What the crud happened to clan leader?

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  • What the crud happened to clan leader?

    Most of you probably don’t remember this but Thanes used to be able to take a upgrade called clan leader that allowed Clan warriors to FIER. It was priced really badly and therefore never taken and could not be taken with a bsb. It sure would be nice to see that option return and give more reason to run warriors and to run combat thanes.

    Come to think of it a lot of the initial character design has been stripped away leaving fairly bland stand-there-dude characters. The master engineer of old could give +1 to hit, wound reeolls, or additional 6” range... the +1 to hit was found to be problematic with s5 ap1 forge wardens which are now nerfed to oblivion and yet all 3 of those ME options were also taken away and engineers are rarely taken.

    We also used to have tiers of seeker characters and that was kind of cool.

    I dunno I think some of those early design iterations had promise and were nerfed or combos were nerfed in paralleled leading to some kinda bland entries. Let’s revisit soon ya?
    8=D
    @Dan 's Roomate
    Epic Poster
    8,000th and 9,000th forum member
  • Fnarrr wrote:

    Clan leader was a bit naff because it was uncombine-able with a BSB :/

    We tried to bring back some of the cool via the runic system, there was little reason to go heavy on the mundane upgrades for same/similar effects.

    I think book is frozen until full redo now design-wise. Holding out some hope FWs go to S4, but it looks unlikely.

    When is our book re-do? I've seen one of the last ones? Is there an order of re-works available?
  • Fnarrr wrote:

    Clan leader was a bit naff because it was uncombine-able with a BSB :/

    We tried to bring back some of the cool via the runic system, there was little reason to go heavy on the mundane upgrades for same/similar effects.

    I think book is frozen until full redo now design-wise. Holding out some hope FWs go to S4, but it looks unlikely.
    Sorry for the off-topic.

    So our army in the next draft would be the same as current one except perhaps the increasement in the strenght of FWs. Any other change?
  • gerardo9 wrote:

    Fnarrr wrote:

    Clan leader was a bit naff because it was uncombine-able with a BSB :/

    We tried to bring back some of the cool via the runic system, there was little reason to go heavy on the mundane upgrades for same/similar effects.

    I think book is frozen until full redo now design-wise. Holding out some hope FWs go to S4, but it looks unlikely.
    Sorry for the off-topic.
    So our army in the next draft would be the same as current one except perhaps the increasement in the strenght of FWs. Any other change?

    Point increases to copters, vengeance seekers and miners.
  • Its worth noting I'm not staff, so take this with HUGE piles of salt - its based on snippets of conversation and advisory work I've done:

    The DH book performs average externally, there are no high-importance issues in that area.
    Its also got one of the best internal balance environments - yes, we know there's a dud here and there, but relative to other books its in a good place.

    As such, there isn't a lot of changes coming. I think FW are just getting a price cut rather than a small design tweak, which is unfortunate; but frankly at the point where they start costing less than miners + shield + TW I think we'll start seeing some fringe use even in their current iteration. For better or worse, they are meta-contingent.

    There will be some minor price tweaks in the 205 gold release, my personal belief based on a couple observations is that it will be mostly cuts to underperformers (because the external balance is fine) and very small ones at that (because internal balance is also mostly fine).


    Regarding eroding gains and overall army performance - the stats have DH solidly in or just below middle, on the 'performance plataeu'.

    The issue the army traditionally has had, where its lacking at the high tables, is still there - but the cutoff for what is 'high' has gotten smaller than before. We're talking at above the average ETC level, so those people on teams in the top 10ish countries and the other players on their skill level scattered around - so about 2% ish of the gamers.
    This is offset by DH doing slightly better a bit lower down, so overall they end up in the middle.

    This basically means that unlike the last piece of work on DH we were doing just before I joined BT where DH were under performing pretty much everywhere from mid tables upward at your average event, just flat buffs are not the appropriate tool anymore. The learning-performance curve for DH is a little flatter than desired, which means buffs for the high-end (read: tricksy stuff) while also taking away some crutches and having the newbies fail more. Its a much harder job than what we had to do before, and its unlikely to be touched before a FAB rework. A FAB rework which is likely to upset more of its playerbase than it makes happy if it follows its design brief, as the 98% should see it as a slight nerf...


    In summary:

    DH looking good externally for 98% of playerbase,
    DH looking good internally barring a handful of discrepancies,
    Some very minor tweaks to address the latter likely incoming,
    No big changes planned for anytime soon.
    Hristo Nikolov
  • In comparison to what right now happening on WODG side, DH book feels almost perfect. IMHO - the have the place right in the middle meanst that DH is most balanced (for good or worst) of them all. It is stable without spikes of over/underperformance (except FW). Only Engineer need so love and everything going to be ok with us. At least we do not have completely dead entries.
    DH - main
    WODG - secondary
    OK - passion project for the future
  • Happy Aspid wrote:

    In comparison to what right now happening on WODG side, DH book feels almost perfect. IMHO - the have the place right in the middle meanst that DH is most balanced (for good or worst) of them all. It is stable without spikes of over/underperformance (except FW). Only Engineer need so love and everything going to be ok with us. At least we do not have completely dead entries.
    That is so awesome to hear, considering DH is yet to receive its FAB.
    Or was the WotDG book in a way worse state before the FAB?
    Booooooaaaaaarsssss .... Chaaaaaaaaaaaaaarge !!!
  • Pellegrim wrote:

    Happy Aspid wrote:

    In comparison to what right now happening on WODG side, DH book feels almost perfect. IMHO - the have the place right in the middle meanst that DH is most balanced (for good or worst) of them all. It is stable without spikes of over/underperformance (except FW). Only Engineer need so love and everything going to be ok with us. At least we do not have completely dead entries.
    That is so awesome to hear, considering DH is yet to receive its FAB.Or was the WotDG book in a way worse state before the FAB?
    I don't want to spread misinformation (so it is my impression according to own experience and people talking on forum), but right now WODG book have one of the worst internal balances possible. Usually only following units see play (present in almost all games) - Exalted herald, Sorcerer, Warriors, Chosen, Chosen Knights, hounds (this allow book to be relatively competitive). Everything else is either extremely unpopular or not being played at all. According ETC results at least 30% of the book (without weapon options) was not present at all. We were told that in the next patch there are great plans to make everything outside of above mentioned entries more viable. So in comparison to WODG dwarves are extremelly balanced both externally and internally.
    DH - main
    WODG - secondary
    OK - passion project for the future