur Belli portae; Furor impius intus,
      295saeva sedens super arma, et centum vinctus aenis
      post tergum nodis, fremet horridus ore cruento.”